Heater matrix pressure rating and more cooling discussion

Hi guys,

Once I've limped back home with the busted EBP (the main EWP is fine btw, just a blown fuse) then my next avenue of investigation will be increasing coolant pressure at the block by the addition of a flow restrictor in the upper rad hose. Not a big one, just enough to persuade some more coolant to go round the heater circuit. This theory is pretty well described here. And to quote the article:

The theory is not a new one as some Audi's and Fords came with restrictors in their heater hoses to increase the efficiency of the heaters. Some would replace their hoses and forget to swap over the restrictor and wonder why their heater didn't work as well anymore.

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This article has caused a few ****storms on other forums (I don't think it's possible to fully articulate how widely I've been reading in relation to my cooling endeavors) but all of them are using belt driven systems which I don't have to worry about as mine is betterer.

I just want to make sure that any additional back pressure isn't going to blow out the heater matrix as is the worry among some classic car boffins. I imagine being more modern it would be ok but I thought I should check.

The last time that we experimented with a restrictor, my EWP temp sensor was still badly out of calibration so we got weird results. However now that this issue has been eliminated we can try again and see what happens.

but the good news is that an £80 EBP won't help your heater problems, so at this point you still only need the EWP kit at a minimum. Took one for the team there eh .

I hope everyone had a nice xmas day

Will.

If the flow restrictor is adjustable, it's use will be efficient as it can be tuned.

The theory is sound

Merry Xmas to you and yours too

Freelaner said:

If the flow restrictor is adjustable, it's use will be efficient as it can be tuned.

The theory is sound

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Yeh I thought that, though it will probably have a "band of usefulness" with poor performance at each end - which is incidentally the major malfunction on alot other forums, some people just can't their heads around the fact that the heat exchange is not linear, it's probably broadly parabolic but no pump exists that could take it to the extreme end without everything exploding.

Too many arguments, not enough evidence either way. I know DC did a bunch of lab testing on flow rates which is why they say that EWP80 is fine up to 3ltr as that's all you'll usefully need.

My worry is that I don't want too much heater bias in the system and I have no way to measure it.

Just been reading and it seems that all electric pumps really hate back pressure and are likely to fail. So this might not work either .

I'm feeling pretty defeated now, I think this failure was a bridge too far, I think I may have to go back to the stock setup and cut my losses .

i must say that, while being an admirable venture, it would have to engineered to the n'th degree to be effective.

my updated but stock system works very well and the heater is extremely hot when it's up to temp.


a pump would be handy on this system to continue the flow of coolant around the system after switch off to disperse hot and cold areas.

Freelaner said:

i must say that, while being an admirable venture, it would have to engineered to the n'th degree to be effective.

my updated but stock system works very well and the heater is extremely hot when it's up to temp.


a pump would be handy on this system to continue the flow of coolant around the system after switch off to disperse hot and cold areas.

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Yes I think you're right, I'm glad I did it as I learned alot but this really is its last chance. I'm going to call MAW tomorrow and pray that they're open, with any luck I can get the controller replaced by friday and limp home as best I can. If it fails mid way then I'm going to gut the whole thing and put it back stock. If it works ok then I'm going try adding a little back pressure and see if that works. If it does then I will keep it, but one more failure and everything comes out.

In the mean time I'm stuck by myself in my parents house as they've all ****ed off to see other people. I'm pretty annoyed and very bored. Kinda makes me want to get a Jap car .

WLJayne said:

Yes I think you're right, I'm glad I did it as I learned alot but this really is its last chance. I'm going to call MAW tomorrow and pray that they're open, with any luck I can get the controller replaced by friday and limp home as best I can. If it fails mid way then I'm going to gut the whole thing and put it back stock. If it works ok then I'm going try adding a little back pressure and see if that works. If it does then I will keep it, but one more failure and everything comes out.

In the mean time I'm stuck by myself in my parents house as they've all ****ed off to see other people. I'm pretty annoyed and very bored. Kinda makes me want to get a Jap car .

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Noooo! nothing is that bad - I know I go on about Kia's and warranties but I never gonna buy one. Turn up the central heating, Pour a drink, put the telly on!

DD3 said:

Noooo! nothing is that bad - I know I go on about Kia's and warranties but I never gonna buy one. Turn up the central heating, Pour a drink, put the telly on!

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Way ahead of you mate .

Right guys, here's what I'm thinking for the updated system as DC and MAW have said they'll look into replacement parts for me when I can send the busted ones back. How does this system look? Any obvious flaws?

Oh and if anyone is wonder why there is a restrictor in the expansion tank hose, it's there for two reasons:

1. To encourage flow from the heater down through the IRD cooler - path of least resistance and all that.
2. As the jiggle valve is now always open (being sucked instead of pressured with new pump location) there will be a constant flow of coolant from the rad bleed hose through the bottle and then down again, the restrictor help to prevent this from getting too violent and putting froth into the system.

The reason that there was air getting into the system before I connected the jiggle valve to the expansion hose was that the EBP was sucking air into the head through the jiggle valve. Now there will always be coolant behind it, I just don't want too much going through it so a restrictor will make the coolant flow through less resistive hose circuits........hopefully.

Something comes to mind which won't help the heater. The IRD cooler has a lower flow rate than the heater matrix so will reduce heater temperature.

Nodge68 said:

Something comes to mind which won't help the heater. The IRD cooler has a lower flow rate than the heater matrix so will reduce heater temperature.

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Hmm interesting point. Take a look at what this guy did and see what you think, makes sense to me :

Fixes to the Freelander

Try your way. If you don't get the results you are after then plumb the heater and IRD in parallel which would put more water through the heater with a lesser amount going through the IRD cooler.

Not sure if that is a good thing to do tbh

Nodge68 said:

Try your way. If you don't get the results you are after then plumb the heater and IRD in parallel which would put more water through the heater with a lesser amount going through the IRD cooler.

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Freelaner said:

Not sure if that is a good thing to do tbh

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I think you guys are right, both circuits should get plenty of flow thanks to the EBP. Because the controller rarely sent 9v down to the pumps the EBP didn't spin up much, but when it did the heater was toasty in seconds.

An added benefit of having the indipendent EBP is that it will clear a little water out of the head during pulsed warmup, which will totally prevent hot spots if indeed there are any to begin with which I doubt.

Basically, I think we snarfed up with wiring the two pumps on the same system. Once that error is corrected I think it'll be a great system. Steve at MAW is very confident that these systems are reliable when they're happy, so here's hoping . I've ordered a T piece to connect the expansion tank hose to the heater return, and also some 15mm ali road for neat blanks. I also found some nice 15mm OD/ 5mm ID ali tube to use as a flow restrictor in the expansion tank hose to make sure there isn't much flow around that circuit. If this works we should see a steady flow of coolant going into the bottle from the top bleed but not so much as to back up or froth in the bottle.

We're close!!

Will.

Encouraging results, the theory is still sound.

I'm looking forward to you enjoying a reliable Freelander with a toasty hot heater

Nodge68 said:

I'm looking forward to you enjoying a reliable Freelander with a toasty hot heater

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Yeh me too mate . I've sworn off any more mods until I have 5000 trouble free miles on the new cooling system. I have to be sure that it's sorted before considering engine transplants or suspension lifts.

WLJayne said:

Yeh me too mate . I've sworn off any more mods until I have 5000 trouble free miles on the new cooling system. I have to be sure that it's sorted before considering engine transplants or suspension lifts.

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Absolutely. I want to convert my V6 to a manual gearbox but I like you need to make sure the engine is going to stay working without popping HG's every few thousand miles first!!