Fuel Pump, filter, both? How do I tell?

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Fritz

Active Member
Posts
183
Location
Surrey
Hi

I've had an 02 TD4 3 door for just over a week now, everything fine but I noticed it took a little longer than I would expect to start. Now I don;t mean I had to crank it for ages but maybe for 4-5 secs before it would start.

Then the other morning the ems light came on, low power. Stopped when I could like I read on here, light stayed on and couldn't re-start. After about 15 mins light went off and started fine so off I went. This happened again the next day, same process and all is fine again.

I also filled up with fuel after the second time an it seems to start quicker and have only had the light when I have less than about 1/3 of a tank.

Now when I bought the car it had an almost full fuel tank, struck me as odd at the time (I mean who sells a car witha full tank of fuel?) but didn;t ring any alarm bells although now i think maybe it's more significant than I thought.

From what I've read on here & the fact that it had afull tank when I bought it I'm guessing the light is because of low fuel pressure (the head of fuel being enough to provide the extra pressure when the tank is full) so I probably have a dodgy pump(s) (is there more than one) and/ or a clogged filter.

Two questions really, does all this sound logical? If so how do I tell if it's a filter or pump problem. I've read the fixes on this site and they seem fairly straight forward but is it case of picking one and hoping it sorts it first time or can I narrow it down somehow? Am I missing something else it could be?
 
If it was a fuel filter or pump I doubt that your problem would be solved by filling up your tank.Sounds like something else.I woul maybe try a code reader to see what the fault was.

neilc
 
Hey all,

I've been following this forum for a couple of weeks now since i bought my freelander (gaylander depending on who is reading).

This post prompted me to sign up, I have the exact same problem and would just like to confirm to Fritz that i too need to keep the tank topped up. If I run too low on fuel, the engine will cut out, display the EML and require more fuel and some patience to get going again. The last time this happened I had to push the landy up a hill and bump start it.

I too would be interested in what you find. I've been told that the freelander has two pumps, and that it will use the second one when there is a low fuel pressure. I'm not sure how accurate this info is, and i've yet test it out (need to get some spare time) but i've been told to test the output pressure of both pumps and replace the faulty one.

Lets hope somebody has know how to fix this!!! lol
 
twistedjackass said:
I too would be interested in what you find. I've been told that the freelander has two pumps, and that it will use the second one when there is a low fuel pressure. I'm not sure how accurate this info is, and i've yet test it out (need to get some spare time) but i've been told to test the output pressure of both pumps and replace the faulty one.
Click to expand...

this is not strictly true. there is a low pressure lift pump which deals with getting the diesel from the tank to the engine, then a high pressure pump which raises the pressure of the incoming fuel to injection pressure which is many many times higher than the pressure generated by the lift pump.
 
thanks for the reply.

so going by this, could it be the low pressure lift pump at fault then?!

or would that mean no diesel will go to the engine at all times?

cheers

Optimus Prime said:
this is not strictly true. there is a low pressure lift pump which deals with getting the diesel from the tank to the engine, then a high pressure pump which raises the pressure of the incoming fuel to injection pressure which is many many times higher than the pressure generated by the lift pump.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Twisted, I've not run it low enough to find out but I'm 90% certain this only happens when I have less than about 1/3 of a tank
 
yeah Fritz, I'm similar, I run it not less than the 2nd notch on the fuel gauge, so i never will see the fuel light.

i'm going to try changing the filter first, seems to be the most cost effective way to getting to the bottom of the issue
 
I had to crank it for ages but maybe for 4-5 secs before it would start.

I noticed mine was taking longer than usual to fire up. Then it didn't fire at all!

Turned out to be an injector leaking back. Easy to check, search for "Injector leak-off test".
 
If you suspect low fuel pressure first you need to establish if both LP pumps are running. From late 2003 there is only one LP pump located with the filter under the right rear wheelarch. Before that there are two, one in the tank and one under the bonnet next to the fuel filter. You should be able to hear both pumps running to prime the system when the ignition is first turned on. The intank pump is accessed from under the rear seat.
Pumps seem to fail from around 80k miles or so.
 
Had a general tinker about around the car today and I can definitely hear both the in tank pump and under the bonnet pump working. They both run for about 30 secs after the ignition is turned on.

The fuel filter under the bonnet doesn't look like it's been changed in a while (rust around the top rim) so I'm going to change that but I can't see how that would account for the problem only occuring when I have low (ish) fuel levels.

I did find a hose with a pin prick hole in it where it rubs against a small posidrive screw head. You have to remove the plastic cover to see it. I think it might be the intercooler pipe (runs across the front of the engine under the plastic cover and disappears down by the left of rad as you face the car from front) so I patched with a piece of 3 mm neoprene sheet and taped around. Seemed to start easier after I did this but might be imagining it as I have a full tank and again, if this was the problem then why would it only happen at low (ish) fuel levels.....Unless of course the slow start is nothing to do with what I think is a low fuel pressure problem.

I'm suspecting that the in tank pump and/or filter need looking at. I'm sure I saw a post on here about how to remove and clean both the in tank filter & overhaul the in tank pump but can't seem to find it now.....Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Chaser is this an easy thing to do? I think I remember reading somewhere that a special tool is needed to undo a clip?
 
Last edited:
P.s. Is the filter part of the in tank pump or a separate thing? Can I change one without changing the other?
 
Fritz said:
Hi

I've had an 02 TD4 3 door for just over a week now, everything fine but I noticed it took a little longer than I would expect to start. Now I don;t mean I had to crank it for ages but maybe for 4-5 secs before it would start.

Then the other morning the ems light came on, low power. Stopped when I could like I read on here, light stayed on and couldn't re-start. After about 15 mins light went off and started fine so off I went. This happened again the next day, same process and all is fine again.

I also filled up with fuel after the second time an it seems to start quicker and have only had the light when I have less than about 1/3 of a tank.

Now when I bought the car it had an almost full fuel tank, struck me as odd at the time (I mean who sells a car witha full tank of fuel?) but didn;t ring any alarm bells although now i think maybe it's more significant than I thought.

From what I've read on here & the fact that it had afull tank when I bought it I'm guessing the light is because of low fuel pressure (the head of fuel being enough to provide the extra pressure when the tank is full) so I probably have a dodgy pump(s) (is there more than one) and/ or a clogged filter.

Two questions really, does all this sound logical? If so how do I tell if it's a filter or pump problem. I've read the fixes on this site and they seem fairly straight forward but is it case of picking one and hoping it sorts it first time or can I narrow it down somehow? Am I missing something else it could be?
Click to expand...

The main clue here is fuel level. Your TD4 is early enough to have two low pressure electric fuel pumps 1. In tank 2. n/s inner wing below fuse box and next to the fuel filter. A quick check will confirm.

If this proves to be so then I would guess that the in-tank pump is faulty and therefore unable to supply fuel to the second under bonnet pump. A full fuel tank will compensate somewhat for this problem.
 
I took the in tank fuel pump out this morning (twisted it's real easy, follow the link Chaser left).

I was hoping to find it fouled up but it looks brand new (I assume the white plastic will be yellow on old pumps?), filter was absolutely spotless. So lift pump looks ok but i suppose it could still be weak. Anyway going to change the fuel filter under the bonnet next as it looks old.

One other thing I noticed. When I was disconnecting the battery etc I noticed in the engine bay fuse box that fuse 3 (15A) was missing. I've put a fuse in now but can anyone tell me what this circuit is for, the handbook just says engine management.
 
Just checked, fuse 3 only used for petrol models.....

When changing the filter see if you can gauge the fuel pressure TO the underbonnet pump by switching ignition on with pipe into a container.
carefully though as pressure should be quite high.
 
Last edited:
wow what a great amount of information to come back to!

Fritz try lying under your tank and have somebody switch on the ignition- i've just done this and dont hear a peep! i think my problem is definately the pump within the tank.

would i be better getting this from fleabay or a breakers? I hear they are about £200 new.

again, thanks for the info/links so far :)
 
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