Grating noise in drivetrain

jonaf · Mar 13, 2013

Today I bought a very cheap 2000 Open Air 1.8. It leaks coolant from the cylinder head joint and it also has a drivetrain noise that is inversely speed related. When moving very slowly the noise is worst and it disappears when the speed rises. It is hard to tell where it comes from but I think it is somewhere in the gearbox/propeller shaft area.
It sounds something like brake pads against a rusty disc but braking does not make the noise change.

Nodge68 · Mar 13, 2013

jonaf said:
Today I bought a very cheap 2000 Open Air 1.8. It leaks coolant from the cylinder head joint and it also has a drivetrain noise that is inversely speed related. When moving very slowly the noise is worst and it disappears when the speed rises. It is hard to tell where it comes from but I think it is somewhere in the gearbox/propeller shaft area.
It sounds something like brake pads against a rusty disc but braking does not make the noise change.

Is there a propshaft and VCU fitted? Is the VCU stiff? If so I would suspect the IRD is on the way out

DD3 · Mar 14, 2013

jonaf said:
Today I bought a very cheap 2000 Open Air 1.8. It leaks coolant from the cylinder head joint and it also has a drivetrain noise that is inversely speed related. When moving very slowly the noise is worst and it disappears when the speed rises. It is hard to tell where it comes from but I think it is somewhere in the gearbox/propeller shaft area.
It sounds something like brake pads against a rusty disc but braking does not make the noise change.

What made you do that?

WLJayne · Mar 14, 2013

Very cheap eh? Prepare to spend alot. Are you a DIY mechanic or one of these nutjobs who owns a Freelander but doesn't do spanners?

jonaf · Mar 14, 2013

WLJayne said:
Very cheap eh? Prepare to spend alot. Are you a DIY mechanic or one of these nutjobs who owns a Freelander but doesn't do spanners?

I am indeed a well experienced DIY mechanic. And I do not intend to spend much money to get this car running sweetly. A new head gasket will set me back some 20 quid and the job will be done in an evening. BTW I intend to fit the new SAIC MLS gasket that comes without a head saver shim.
As soon as I find the source of the noise in the drivetrain I am pretty sure that I will be able to fix that also, even if I should have to rebuild the IRD.
I started this thread to find out if this particular noise is a known symptom so I could be lead directly to the problem.

DD3 · Mar 14, 2013

As an experienced mechanic Jonaf, you surely realise that this transmission related noise is coming from one or all of the much discussed failure points. I would always check wheel bearings but sure you already have. This forum has become about people coming on and expecting rifle shot answers and easy fixes and more of a therapy group. So, you buying another FL1 just seems mad to me

jonaf · Mar 14, 2013

DD3 said:
As an experienced mechanic Jonaf, you surely realise that this transmission related noise is coming from one or all of the much discussed failure points. I would always check wheel bearings but sure you already have. This forum has become about people coming on and expecting rifle shot answers and easy fixes and more of a therapy group. So, you buying another FL1 just seems mad to me

People do all sorts of crazy things for a hobby. I am not one of those who find pleasure in beating a ball with a stick to make drop into a hole in the lawn nor any other silly things that don't have a useful purpose .

My question was addressed to those who might immediately recognize the symptoms I described. When/if I receive that answer I will have a point to start detecting the source of the noise which may come from a number of places.

This is what a technical forum is for, isn't it? When I find the answer, maybe my experience will be useful to somebody else.

matt1295 · Mar 14, 2013

i had a slight grating noise on full lock last week

Monday my ird put a hole in its case and the vcu was stiff then it had made my diff seals go

test the vcu if it still take it off go for a drive see if theres any difference

jonaf · Mar 14, 2013

matt1295 said:
i had a slight grating noise on full lock last week

Monday my ird put a hole in its case and the vcu was stiff then it had made my diff seals go

test the vcu if it still take it off go for a drive see if theres any difference

When turning full lock it is less noisy than straight ahead. The car has rolled less than 90000 km and the VCU seems to work OK. But my first thing to do is to try it with the propshafts removed.

Grayo · Mar 14, 2013

jonaf said:
When turning full lock it is less noisy than straight ahead. The car has rolled less than 90000 km and the VCU seems to work OK. But my first thing to do is to try it with the propshafts removed.

I was going to suggest remove the props to eliminate the bearings. You could also put it up on axle stands then into gear and listen for the noise from below. I have found using a long metal rod with the end placed around variouse suspect places and the other end placed just by your ear will pick up all sorts of noises that should not be there. HTH

jonaf · Mar 16, 2013

It is the front VCU bearing that is shot. The noise was easy to detect with the car lifted and running with second gear engaged.

Grayo · Mar 16, 2013

jonaf said:
It is the front VCU bearing that is shot. The noise was easy to detect with the car lifted and running with second gear engaged.

I'd change the both bearings in that case. It'll save you having to do it again in three months time.

jonaf · Mar 18, 2013

Grayo said:
I'd change the both bearings in that case. It'll save you having to do it again in three months time.

Done

I put in a low friction VCU as well. I have been experimenting with different viscosity fluids and volumes in VCUs earlier and I had one unit that that is very soft. I can't feel it bite even driving in circles at full lock but it still gives plenty of rear wheel drive .

And yes, we have lots of icy roads in Norway to test the 4WD capabilities :cool2:

Grayo · Mar 18, 2013

jonaf said:
Done
I put in a low friction VCU as well. I have been experimenting with different viscosity fluids and volumes in VCUs earlier and I had one unit that that is very soft. I can't feel it bite even driving in circles at full lock but it still gives plenty of rear wheel drive .
And yes, we have lots of icy roads in Norway to test the 4WD capabilities :cool2:

How are you testing the different VCU's ??? are you able to drain the fluid and replace it in the VCU.

jonaf · Mar 18, 2013

Grayo said:
How are you testing the different VCU's ??? are you able to drain the fluid and replace it in the VCU.

To test the torque I bolt the output shaft i a vise and turn the input end with a spanner.
To drain the silicone fluid one has to remove the tiny steel ball plugs on each side of the VCU's body. The holes will then have to be threaded to fit a plug.
The fluid will seep out very slowly so one has to be very patient.
The viscosity and amount of fluid determines the stiffness of the VCU.

Grayo · Mar 18, 2013

jonaf said:
To test the torque I bolt the output shaft i a vise and turn the input end with a spanner.
To drain the silicone fluid one has to remove the tiny steel ball plugs on each side of the VCU's body. The holes will then have to be threaded to fit a plug.
The fluid will seep out very slowly so one has to be very patient.
The viscosity and amount of fluid determines the stiffness of the VCU.

That's very interesting, there was a thread on here last week taliking about this and some saying it could not be done. What is the fluid you use and is it available to buy.

Edit: I think this is the thread below.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/vcu-repair-218217.html

jonaf · Mar 18, 2013

Grayo said:
That's very interesting, there was a thread on here last week taliking about this and some saying it could not be done. What is the fluid you use and is it available to buy.

The fluid is silicone liquid. It comes in a number of viscosities. 10000 - 30000 cst is the range that is suitable for FL VCUs. I bought it from a company in Sweden I don't remember the name of some years ago but I think any supplier of industrial chemical may be able to help.

Grayo · Mar 18, 2013

jonaf said:
The fluid is silicone liquid. It comes in a number of viscosities. 10000 - 30000 cst is the range that is suitable for FL VCUs. I bought it from a company in Sweden I don't remember the name of some years ago but I think any supplier of industrial chemical may be able to help.

Jonaf, Go onto this thread as I'm sure a lot of people will be interested to hear what you are saying.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/vcu-repair-218217.html

teddywood1 · Mar 18, 2013

at last some one else can help us

Grating noise in drivetrain

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