Freelander 2 (LR2) Gearbox / drive issue

Hippo said:

The haldex oil needs changed every 20k miles. Filter and oil every 40k miles.

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I was going on the VW change interval, for the Gen4 Haldex.
VW suggest 40k miles or 3 years, for fluid and filter. This to me seems acceptable, as there are many Haldex units still functioning at 100k + miles, although how I'm not sure.
The filter on mine was very clogged, and although I don't know when the fluid was changed, it can't have been too long before my diff seized. A diff won't last long without any oil in it.

Nodge68 said:

I was going on the VW change interval, for the Gen4 Haldex.
VW suggest 40k miles or 3 years, for fluid and filter. This to me seems acceptable, as there are many Haldex units still functioning at 100k + miles, although how I'm not sure.
The filter on mine was very clogged, and although I don't know when the fluid was changed, it can't have been too long before my diff seized. A diff won't last long without any oil in it.

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It was Austen of bell eng that said oil at 20k miles, oil and filter at 40k miles. It was several years ago on Freel2. Just had a look but I can't find it. They clean up (delete post's/fred's) and join fred's together a lot over there, if they're similar topic's. It could still be there but I missed it. There's concerns over the database size, which is why they also don't like yer quoting in replies often. Keeps the site costs down. Austen doesn't seem to do forums much. Might be because he only gets grief. He's the go to company on Freel2 for most of the long time peeps as he's set himself up to repair/recon/supply them. Bits in the post or service/fix while yer wait. Some travel quite a distance to get him to oil/filter service their haldex. I can understand why. Peace of mind for what could be an annoying repair if it's done wrong or not at all.

I would agree 100k miles is far too long without oil changes and don't know how vehicles can go that far without problems/failure. There's been failures from new at less than 1k miles as well as repeated failures on some vehicles, well within the oil's life time. Replacement units from LR as well as independents. So there's a variation of miles and age factors, across short, long or mixed length distances.

Austen put forward the above based on what he's seen, I would assume. He must have cracked open a lot of failures as well as 'well used still working' units he's servicing. One can only assume his opinion is based on what he has seen from eggsperience. Without a definitive update instruction from LR on what best to do, we're stuck. Austen probably has a feel for the typical condition of haldex's v mileage he see's. So that must give him the insight we need for what's best to do to avoid failure as best we can. Made easy and cost effective as possible for peeps to keep their haldex in good health, and reduce the chance of failure. If we find out in years to come our FL2's don't get to 1 million miles without failure, we'll chase him with pitch forks to find out why.

I don't agree with a lot of the online comments about the haldex/diff issues. LR don't make them. They're bought in items. They will have suffered financial pain and embarrassment for warranty repairs and did offer some financial help to out of warranty repairs if carried out at a main dealer. There does seem to be more haldex failures in LR models when comparing to other vehicle manufacturers which use the same haldex. Some of that could be down to more LR forums and owners on the web complaining. If there was a problem I would have thought the haldex manufacturers would have raised concerns if it was something LR was doing wrong or solved the problem on repaired/future units. I've watched the haldex/diff discussions for many years before getting my FL2. It was a concern and still is. But I think it's a manageable one if we follow Austens advice.

If yer get a whine, drone or rumble from the rear then it should never be ignored. Often the haldex or rear diff crying out for help/repair but it can also be wheel bearings or brakes. It's not something I would ever ignore as the consequences can be eggspensive. Especially if yer can't do the work yerself.

It's interesting different vehicle manufacturers quote different service intervals for the haldex. It's been suggested the LR setup is somehow partially to blame for causing more failures than the same unit on other vehicles. It's as if it's control via software is to blame. I can't see why unless it's used more on FL2's, therefore creating more clutch dust in the oil. There's no figures/facts proving this so it's hard to pin it down as viable. It's not uncommon for a rear diff or haldex to fail on a FL2, only to find the other then fails, if the first item isn't repaired quickly. Some have had one fixed and found the other fail within a short mileage. The only advice I can give to a FL2 owner is to follow the rule of: haldex at 20k miles, oil and filter at 40k miles, and hope for the best.

@Mungojerry

Did the fault on yer gearbox return?

I would agree with the comments above regarding auto gearbox oil. The LR service guide for the partial change is too long for my liking. An partial oil change is one of the cheapest things you can do, for preventative maintenance. FL2 owners have done the partial change at 60k miles for many years and found this to be of benefit to their FL2. Some do report minor/strange faults as they approach 60k miles when it's due for a partial change. So FL2 owners have moved to doing the partial change at 50k miles instead. It's worth noting there's a specific method to follow, at a certain range of temperature, with the engine running when the level check is done. Same method as the FL1 jatco auto oil change but at a higher temperature. Make sure you use auto oil which is compatible for yer auto gearbox anorl.

Hippo said:

It was Austen of bell eng that said oil at 20k miles, oil and filter at 40k miles.

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I'm inclined to go with that, but I'll do the filter at the same time, as it's included in the kit anyway.

Hippo said:

Austen doesn't seem to do forums much. Might be because he only gets grief. He's the go to company on Freel2 for most of the long time peeps as he's set himself up to repair/recon/supply them.

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He's probably too busy fixing busted Haldexes, diffs and PTUs.

Hippo said:

I would agree 100k miles is far too long without oil changes and don't know how vehicles can go that far without problems/failure.

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100k is silly, 150k or 10 years is just downright ridiculous.

Hippo said:

There's been failures from new at less than 1k miles as well as repeated failures on some vehicles, well within the oil's life time. Replacement units from LR as well as independents. So there's a variation of miles and age factors, across short, long or mixed length distances.

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That is very strange.

Hippo said:

Austen put forward the above based on what he's seen, I would assume. He must have cracked open a lot of failures as well as 'well used still working' units he's servicing. One can only assume his opinion is based on what he has seen from eggsperience.

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Which I will adhere to myself.

Hippo said:

I don't agree with a lot of the online comments about the haldex/diff issues. LR don't make them. They're bought in items. They will have suffered financial pain and embarrassment for warranty repairs and did offer some financial help to out of warranty repairs if carried out at a main dealer.

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The diff is made by Ford.
I can see why they fail too. The diff I rebuilt for my FL2 came from a 2013 Evoque, with 50k on the clock. I couldn't physically turn the pinion by hand, and measured a torque of 40Nm of torque to get it tuning, meaning the pinion bearing preload was miles too high. In fact it was almost 40X higher that the 1.1Nm given in the LR service and repair manual, so it's no wonder the diff pinion bearing fails. I set mine at a preload that I was happy with, and definitely nothing like as high as it was before I rebuilt it.

Hippo said:

There does seem to be more haldex failures in LR models when comparing to other vehicle manufacturers which use the same haldex. Some of that could be down to more LR forums and owners on the web complaining. If there was a problem I would have thought the haldex manufacturers would have raised concerns if it was something LR was doing wrong or solved the problem on repaired/future units.

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Heavier vehicle, and possibly harder use off road, although the latter doesn't always happen.

Hippo said:

If yer get a whine, drone or rumble from the rear then it should never be ignored.

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I ignored it, and went skidding down the road sideways, but I'll know for next time.

Hippo said:

Austen doesn't seem to do forums much.

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He's on the FB groups quite a bit.

I don't follow them much, but I happened to see he was on there the other day spouting that the 1WUT was a load of bollocks. He didn't like it when I pointed out he was wrong to say that and got all shirty. In true FB group style, the "admins" closed rank with him and try to stifle any hint of debate. They were more interested in finding out what was broken on a car when it judders some while the HDC is enabled.

GrumpyGel said:

I happened to see he was on there the other day spouting that the 1WUT was a load of bollocks.

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He developed the OWU test, as it uses the same principle as his weight and timer method.

I wonder how tight he sets the FL2 diff bearings?

Nodge68 said:

He developed the OWU test, as it uses the same principle as his weight and timer method.

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I pointed that out to him

He went on about drag from the brakes, wheel bearings and diff - normal stuff. When I told him that testing the VCU was to stop damage to expensive components and the 1WUT could not give a false pass test, I think that's when the Admins stepped in and told everyone in the playground to play nicely.

GrumpyGel said:

I pointed that out to him

He went on about drag from the brakes, wheel bearings and diff - normal stuff. When I told him that testing the VCU was to stop damage to expensive components and the 1WUT could not give a false pass test, I think that's when the Admins stepped in and told everyone in the playground to play nicely.

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That's the thing. The OWUT can't give you a false good result, only a false bad result if the brakes are binding.

He's probably got soure grapes, because the OWUT reduces the number of good VCUs he refurbished.

Nodge68 said:

That's the thing. The OWUT can't give you a false good result, only a false bad result if the brakes are binding.

He's probably got soure grapes, because the OWUT reduces the number of good VCUs he refurbished.

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I dunno about that, Bells do seam like a really good reputable outfit, its just Austin has this bee in his bonnet about the 1WUT for no good reason. It isn't the best test in the world, but its hardly if any worse than his bench test - neither is a full proper test of the VCU.

Nodge68 said:

I'm inclined to go with that, but I'll do the filter at the same time, as it's included in the kit anyway.

He's probably too busy fixing busted Haldexes, diffs and PTUs.

100k is silly, 150k or 10 years is just downright ridiculous.

That is very strange.

Which I will adhere to myself.

The diff is made by Ford. View attachment 230972
I can see why they fail too. The diff I rebuilt for my FL2 came from a 2013 Evoque, with 50k on the clock. I couldn't physically turn the pinion by hand, and measured a torque of 40Nm of torque to get it tuning, meaning the pinion bearing preload was miles too high. In fact it was almost 40X higher that the 1.1Nm given in the LR service and repair manual, so it's no wonder the diff pinion bearing fails. I set mine at a preload that I was happy with, and definitely nothing like as high as it was before I rebuilt it.

Heavier vehicle, and possibly harder use off road, although the latter doesn't always happen.


I ignored it, and went skidding down the road sideways, but I'll know for next time.

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Well oil change in gearbox complete but with lockdown not really able to put milage onto it to fully test her out.
Up and down shift are definitely improved and much more silky.
I'm hoping for a good outcome but will let you all know if it goes the other way fingers and toes crossed ...many thanks to all who have input so far...

Mungojerry said:

I'm hoping for a good outcome but will let you all know if it goes the other way fingers and toes crossed ...many thanks to all who have input so far...

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Have you had all the other fluids done, as those a just as vital, if things like the Haldex, rear diff and PTU are to remain healthy.

Nodge68 said:

Have you had all the other fluids done, as those a just as vital, if things like the Haldex, rear diff and PTU are to remain healthy.

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The haldex was done last year and I now have a list to be going on with... Throwing out LR's service schedule and going to produce my own one with the aid of the posts which have come through on this thread.
Busy couple of months ahead.
But many thanks your input has been appreciated

Mungojerry said:

The haldex was done last year and I now have a list to be going on with... Throwing out LR's service schedule and going to produce my own one with the aid of the posts which have come through on this thread.

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That's a very sensible route to take.
The most annoying thing is the components that need fluid changes don't have drain plugs. This means the fluids need to sucked out with a pump or large syringe and thin pipe.
However these pumps generally cost under £20, so very quickly pay for themselves.

Mungojerry said:

Busy couple of months ahead.
But many thanks your input has been appreciated

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The piece of mind will be worth the few hours it takes, every couple of years.

Nodge68 said:

That's a very sensible route to take.
The most annoying thing is the components that need fluid changes don't have drain plugs. This means the fluids need to sucked out with a pump or large syringe and thin pipe.
However these pumps generally cost under £20, so very quickly pay for themselves.

The piece of mind will be worth the few hours it takes, every couple of years.

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What I don't understand is how a car manufacture can give such huge service intervals to the main drive components.
The Haldex for example isn't even mentioned as a service requirement from what I can see.
10 years or 120K for Oil change in gearbox.
And yet people have so many problems when they follow their guidelines.
Surely trading standards would find the intervals compared to other manufactures a little worrying, especially if the part is not manufacture specific.
I have noticed on my various explorations around the underside and inside of the car that many parts are stamped with other car makers names...
The latest on the list being the actuators for the seat airbags having Volvo all over them....
I know Ford owned both Volvo and JLR at one time.

Mungojerry said:

What I don't understand is how a car manufacture can give such huge service intervals to the main drive components.
The Haldex for example isn't even mentioned as a service requirement from what I can see.
10 years or 120K for Oil change in gearbox.
And yet people have so many problems when they follow their guidelines.
Surely trading standards would find the intervals compared to other manufactures a little worrying, especially if the part is not manufacture specific.
I have noticed on my various explorations around the underside and inside of the car that many parts are stamped with other car makers names...
The latest on the list being the actuators for the seat airbags having Volvo all over them....
I know Ford owned both Volvo and JLR at one time.

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I suspect the long service interval was to make the car more appealing to fleet buyers, and if that's the case, LR aren't the first car manufacturer to do it.
VW list a 40k or 3 years interval for the Haldex Gen4, and a 20k interval for the Gen3.
So sticking to this or more often is beneficial.
The diff and PTU is an interesting one, as it's pretty common for components like these to have very long change intervals, across all manufacturers. For instance, the FL1didn't specify a rear diff oil change interval at all, just a periodic level check. The IRD (similar in function to the FL2 PTU) had a 75k change interval, and specified fully synthetic oil too.

The FL2 rear diff and PTU are known to be somewhat fragile, so using these fragile components with degraded oil is simply asking for trouble. Same for the Haldex, although in that the fluid fills with clutch pack dust, blocking the filter, causing the pump to overheat and fail.

As for other make components.
The FL2 is effectively a Volvo XC70, S80, V70, which themselves were based on a Ford Galaxy EUCD platform.
There are very few mechanical components which are made by LR, most are marked FoMoCo (Ford Motor Company), as that's who made them. Here's my rebuilt rear diff, which clearly has FoMoCo cast into the casing. There are several components, mostly electronic items which are carried over from Volvo, so these parts are marked as such. Even the key dock and fob are Volvo items, so they look and work the same way.

I

Nodge68 said:

I suspect the long service interval was to make the car more appealing to fleet buyers, and if that's the case, LR aren't the first car manufacturer to do it.
VW list a 40k or 3 years interval for the Haldex Gen4, and a 20k interval for the Gen3.
So sticking to this or more often is beneficial.
The diff and PTU is an interesting one, as it's pretty common for components like these to have very long change intervals, across all manufacturers. For instance, the FL1didn't specify a rear diff oil change interval at all, just a periodic level check. The IRD (similar in function to the FL2 PTU) had a 75k change interval, and specified fully synthetic oil too.

The FL2 rear diff and PTU are known to be somewhat fragile, so using these fragile components with degraded oil is simply asking for trouble. Same for the Haldex, although in that the fluid fills with clutch pack dust, blocking the filter, causing the pump to overheat and fail.

As for other make components.
The FL2 is effectively a Volvo XC70, S80, V70, which themselves were based on a Ford Galaxy EUCD platform.
There are very few mechanical components which are made by LR, most are marked FoMoCo (Ford Motor Company), as that's who made them. Here's my rebuilt rear diff, which clearly has FoMoCo cast into the casing. View attachment 231085 There are several components, mostly electronic items which are carried over from Volvo, so these parts are marked as such. Even the key dock and fob are Volvo items, so they look and work the same way.

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suppose the longer my ownership the more I'm going to learn...
Perhaps there's a unique opportunity for o r of the forums members with a fair bit of knowledge to make themselves a few bucks and help out members with less mechanical knowledge and little ownership time.
Manual on the way they would recommend dealing with those big issues such as Haldex, gearbox, diffs etc.
Pointing out the possible issues if you follow/ trust the LR2 service schedule and where they would advise differing from those.
With the likes of doing the Gearbox oil at 40'000 mile intervals and not the 120'000 miles LR indicate....
Anyone on here fit that bill