Fuel tank capacity.

Hello fellow series owners....
Quiet a simple question really but cant seem to find the information anywhere.
I have a 1983 ex mod 109 with a fuel tank under each seat.
I'm wondering what the capacity of each tank is???
I'm trying to work out my range running on Veg oil

Thanks in advance.

Might be wrong but think they are 15 gallons either side. The civvy tank on the 88" is approx 10 gallons

I thought they were the same size as they fit in the same place 10 gallons the rear ones were larger.

I've been assuming 10 gallons.
Re veg oil, I've done around 100,000 miles on SVO in the past. Do not, repeat not put any veg oil in a CAV/DPA pump. The best pump is the Bosch in-line, they are oil lubed (very important) and have a huge over pressure capacity. Even they fail because veg oil dissolves neoprene, takes a while, but it does. Its quite reactive and attacks copper too. I had to always carry a spare fuel filter and I had extra strainers in the line and a heater. I learned a lot the hard way, never ever use SVO below 3 deg C, its turns to jelly and the only way home is on a tow truck. Below around 5-8 deg start diluting with petrol and always put injector cleaner in every tank, if you don't it will stop idling by halfway through the tankful.. I did it as an environmental ie carbon neutral experiment and learned a lot, it saved some money but in the end a number of things killed it for me:
I was using a produce of food growing land as fuel, some counties have banned bio-fuel as they see it as wealthy using resources and increasing food prices. I came to agree.
The supplies of used oil dried up as these were bought up by big players for bulk biodiesel manufacture
Increasingly the veg oil I was able to buy in bulk was soya, then GM soya, then GM soya from Brazil - ie from burned rain forest, that was the end, I'd began trying to save the planet and was killing it.
Long term it was probably not economical, it clogs the pump and builds varnish in the engine that start to impact by 75-80k miles. I knew my engine had to go back onto diesel or get rebuilt.

I tried veg oil years ago, the car ran okay on 50/50 derv/veg mix, after that it started to lose power at higher rpms, i faffed around for some time, then the price of veg oil doubled as to many people were doing the same thing, add in the aggro i just gave it up.
Must be a dying thing nowadays as I cannot remember the last time I smelt the tell tale smell in traffic?

20 gallons and that will be both tanks
http://smithies.co.nz/land_rover/

I have 84 series with twin tanks and did a longish trip to Scotland about 1100 mile , the low fuel light starts to flash with about 2 gallons left in then switch over
When I did the consumption calcs when I got back I was getting about 25-26 mpg on diesel and a lot of that was hard driving with hills so theoretically about 500mile range

Gentlemen, thank you all for your responses. It’s a very interesting subject running on veg oil. I’ve not started to run on it yet as I’m still building my “refinery” (down to 1 micron filter) my friend works in a kitchen and offered it to me for free. I’m getting about 150 liters a month. And storing it in IBC’s at work on the farm. I have a series 3 fitted with a diahatsu DG engine (2.5) it has a nippon pump I believe. Anyway the beauty of having 2 tanks is that I plan to fill one with veg oil and one with normal derv. That way I can switch between the 2. Starting on derv until engine is up to temp then switching over to veg oil and then finishing back on derv to clean out injectors and make it easier to start next time. I’m planning on installing 12v wrap around heater on the fuel pipe just before the pump to help it along the way.
Let me know what you think or any advice you have to help me along the way. It could be very economical and environmentally friendly too if it works. I don’t know much about the DG engines but believe them to be bulletproof

Has anyone checked emissions running on veg oil, does it change whether it's olive oil, sunflower oil or rapeseed oil?

kermit_rr said:

Has anyone checked emissions running on veg oil, does it change whether it's olive oil, sunflower oil or rapeseed oil?

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I believe rapeseed is the one of choice over sunflower, olive oil was always way to expensive back in the days of me having a oil burner. Unless you can get oil for free or next to nowt there's not much point given the relatively cheap price of diesel at the pump.

Chockster said:

Gentlemen, thank you all for your responses. It’s a very interesting subject running on veg oil. I’ve not started to run on it yet as I’m still building my “refinery” (down to 1 micron filter) my friend works in a kitchen and offered it to me for free. I’m getting about 150 liters a month. And storing it in IBC’s at work on the farm. I have a series 3 fitted with a diahatsu DG engine (2.5) it has a nippon pump I believe. Anyway the beauty of having 2 tanks is that I plan to fill one with veg oil and one with normal derv. That way I can switch between the 2. Starting on derv until engine is up to temp then switching over to veg oil and then finishing back on derv to clean out injectors and make it easier to start next time. I’m planning on installing 12v wrap around heater on the fuel pipe just before the pump to help it along the way.
Let me know what you think or any advice you have to help me along the way. It could be very economical and environmentally friendly too if it works. I don’t know much about the DG engines but believe them to be bulletproof

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What about running a hot water heater coil inside the veg tank (like in a hot water boiler) using the engines coolant to keep the veg warm/thinner?

lynall said:

What about running a hot water heater coil inside the veg tank (like in a hot water boiler) using the engines coolant to keep the veg warm/thinner?

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Or a kettle element

Good idea I had considered exactly the same I have an oil cooler radiator I was going to use to drop in the tank and use as a heater from the engine coolant however after speaking to a friend (an engineer) he pointed out that the fuel line is so long and thin gauge plastic that the warm oil will pretty much be cool by the time it hits the fuel pump the best option is to heat it just before it gets to the pump (allowing the pump to work a little easier) I have found 12v silicone pads on eBay for around a tenner. My plan was to wrap the line with a couple of these and have a switch on the dash kinda like glow plugs but for oil heat if that makes sense.
let me know if You all know something more. I had also considered an electric emersion heater inside the tank.
I have an old 100L emersion tank I use to heat the oil so I can filter it a little easier it’s stage one of my filter process.

kermit_rr said:

Has anyone checked emissions running on veg oil, does it change whether it's olive oil, sunflower oil or rapeseed oil?

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I got my conversion tested for emissions, I wanted to get (and was successful) an exemption from the "carbon parking charge" in Camden, so I believe I'm the only person to have done it.
The problem is that things have moved on. At the time the focus was on diesel particulates and fast food / frying was seen as safe. Now the evidence is that cooking particulates from fast food places are harmful. Veg oil exhaust does have a lot of particulates in and I think the days of saying (as I did) "its just like a takeaway" are over.
I ran twin tanks, 6 port changeover, looed return, multi-plate heat exchanger and immersion heater in veg tank plus boost pump and extra filter. But in the end the extra maintenance and breakdowns out weighed the savings. Veg oil is very chemically aggressive and so i had to change out all the fuel lines every couple of years, the alternative was to re-run in silicon - really expensive, Nylon is ok for straight runs so you have to make it in sections. Power is about the same, perhaps a little less, fuel consumption is about 10-15% higher which eats into the savings. The veg oil will strip anything out the tank it can and dump it in the filter.
There is an exemption for tax that works out OK for average mileage, you must register as a fuel producer.(I think its free) you need to do this in case your tank is dipped as it will not come up as road diesel and you don't want your vehicle being impounded when they are looking for red diesel.. You are a "producer" because the veg oil becomes a fuel once it is put into a vehicle tank, and once dilute with petrol or diesel its no longer a food stuff - I think you are allowed 5000l /yr tax free which is plenty. The reason you have to do this is because its illegal to run a vehicles on anything other than an approved road vehicle fuel - veg oil is approved and so is injector cleaner and petrol so your mix is legal but its about having some paperwork ready. In my 100k miles I came across a number of revenue tank dipping checks, but always at motorway service areas. Rather than have the argument I just kept going.
Expect the sentiment to shift against veg oil, particulates are high and no longer seen as safe, and its in competition with food for fertile land. (That's before we get to the rain forest...)
And remember NEVER in a DPA pump.

Amazing information thanks so much. Having said all that would it be easier and less bother to just mix derv and oil together? 50/50 or so and then not bother with the hassle of extra maintenance, conversions... etc?
Or what would the mix have to be? My mileage isn’t going to be huge as it’s not my main vehicle. My idea is that come 2023 my Landy will be
Tax exempt
MOT exempt
Run on free veg oil
And have classic insurance (less than £100)
So owning/running it will be cheap as chips (pardon the pun)

All good but personally I wouldn't bother with the veg oil. At low mileages it may cost more in extra maintenance than it saves.
I run an S2A as you describe and its very cheap to run even on diesel. It has twin tanks and I did look into a veg conversion as I had all the experience, but I decided not to, there were no significant savings at my mileage of around 2000 miles / yr.. When I ran on veg oil (an Merc 300D) I was doing 12k miles / year and at first there were significant savings, by the end it was £1-200 yr. When I did the original conversion there were very active forums and a lot of kit, when I stopped about 2 years ago I advertised the car with the veg conversion, not a single person wanted the conversion. The car sold but as a diesel which I found very interesting. As commented above, veg oil seems to be falling out of fashion, my guess its its not saving much and the people like me who had been doing it a while found the long term problems. Supply was always an issue, I found I had to keep up 200 ltrs stock to make bulk buying work and cover the driving to get the veg oil, the nearest supplier was a 30 miles round trip. Keep it outside and it sets in winter, keep it inside and you have 200 l of very flammable stuff, its also heavy so i had a trolley and pump to transfer it. Don't even think about making bio-diesel, its a way to blow yourself up. The guys who do it in the US tend to live on ranches and have a shed 100 yds from the house. Make the slightest error in the processing and you create something that blocks all the fuel system too.
Back to the soya vs rape seed question. You need to know the sulphur content, food grade is very low but check and the oxidation/polymerisation index is critical. Veg oil is the basis for natural paints, it polymerises on contact with air and sets to a glaze. Some oils set fast and must never go anywhere near an engine, others set slow and can be used as a fuel. But they all set sooner or later once exposed to air, this is not a good thing for a fuel and means you must never leave it in the tank. It needs to be used and refilled regularly. I never completely sorted problems with the fuel filter and always had the tools in the glove box to bleed the filter, it always seemed to need it at night in a deserted car park and nearly flat battery! I solved it partly by fitting an extra purge pump, I think it had attacked the internal seals in the injector pump.
What engine and injector pump are you running?

Sounds like you are the man with the know how! thanks for your response. I used to run an old transit on derv/veg oil mix with no modifications or problems and it ran sweet, that's what has got me thinking about saving a few quid on free fuel.
I'm running a Daihatsu DG (2.5) with a nippon denso pump in my ex-mod series 3. Ive been told they are pretty bullet proof. This one its self is a 1983 fires up in a second, ticks over at low revs and could pull a house down!
I get free veg oil every month which means it could potentially be worth it to me. I pick it up down the road in a 50gal drum strapped to a dolly then push it over to my workshop so no cost there either (and a free work out)
I'm reading online and some people swear by it and others say its the devil incarnate, so I'm trying to find a middle ground whereby I can save some money and not damage my pump/engine with minimal modifications. Let me know what you would advise.

Chockster said:

Sounds like you are the man with the know how! thanks for your response. I used to run an old transit on derv/veg oil mix with no modifications or problems and it ran sweet, that's what has got me thinking about saving a few quid on free fuel.
I'm running a Daihatsu DG (2.5) with a nippon denso pump in my ex-mod series 3. Ive been told they are pretty bullet proof. This one its self is a 1983 fires up in a second, ticks over at low revs and could pull a house down!
I get free veg oil every month which means it could potentially be worth it to me. I pick it up down the road in a 50gal drum strapped to a dolly then push it over to my workshop so no cost there either (and a free work out)
I'm reading online and some people swear by it and others say its the devil incarnate, so I'm trying to find a middle ground whereby I can save some money and not damage my pump/engine with minimal modifications. Let me know what you would advise.

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How many miles are you doing in it?

probably maximum 2k a year.

My best shot at a considered answer:
Make sure the pump is oil lubricated, it must not be fuel lubricated. Veg oil in any % will seize a fuel lubricated pump as its acts like a glue.
Find out what the seals are, nitrile will dissolve, I think its viton that you need, I'll try to check that
How do you run your twin tanks now, if you have a diesel where is the return going for each tank? What you don't want its slug of veg oil at the bottom of the diesel tank just waiting to set on a cold morning.
Find out the sulphur for the oil. If its food grade sulphur will be low, you can only use low sulphur - its illegal to burn high sulphur fuel so food grade is OK
How pure is it? Blocking filters soon costs more than you save. always carry a spare! The best set up I ever saw used a centrifugal filter
Start simple, just put 10% in the tank and try it, then 25%. I would not go above that now its winter, in summer you can run 50% with no mods. In winter you can experiment with adding petrol too, it cuts the smoke a bit.
The best way to use it is on long hot runs, it burns much better in a hot engine / pump /injectors. Its not good on short journeys, its bungs up the injectors and you spend more on injector cleaner than you save.
Fill the tank with diesel and plan to let it run low before a long trip, then put 50% veg in for the run and again aim to run it low so you can refill with diesel for the short runs.
The twin tank/heater/changover set up is a lot of work and looking back I'm not sure it was worth the bother when I could just have poured 50% in for the long runs. Bear in mind if you run twin tanks you have to change over to diesel 5 miles before you get home to purge the veg oil so you can start in the morning. I was forever forgetting and having to jump start to bleed diesel through. I always had the biggest battery I could get.
My set up worked because i had to drive from London to Liverpool and back every week so I could get everything hot and keep to a steady speed and not get stuck in traffic. I used to plan the route to stay on motorway as long as possible. For local runs and now I'm not doing long trips it doesn't make sense. The engine never idled properly on veg oil, I think the injectors can't get a decent spray at low volumes.
Your engine will probably be OK, its the injector pump you need to watch. Long term it gums the rings and its been known to turn the engine oil to jelly so you must do regular oil changes. I always did a few weeks 100% diesel to clean the worst of it out.
I did try buying pre-made bio-diesel but in every case the quality was so poor I had to change the filters several times, in one case I had to dump the whole tankful. That was from a "supplier" in Liverpool docks, he was filling all the taxis for 70p ltr. I've often wondered how many broke down, most I suspect.

Chockster said:

probably maximum 2k a year.

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I'd probably flog the veg oil on ebay and put cash towards normal diesel