Has anyone ever thought about putting an electric motor in a series

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Hello,
Yes, I looked in to it several times and got in to some discusions with suppliers but the cost was too great for me at present. There is several videos on Youtube about a Australian owner who converted a series lightweight and said it was the same as a V8 in power terms. If the cost comes down then I would love to convert my landy.
 
There are quite a few, once you do the searches. There seem to be 3 ways of doing it:
The best - buy a crashed Tesla and get the motor, controller and batteries. Everyone seems to agree they are the best, but for the same reason competition and prices are high. Think £25000 up for used parts
The hardest - make it all yourself, buy bulk 18650 cells and make your own pack. People do do this, there's a guy who bought round 10,000 used laptop battery packs and picked the best 1000 or so cells and made his own pack. Cost next to nothing but took about a year! Interestingly he found the cheapest packs were best, they had both the worst and best cells, the premium packs had less bad cells but never had exceptionally good ones because they held them back for mil spec packs. Bear in mind every set of cells has its own controller so there's a lot of cicuits to make.
The easiest - buy a scrap forklift and fit the battery pack and motor in and you get the charger too. This is how the S1 was done. You'll get 45 mph tops and about 30 miles range but all in it will cost under £1000 so if you want a runabout or fun off roader that gets trailered there its OK.
 
I'd have a go at it. The main problem is a suitable motor at a sensible price- fork lifts and milk floats don't quite have the power. Plenty of room for batteries though.
Land Rover themselves did a few EV Defenders as a technology demonstrator a few years ago now. If I remember right it was a case of motor where the gearbox was, and batteries filling the engine bay, fuel tank space and some either side. Cabin heating was done with a diesel-fired heater! At least you could run that on red.
 
saxavordian said:
Aren't the modern ones EV driven from individual wheel motors via computers instead of one large motor. o_O
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Generally, no. It's easier and simpler to just have one motor driving a diff. Tesla and Jaguar four-wheel drive EVs do use two motors, one for each axle. Tesla use different gear ratios for the front and rear motors so there is a bit of flexibility in shuffling power around to improve efficiency. But there's nothing to stop you doing four-wheel drive through an ordinary transfer box, and it gives you the same high/low range options.

The problem with individual motors is complexity. You have to find space for twice the amount of motors, controllers for each of them, and co-ordinate them so they produce the same output from left to right. Otherwise you get unusual torque steer effects, whereas going through a plain old differential gives you an even torque output.
 
The benfit of converting a series is:
No need for a vacuum as you can run non servo brakes
Ready made 2 speed - bolt motor to transfer case
Low electrical loads - no tech to power
Strong springs
But its still going to come in at £2-30k depending on power and range. 2k gets you the fork lift - 30hp and 30miles, 30k gets you 200hp and 200 miles.
I've been researching it and if a non-runner SWB came my way I'd do a fork lift conversion (reversible) for local trips.
For long trips I'd put my name down for the Cybertruck (when we finally get it or the smaller version), 1 its 1000x more cool and 2 it will be unbeatable on price because Tesla will tool up for an intial run of 1M
Look at the spec and pricing, Tesla are planning to take up to 50% of the 1m annual truck sales in the US and at a price about the same as converting a classic its going to be unbeatable
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla...rtruck-unlikely-come-uk-smaller-version-could
 
I wonder whether two forklift motors could be connected up to the transfer box- the second driving into the PTO output. Two motors working in tandem like that gives you a more respectable 60hp or so. Then cram in as many batteries as possible!
 
FlyingPete said:
I wonder whether two forklift motors could be connected up to the transfer box- the second driving into the PTO output. Two motors working in tandem like that gives you a more respectable 60hp or so. Then cram in as many batteries as possible!
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I think you should look into how an electric car works.
The motors need to drive the wheels direct, or as near direct as possible. There is not enough power to squander on the mechanical losses associated with gearboxes. And there is no need of gearboxes, or transfer boxes, as the motor produces the same torque throughout the rev range.
A single motor, driving the propshaft direct, would be the only practical way to do this.
 
The DIY sereis conversions do use a single motor driving into the transfer box, I think there may be several reasons - they use DC brushed motors so the rev range may be limited so 2 gears helps match motor profile to the speed, and it gives you 4WD, its also keeps the motor out the water for off roading. Putting the motor on the prop wil only give 2WD, and if you go down that route the motor should go on the axle, as it does with many electric cars unless you fit 2 motors. The motor HP on the for lift motors is as much about voltage and battery but if you do the fork lift type you are stuck with what charger comes with it.
 
Turboman said:
I think you should look into how an electric car works.
The motors need to drive the wheels direct, or as near direct as possible. There is not enough power to squander on the mechanical losses associated with gearboxes. And there is no need of gearboxes, or transfer boxes, as the motor produces the same torque throughout the rev range.
Click to expand...

I know these things ;)

You generally have maximum torque in the lower part of the rpm range, then torque drops off as speed increases when you hit the peak power range. On an ordinary car, one gear is indeed all you need. But that one gear is a compromise between low end starting torque and top speed. On a Landy, having low range is still an advantage as it gives a higher wheel torque when driving off road, without sacrificing top end. Land Rover themselves did this on their conversions. The main gearbox isn't normally needed though.
 
FlyingPete said:
I know these things ;)

You generally have maximum torque in the lower part of the rpm range, then torque drops off as speed increases when you hit the peak power range. On an ordinary car, one gear is indeed all you need. But that one gear is a compromise between low end starting torque and top speed. On a Landy, having low range is still an advantage as it gives a higher wheel torque when driving off road, without sacrificing top end. Land Rover themselves did this on their conversions. The main gearbox isn't normally needed though.
Click to expand...
If Land Rover do something, that is usually a sign that it is worth avoiding! :D

I think if I was going to build an electric Series, I would probably do away with 4wd altogether, and modify the rear axle casing to incorporate an electric motor. and then load the under bonnet and the space where the transmission would have been with batteries, thus leaving the existing load space, and keeping the weight low.

There is some precedent for this, there are companies that build electric classics, usually on prestige cars, like Lamborghini Countachs.
They are very expensive, and usually driven by celebs and tech heads in California and Monaco. But they do have good performance, and retain the outer appearance of the original vehicle.

Apparently, this causes outrage on Twitter among classic car buffs, but that adds to the amusement! :)
 
I was working on the control strategy a few years ago for a "through the road" HEV. Engine drives the rear axle as normal, front axle is driven directly by an electric motor. Optionally you have a second motor driving into the front end of the engine, which allows power to be transferred from the engine to the front axle when 4WD is needed and the batteries are running low. The downside as with any HEV is your battery space is still taken up by a large and heavy engine!

You might cause double the outrage among some- electric and 2WD only? Better run for cover!
 
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