Happy Valley Wales

James R · Sep 23, 2009

Tim.C said:
I'm also a 'rambler' as well as a landy driver (and I have a mountain bike for that matter)
They are not all ill informed rabble.

Of course there is a minority of idiots in all groups..

Yes, fair enough.

Tim.C said:
The point people are trying to make is that 18 in a row IS an inconvenience and trouble..

Tough. It's a mild inconvenience at worst. If that's all you have to worry about then life must be pretty good.

Tim.C said:
Maybe the reason you didn't see any walkers is that they have given up using that path because of all the vehicles. Have you considered that?

Well, geez Tim, no, I didn't. Or, on the other hand, maybe they were just walking away from the road in the other 500,000 hectares of available land where I am not allowed to drive. Did YOU think about that?

Widget · Sep 23, 2009

Griffdowg said:
They do what most of us do, plan the route and go drive it... with you in tow. Yes they have done the route, again like most of us, we know the routes and plan accordingly.

That's a business plan that is :5bcheers2:

goonarmy · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
Sadly not, Goon. You're still confused and not listening to anyone other than your internet mates. People get stuck in green lanes you know? It happens, especially if that person is a novice, in which case they'd need an instructor wouldn't they? I can't imagine that everyone has the giddy heights of your abilities in a Land Rover, Goon!

Jimbob ya letting ya self down now.You are being told.If you dont respect the people that are giving the advice at least repect the volume of for and against.Unless ya trolling.
People get stuck in green lanes-true.They should not-also true!Anyone gettibng stuck and ripping the surface can be given a section (i think)
59, at the time or retrospectively.Do it again and plod will squash ya mota and turn it to bean cans.

James R said:
Tough. It's a mild inconvenience at worst. If that's all you have to worry about then life must be pretty good.

Well, geez Tim, no, I didn't. Or, on the other hand, maybe they were just walking away from the road in the other 500,000 hectares of available land where I am not allowed to drive. Did YOU think about that?

Very inconsiderate, however im not surpised.
Where can hikers walk then?Do they have free acces to all land?No.Sadly not.
You are a plonker.

nathan5346 · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
Red skoi at noit...GET OFF MY LAND! Oooh aaahr! I've got 40 acres and you've got 23! Oooh Ahhr!

Now thats showing your mentality..
For anyone to join a forum and conduct yourself as you have may give some people the idea your a tw@ but when most people think your tw@ thats telling you something, If you dont like or agree with peoples opinions on l/z or even accept sometimes maybe only sometimes you may be wrong about something **** off somewhere else... Simple

James R · Sep 23, 2009

goonarmy said:
Jimbob ya letting ya self down now.You are being told.If you dont respect the people that are giving the advice at least repect the volume of for and against.Unless ya trolling.
People get stuck in green lanes-true.They should not-also true!Anyone gettibng stuck and ripping the surface can be given a section (i think)
59, at the time or retrospectively.Do it again and plod will squash ya mota and turn it to bean cans.

Very inconsiderate, however im not surpised.
Where can hikers walk then?Do they have free acces to all land?No.Sadly not.
You are a plonker.

Ah there we are...never afraid to dish out the personal stuff when it suits you, yet I am the troll. I wondered how long it would be before that one was brought out.

Listen to me Goon because you are being told. Pin back those lug-holes, here it comes!

Point 1 : NO ONE CAUSED ANY DAMAGE!
Point 2 : Those nasty hikers were walking all over the farmers' private land. I'm going to report them for trespass. They MUST stick to the road.

There. See now?

James R · Sep 23, 2009

nathan5346 said:
Now thats showing your mentality..
For anyone to join a forum and conduct yourself as you have may give some people the idea your a tw@ but when most people think your tw@ thats telling you something, If you dont like or agree with peoples opinions on l/z or even accept sometimes maybe only sometimes you may be wrong about something **** off somewhere else... Simples :d

No sir. That's not showing my mentality, that's showing a sense of humour that you don't possess. Perhaps if you learnt how to write English properly too? Thanks for your rudeness though. The last resort of a weak mind. Man, this forum is friendly.

nathan5346 · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
No sir. That's not showing my mentality, that's showing a sense of humour that you don't possess. Perhaps if you learnt how to write English properly too? Thanks for your rudeness though. The last resort of a weak mind. Man, this forum is friendly.

Weak mind my arse.
You obviously have nothing better to do, I however do.

James R · Sep 23, 2009

nathan5346 said:
Weak mind my arse.
You obviously have nothing better to do, I however do.

Good man. Perhaps you could go off and do it then?

Griffdowg · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
Yes, Griffy, and I will direct your potential customers to this thread.

Dont bother James. If they are anything like yourself, I dont want them on my trip. I would want reliable, responsible people who have some knowledge of what they are doing/how their vehicle operates and are self sufficient in recovery techniques.

It would be a niche market venture targeting people's specific requirements. Routes have all ready been "Reccee'd" for North Africa, Western Alps, Wales and the North of England. It wont be "1st come, 1st serve", more of a selection process to ensure the group as a whole get the most out of it, each with the same/similar goals. Ie: no challenge truck 90's in the same group as familys in freelanders and disco's.

I have actually spoken to a Protrax instructor on the Bilbao ferry and found out some interesting stuff. I wont repeat it here for legal reasons, but read what your signing.

G

James R · Sep 23, 2009

Griffdowg said:
I would want reliable, responsible people who have some knowledge of what they are doing/how their vehicle operates and are self sufficient in recovery techniques.G

I wonder, Griff, if your customers would appreciate how you've conducted yourself in this thread. I'm not sure that everyone warms to the know-it-all, snappy, I-know-best attitude. I can't really say any more than I have which is to state that Protrax acted with professionalism and within the boundaries of what is socially respectable and also the law. They were actually concerned for their reputation and that of LRO who sponsored the event.

Recovery techniques? Someone said in an earlier post that you shouldn't get stuck so what would they be needed for? Silly debate, isn't it?

Griffdowg · Sep 23, 2009

Im sure they would be happy to be looked after with their best interests at the forefront/reason of the trip. I dont claim to know it all or know best. I try to employ generally accepted best practice techinques with what I do, for example, a maximum of 6 vehicles at one time on lanes (Glass recommendations)

My point about self sufficiency and basic recovery techinques/practice applies to overseas trips and not lanes in the UK.

It is silly yes, because you were comparing 2 different events at 2 seperate points in time, which is completely unjustified. It just does not mesh.

Widget · Sep 23, 2009

goonarmy said:
Where can hikers walk then?Do they have free acces to all land?

Well, not everywhere, but Happy Valley is in open access Land; since 2005 and CROW Act it is an area where bobblies can exercise the right to roam. They have no need to walk on the road - but because it is a ROAD they like walking on them cos they're level and don't have dangerous tufts of nasty grass which can hurt their footsies

Group sizes
Not tricky this one, but the issue with group size is impact on other recreational users and passing other vehicles. 12 cars meeting another 12 on lanes can be chaos - with the chance that a large number of vehilces will have to drive off the road to pass, which brings me on to...

Section 59:
Where an police officer has reasonable grounds* for believing that a motor vehicle is being driven off the road and also the manner of use of the vehicle is causing or has been causing or is likely to cause, alarm distress or annoyance** to members of the public, you can be issued with a section 59 notice can be used to initially give a written warning (valid for twelve months) and if you do it again, to confiscate your car.

*reasonable grounds = a walker, responsible green laner or landowner clocking you, or a video on youtube. A rozzer does not have to be present. The Ramblers Assoc. issue advice on how and when to report drivers to the police in line with section 59.

**Annoyance can include the impact of large group of vehicles, noisy exhausts, winching, or simple a dislike of knobbly tyres kicking up mud and my pet hate - orange off roaders. They annoy me - which is entirely subjective, but that's section 59 for ya.

Paul D · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
My £110 means that an instructor surveys these trails before I get there so that I know I am not going to get stuck

So how come the post I highlighted as being a report on the exact same 'Wild Wales' trip had so many recovery situations?

I presume they paid the same money .. indeed they did, it's in the thread ..

So are you suggesting that sometimes Protrax get their customers stuck and irretrievable on their own, and that sometimes it all goes OK? Doesn't sound too good a setup to me ... or that it's well led, well equipped and if they're taking money from people to get them stuck then it's tantamount to receiving money under false pretences!

ratty · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
I wonder, Griff, if your customers would appreciate how you've conducted yourself in this thread. I'm not sure that everyone warms to the know-it-all, snappy, I-know-best attitude. I can't really say any more than I have which is to state that Protrax acted with professionalism and within the boundaries of what is socially respectable and also the law. They were actually concerned for their reputation and that of LRO who sponsored the event.

Recovery techniques? Someone said in an earlier post that you shouldn't get stuck so what would they be needed for? Silly debate, isn't it?

The bit in red just sums you up to a T doesn't it. A group of 18 vehicles is not socially respectable. It is good practice and socially respectable to travel in max groups of 5 vehicles. You whole arguement is flawed.

As for expertise an proffesionalism it sounds like a bunch of cowboys out for a quick buck. Why do you think there were so many in a group? It's cos you only make £330 out of 2 guide vehicles leading around 3 other vehicles. With 7 paying vehicles in a group (I'm assuming they had the sense to have a lead vehicle and tail end charlie) they get £770 outta mugs stupid enough to pay.

Just out of curiosity, As you were traveling in an organised group and paying for the privelage, What come back do you get in the event of damaging your vehicle while driving the route with the 'qualified' guides?

What sort of inspection or stipulations did they insist on doing before your trip started?

Widget · Sep 23, 2009

ratty said:
What sort of inspection or stipulations did they insist on doing before your trip started?

And did you read their disclaimer/waiver? :scratching_chin:

There was a trip when Ed Cobley got swamped by water in his white Disco and had to be recovered by the punters. Or the time he showboated and powerslid his 90 on an icy public road. Makes you think doesn't it?

nathan5346 · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
I wonder, Griff, if your customers would appreciate how you've conducted yourself in this thread. I'm not sure that everyone warms to the know-it-all, snappy, I-know-best attitude. I can't really say any more than I have which is to state that Protrax acted with professionalism and within the boundaries of what is socially respectable and also the law. They were actually concerned for their reputation and that of LRO who sponsored the event.

Recovery techniques? Someone said in an earlier post that you shouldn't get stuck so what would they be needed for? Silly debate, isn't it?

Childish i know but i couldnt resist
:kettlepot:

uke2::multiply::dnfnoob::your_wrong::violent::rolly::amen:

James R · Sep 23, 2009

I must say I find this all amazing. Not one of you has actually travelled with Protrax. I'm the only one. How do you know all this? Well, dare I say it, you don't and that is my beef with this thread. There wasn't 18 in our group all travelling at once, there was no damage, no irresponsible behaviour just respect for the countryside, other people using it and a very pleasant weekend in an area I didn't know existed.

Someone allegedly sees 18 cars in one convoy and all of a sudden Protrax are cowboys. Hardly a balanced argument based on experience, is it? Sounds like a load of know-it-alls clubbing together for some gob****ing on an internet forum to me.

James R · Sep 23, 2009

Widget said:
And did you read their disclaimer/waiver? :scratching_chin:

There was a trip when Ed Cobley got swamped by water in his white Disco and had to be recovered by the punters. Or the time he showboated and powerslid his 90 on an icy public road. Makes you think doesn't it?

Indeed I did read the disclaimer. Are you expecting Protrax to reimburse you if you damage your car? I'm not sure what your expectation is here. Naturally I made sure I had greenlaning cover on my own insurance in case something happened.

Ed Cobley got swamped because some farmer dug out a river to prevent people using their Land Rovers to go through it. Even though it's part of a legitimate road, maintained (and repaired) by the council and paid for by you and me. Haven't heard the powerslide one. Did you make it up or were you actually there?

Widget · Sep 23, 2009

James R said:
I must say I find this all amazing. Not one of you has actually travelled with Protrax. I'm the only one.

Are you sure about that? You seem very sure, like many other things.

James R said:
Ed Cobley got swamped because some farmer dug out a river to prevent people using their Land Rovers to go through it.

Not true. He acted like a chump and his Pa told him not to drive through it. The rivers were in torrent. We took a diversion - he thought he knew better. This water is a stream for most of the time.

James R said:
Haven't heard the powerslide one. Did you make it up or were you actually there?

I was there.

90boy · Sep 23, 2009

FFS jim what is your problem nobody on here realy cares what you think or have seen i am not going to sit here and argue with you all night cause i have better things to do once more i know what i saw that day, and you can think what you like mate i still think protrax is not well run, 18 landys will always do more halm than 5 or 6 and **** more people off but protrax dont care and only seem to think about the money they can make says it all realy

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