Head gasket failure? Help

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ukcommsprepper

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Stourbridge
Hi, I have a 1999 TD5 Discovery Auto 10p.
I recently had loads of work done at an independent Landrover Specialist (APB Trading) all hoses checked and no other obvious leaks.
The expansion tank overflow is leaking more and the coolant cap makes a hissing noise when I open it, that’s when it’s been standing overnight, and the top hose is really hard instead of squishy. I gave it a 70 mile run and the coolant tank was empty.
The garage suspect a head gasket failure, but said the can’t be 100% without taking it apart, they gave me an estimate of how much a remanufactured head would be and it’s way more than I can afford at the moment.
I’ve read in different forums that I could have it skimmed and have the original plastic dowels replace with bolts, would this be cheaper and possibly fix it, I’ve been told that I could use steel seal as a last resort, but I’m trying all my options first, everyone keeps telling me to sell it, but I’ve spent thousands getting it working....any help, advice, people that can do it (West Midlands) ..appreciated.

Matt
 
The garage should be able to confirm if it is a cylinder head problem without stripping the engine by doing pressure / sniff tests, they won't be able to confirm whether it is just the head gasket or a cracked head though until the engine is stripped. I assume they have ruled out any external water leaks? No you don't replace the plastic dowels with bolts. The plastic dowels were replaced in later engines with steel ones but not all early engines can have the steel dowels retrofitted.
Using steel seal is a ridiculous suggestion for curing a head gasket problem.
 
Like said, early models could not take steel dowels. There are several things you can do before replacing the HG. Take Sierrafery suggestion on board - replace the cap with a genuine one and bleed the system thoroughly. Also, what I found by accident is that the engine runs hotter if either the MAF or the temperature sensors are faulty. This in turn would cause the coolant to reach higher temps and leak. At least, that was the case with mine and changing both stopped the loss of coolant. Don't bother with BP sensors here either - they are not calibrated properly and you will end up changing them ! I suppose EGR blanking will also cause the engine to run at higher temps due to the increased volume of combustible air. Don't quote me on this however because mine isn't blanked so I can't be sure.
 
ukcommsprepper said:
Hi, I have a 1999 TD5 Discovery Auto 10p.
I recently had loads of work done at an independent Landrover Specialist (APB Trading) all hoses checked and no other obvious leaks.
The expansion tank overflow is leaking more and the coolant cap makes a hissing noise when I open it, that’s when it’s been standing overnight, and the top hose is really hard instead of squishy. I gave it a 70 mile run and the coolant tank was empty.
The garage suspect a head gasket failure, but said the can’t be 100% without taking it apart, they gave me an estimate of how much a remanufactured head would be and it’s way more than I can afford at the moment.
I’ve read in different forums that I could have it skimmed and have the original plastic dowels replace with bolts, would this be cheaper and possibly fix it, I’ve been told that I could use steel seal as a last resort, but I’m trying all my options first, everyone keeps telling me to sell it, but I’ve spent thousands getting it working....any help, advice, people that can do it (West Midlands) ..appreciated.

Matt
Click to expand...
The bad news is, it is highly likely to be HG failure, having experienced two myself on both D2's I've owned at roughly the same mileage. All the symptoms you describe. The good news is, both were repaired, the heads being skimmed and a new gasket installed. Talking to my local landy repair man who did the last one recently, he said in his experience, the 10p engines (which yours is) rarely get cracked heads unless they have overheated and been driven for some time afterwards. Apparently the later 15p engines are more prone to it. It's usually simply the gasket coming to the end of its life, in part due to the plastic dowels and can happen to even the most meticulously maintained engines. Anyway he did my head gasket all in for about £550, including skimming. Whilst that stings a bit, it's not as bad as a new/recon head...
 
Bobdog said:
...in part due to the plastic dowels and can happen to even the most meticulously maintained engines....
Click to expand...
just my opinnion but the dowels can't be blamed for HG failure whatsoever cos theyrs purpose ends when the head is once properly torqued up as in the book cos after that they can even melt or vanish ... and don't forget what the engine builder recommends though cos that steel dowel hysteria can go wrong in some cases... read carefully the "CAUTION" under the secong paragraph of the following bulletin https://www.lrukforums.com/attachments/head-dowel-pdf.110679/

the head on mine was removed and fitted a new AMC head as the old one had a crack through the first inlet port... i respected the bulletin and got fitted plastic dowels as recommended and no probs since then, around 30K miles ago
 
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sierrafery said:
just my opinnion but the dowels can't be blamed for HG failure whatsoever cos theyrs purpose ends when the head is once properly torqued up as in the book cops after that they can even melt or vanish ... and don't forget what the engine builder recommends though cos that steel dowel hysteria can go wrong in some cases... read carefully the "CAUTION" under the secong paragraph of the following bulletin https://www.lrukforums.com/attachments/head-dowel-pdf.110679/
Click to expand...
exactly dowels arent an issue
 
sierrafery said:
just my opinnion but the dowels can't be blamed for HG failure whatsoever cos theyrs purpose ends when the head is once properly torqued up as in the book cos after that they can even melt or vanish ... and don't forget what the engine builder recommends though cos that steel dowel hysteria can go wrong in some cases... read carefully the "CAUTION" under the secong paragraph of the following bulletin https://www.lrukforums.com/attachments/head-dowel-pdf.110679/

the head on mine was removed and fitted a new AMC head as the old one had a crack through the first inlet port... i respected the bulletin and got fitted plastic dowels as recommended and no probs since then, around 30K miles ago
Click to expand...
That's why I said "in part" because in some cases, once the head gasket is coming to the end of its life, it can allow sideways movement of the head, accelerating the demise of the gasket and possibly allowing damage to the head/valves etc.
If plastic dowels are not an issue and serve no purpose other than to locate the head when fitting, why did Land Rover recommend retro-fitting steel ones * at all?

* to some engines originally fitted with plastic ones (in case I get arrested by the pedantic police...)
 
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Bobdog said:
If plastic dowels are not an issue and serve no purpose other than to locate the head when fitting, why did Land Rover recommend retro-fitting steel ones * at all?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately i can't answer to that but reading the whole thread from the beginning shows me that it's not the case here as the OP's vehicle is '99 (10P engine) which is certainly not within the VIN range of that bulletin cos
AFFECTED RANGE:
All Td5 derivatives within VIN ranges:
Discovery Series II
(02 Model Year)
2A 736340 to 3A 793895
are 15P engines also i'm confident(as confirmed by jamesmartin too) that the dowels can't be the cause of a HG failure as long as the head was torqued correctly not even in some cases so for the vehicle which is the subject of this thread that "Caution" is important which means that steel dowels are not recommended as the head can crack and my reply was to warn 10P engine owners to not risk to fit steel dowels just like that even if others did it without any issues(so far) not knowing or simply neglecting the content of that technical bulletin :cool:
 
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Thanks for the responses
I was going to use some steel seal as a last resort, everywhere always seems so expensive. If I use a head gasket seal, can I still have it repaired at a later date or will the sealant mess the engine up?

Matt
 
ukcommsprepper said:
Thanks for the responses
I was going to use some steel seal as a last resort, everywhere always seems so expensive. If I use a head gasket seal, can I still have it repaired at a later date or will the sealant mess the engine up?

Matt
Click to expand...
Don't waste your money mate, steel seal etc will likely stop a coolant to air leak in a head gasket but not a cylinder to coolant leak.

Shop around and find a decent landy specialist who won't charge a fortune.
 
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