Freelander 1 Full lock lurches

wammers said:

A £400.00 car is not worth a new VCU in my view, run it in two wheel drive until it falls apart and scrap it or sell it for spares.

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Must admit that's where I'm looking at the moment
It was only a get back through winter kinda buy but I do like it.

Giantdog said:

Well, after an enchanting couple of hours underneath the Freelander I've wrestled the prop shaft off.
I didn't do the OWUT as it was absolutely p#*%ing it down, I'm wet through, freezing cold and proper p'd off.

I'm going to test the VCU in a vice and will post the results later.
I'm going to have to run it as is (2WD), certainly for this week while I assess my options.
Currently I'm thinking run it like this until it dies then throw it away.

The knocking on front lock seemed to come from the rear?
With the prop off it drives fine, no knocking at all even on full lock forward or reverse.

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If you are going to do the work bench test - we have no data on LZ as to what times you should expect - ie what's good and what's bad!

You would have to use the same length bar and weight as in the Bells workbench video and compare to the video - I presume they are testing a newly refurbed good VCU - not a mankey one they are about to refurb.

Mind you - I think we all know what the result will be!

A big +1 on checking the IRD oil. It doesn't even need chunks of metal to come out for the IRD to be stuffed. If its stuffed the bearings will have been ground down to a pulp - you won't see chunks - but the oil will come out grey - ie full of suspended metalic particles - mine was completely grey. If it comes out looking like oil - that is big cheesy grin time

When my IRD went I believe it is because I had a tyre low on air. The car "wasn't feeling right" but we had visitors and thought I'd check it out after they left - big mistake. We were also doing a lot of driving and the first thing I knew something was wrong was when I thought the exhaust had fallen off its hangar at the back - there was a rattle/clunking from the back - 1/2 a mile later the IRD went big time. I suspect that what I heard initially, as suggested here, was the rear diff being forced around on its mounts and hitting something (eg subframe).

Giantdog said:

So, the knackered bit could be, the IRD or the VCU or the rear diff, a combination or all three.

How do I work out which bit it is?

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I think we all know/expect your VCU to be knackered.

The oil is a good test of the IRD. I didn't get a pic of the oil coming out of my bad IRD - as I say it was grey and if your's is, I'd say that's similarly knackered. You should also remove the rear pinion and examine the crown/pinion gears for any damage. For reference, drained the oil from the IRD of a K Series I bought with 100K miles and a VCU that was timing at 2 minutes on the OWUT. It came out like this....





The Drain Plug has a magnet on top to catch swarf and small bits of metal, it came out looking like this...



So this IRD was attached to a 2 minute OWUT VCU and although the VCU needs reconditioning - I don't think it has damaged the IRD much. I would prefer to recondition it before it goes in my L Series, but it will go in as-is. If yours shows the same oil - you're probably OK to use it - but I can't guarantee that, and as I say - check the gear teeth also. Input from others would be good.

I don't really know much about the read diff. I don't know how to check it etc. Sucking out the oil and checking it would be a good start I suppose. As stated, also expect to have to replace the front mount of the diff - this is a common thing to have to replace on any Freelander.

Giantdog said:

• Recon IRD = £615...Car isn't worth it.
• VCU = £200... Possible assuming that's all that's gone.
• Rear diff = £350... Pushing it but maybe assuming that's all that's gone
• Just buy 2nd hand bits from a breakers...Parts could be as knackered as the bits I'd take off.

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As you say, you might get parts from a breakers and they are worse than those coming off your car, and I've always been one to say shy away from IRDs from a breakers. However, if you can get them at the right price - they may be worth a gamble. For the IRD if you can check the oil in them and the condition of their crown/pinion gears before parting with any cash - this should reflect how much you are prepared to pay! Diffs are probably a more reliable buy - but be weary. I don't see how a VCU from a breakers is worthwhile - definitely if you can not test it first.

wammers said:

A £400.00 car is not worth a new VCU in my view, run it in two wheel drive until it falls apart and scrap it or sell it for spares.

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I don't necessarily agree with this! A '99 Freelander can be a great reliable car. You could pay a lot more to buy a 4WD Freelander to find its transmission is on its last legs. Any 4WD Freelander you buy, you should budget on a recon VCU.

If you want reliable 4WD Freelander - probably the best way to buy is to get a 2WD one and recon or replace the IRD/VCU/Diff with recon gear - that way you know you've bought a bargain and got a 4WD in top condition.

So there's all sorts of ways of looking at it

If you do drain the IRD oil - undo the fill plug first. They are soft and prone to rounding. If you loosen it first, you know you can refill it Use the right oil as well. Check the manual or do a search on here - its referenced many times.

Thank you very much everyone.
I know it would have been best to do the OWUT but as I say the weather was terrible today and with only having a few hours I thought I'd best get the car in a runnable condition.
I'll look into the bench test but may just run it over to Bell and have them look at it.

I'll certainly look at the oil ASAP

On the Bells video of the bench test of the VCU it states a bar length of 780mm (it actually just looks like one half of the prop shaft, I could be wrong) and a weight of 7Kg.
It appears to take approx. 6 seconds to rotate from the 45 degree angle to level with the ground.

Will give it a go

Giantdog said:

On the Bells video of the bench test of the VCU it states a bar length of 780mm (it actually just looks like one half of the prop shaft, I could be wrong) and a weight of 7Kg.
It appears to take approx. 6 seconds to rotate from the 45 degree angle to level with the ground.

Will give it a go

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That's now helping the forum with VCU data. There's never enough data on VCU drag. This will help, especially if someone could do the maths to convert it into OWUT times.

If it is one of the props being used - that will make it difficult to get an easy calc to compare to the OWUT because its a heavy bit of kit - there will be a lot more weight than 7kg at 0.78m - eg how much weight in the prop that's more than 0.5 from the VCU.

However - if it is it does make workbench tests even more accurate because it will be exactly the same bar being used for all tests.

Iirc Bell used the splined yoke so a bar can be slid in. As to weather it's a solid bar or hollow tube. That's any bodies guess.

I'm really kicking myself for not doing the OWUT but it was soo friggin cold and wet.
I had to change clothes 3 times during the job I was so wet.

I will do the bench test and video it.

When we altered out house extension:
me "that room needs to be converted into a garage"
missus "no, I want it to be a extra sitting room"
Guess who won?
And it's now full of junk and I'm on the drive drowning in a monsoon!
Aaaaarrrggghhhhh

Giantdog said:

I'm really kicking myself for not doing the OWUT but it was soo friggin cold and wet.
I had to change clothes 3 times during the job I was so wet.

I will do the bench test and video it.

When we altered out house extension:
me "that room needs to be converted into a garage"
missus "no, I want it to be a extra sitting room"
Guess who won?
And it's now full of junk and I'm on the drive drowning in a monsoon!
Aaaaarrrggghhhhh

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I also have to work on my cars outside. Not because the garage is used as a room. Mine if full of 72 Hillman Avenger GT and a huge amount of collected automobilia!! Oh and some furry rodents too. The joys of living in the country side

Nodge68 said:

I also have to work on my cars outside. Not because the garage is used as a room. Mine if full of 72 Hillman Avenger GT and a huge amount of collected automobilia!! Oh and some furry rodents too. The joys of living in the country side

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lifestyle choice

Giantdog said:

I'm really kicking myself for not doing the OWUT but it was soo friggin cold and wet.
I had to change clothes 3 times during the job I was so wet.

I will do the bench test and video it.

When we altered out house extension:
me "that room needs to be converted into a garage"
missus "no, I want it to be a extra sitting room"
Guess who won?
And it's now full of junk and I'm on the drive drowning in a monsoon!
Aaaaarrrggghhhhh

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I admire your commitment to the cause and total madness - I think you'll fit in just fine in Landyzone

When we came to replace the D1V8 I wanted a D2TD5. The Mrs wanted a Freelander. I consulted my brother who had about 250 guys working for him at LR building prototype vehicles - he said don't touch a Freelander with a barge pole, get a TD5.

So of course we got a Freelander

I'm glad we did now - but do not tell her that

I actually enjoy driving the Freelander to be honest. It's comfortable, reasonably quite and economical. It's perfect for driving in bad weather as it is so sure footed. It actually deals with flooded roads better than the wife's Ford Kuga. That pulls left if you run through a bit of water in the gutter. However the Freelander just drives through it, without a hint of pull. The only way to tell that I hit water at all, is because it ends up on the bonnet and windscreen. Otherwise it's brilliant at doing what it was made for.

Humph.
Today it has actually stopped raining so I thought I'd have a quick look at bench testing the VCU.
But
It looks a bit more tricky than I thought. I thought clamp one end in the vice and rotate the other end prop through 90 degree, attach weight and Bobs your uncle.
Nar, ain't gonna happen. The prop doesn't have enough movement to sit at 90 degree, of course it doesn't. D'oh

So, I'm really interested to test it and I think it'll be easier to quickly refit it to the car and do the OWUT rather than split it, obtain and fit a bar etc etc.
It does look pretty tired, mind you so would I had I spent the last 17 years underneath a car.

That's a bugger - you're probably right about putting it back on the car and doing the OWUT.

However, you'll have to split it anyway if it needs replacing.

[Edit : Although you'll probably want to keep the UJ stubs on for testing it]

It really doesn't matter what the VCU looks like externally, the insides where it all happens will have been protected from the elements - well the elements of weather & salt etc

GrumpyGel said:

That's a bugger - you're probably right about putting it back on the car and doing the OWUT.

However, you'll have to split it anyway if it needs replacing.

[Edit : Although you'll probably want to keep the UJ stubs on for testing it]

It really doesn't matter what the VCU looks like externally, the insides where it all happens will have been protected from the elements - well the elements of weather & salt etc

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Because I'm a bit odd like that my thinking at this point after walking the dogs is to:

• Put it back on and do the OWUT as there is data on here from others that have done it, I can then add my findings.
• As you say I've got to strip it down anyway then do the bench test. I'm interested in what the difference in results would be.
• Then if and it is an IF I replace the VCU I'd do the same 2 tests with the new unit.

I'll be looking at the oil in the rear diff and the IRD so watch this space.

I'd be very impressed if you did a OWUT & workbench test on your VCU... and even more impressed if you did the tests with the recon as well

You'd go down in the LZ history books!

...and for no reason other than I love this pic, here's a pic I took of my dog whilst out on a walk....

Looks more like a HappyGel to me!!

GrumpyGel said:

I'd be very impressed if you did a OWUT & workbench test on your VCU... and even more impressed if you did the tests with the recon as well

You'd go down in the LZ history books!

...and for no reason other than I love this pic, here's a pic I took of my dog whilst out on a walk....

View attachment 111267

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Great pic.
I'll certainly do the tests on my CVU and depending what I find with the other bits (IRD and diff) will enable me to make the call on a recon VCU.
Watch this space

The 'knocking' you describe as sounding like it is coming from the rear - on full lock - will be the IRD output crown wheel and pinion / front diff carrier shaft to rear drive intermediate shaft jumping teeth - the strain causes the already knackered pinion / diff carrier shaft teeth to jump causing a considerable 'knock' down the whole drive train via the drive shafts to the rear. The lurching you describe is also the result of the same issue.
Basically - from all accountsa - the IRD is knackered. The crown wheel support bearings or FRONT diff output bearing and teeth will be knackered.
You are looking at a re-con IRD and a replacement / recon VCU whatever results you get on any test of the VCU. - you simply cannot afford to NOT replace the vcu once the IRD is confirmed as knackered.
It was removed for the very reason you are seeing. (unfortunately)
I wouldn't waste time with any tests of the vcu with the symptoms you are having. Simply drop the oil in the IRD and remove the pinion input housing and take a look.
Anyone selling a freelander with props off for 'economy reasons' is basically conning you.
It could also be the case that the IRD front diff shaft (internal to the IRD) is jumping teeth. Usually this is caused by the collapse of the RH drive shaft to IRD input bearing. This can cause the case to shatter meaning that the IRD is not even fit for exchange.
All in all - not good news from all you have described.
Again, for now - ignore the VCU - drain the ird oil, remove the IRD pinion housing and inspect - and also check the RH drive shaft to IRD connection for ANY free play.