Fuel Costs

"maxwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> You may disagree with the level of tax in the UK - thats fine - you may
> want US level of taxes - but we are talking of a civilised society / may
> your god help you If you or your family have serious health
> issues/unemplyment
>
> You really cannot disagree with the statement re: total tax take - it is
> fact - OK it may have gone up to around 42% - the\rest of western europe is
> between 47% and 53% - so if we are sticking to percentages (approx) 50 vs 40
> (total tax take) from your 100squid is still 25% more than we pay in this
> country

I'm sure my tax bill is greater than 42%! If you include Nat Ins as
tax (which I most certainly do), then I pay ~35% direct from salary,
then ~50% from my higher rated earnings. This does not include all
the other post PAYE taxes that I pay whenever I fill my car with
petrol, buy things from shops, drink beer etc. I paid enough PAYE tax
last year to pay a policemans salary (including the tax that *HE*
would pay)!

My complaint is that I cannot calculate exactly how much tax I pay
each year. Just tax me 50% (or whatever) from my earnings and remove
all the stealth taxes. I have no complaint about paying for adequate
services throught tax - I just object to the lack of transparency.

"maxwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> You may disagree with the level of tax in the UK - thats fine - you may
> want US level of taxes - but we are talking of a civilised society / may
> your god help you If you or your family have serious health
> issues/unemplyment
>
> You really cannot disagree with the statement re: total tax take - it is
> fact - OK it may have gone up to around 42% - the\rest of western europe is
> between 47% and 53% - so if we are sticking to percentages (approx) 50 vs 40
> (total tax take) from your 100squid is still 25% more than we pay in this
> country

I'm sure my tax bill is greater than 42%! If you include Nat Ins as
tax (which I most certainly do), then I pay ~35% direct from salary,
then ~50% from my higher rated earnings. This does not include all
the other post PAYE taxes that I pay whenever I fill my car with
petrol, buy things from shops, drink beer etc. I paid enough PAYE tax
last year to pay a policemans salary (including the tax that *HE*
would pay)!

My complaint is that I cannot calculate exactly how much tax I pay
each year. Just tax me 50% (or whatever) from my earnings and remove
all the stealth taxes. I have no complaint about paying for adequate
services throught tax - I just object to the lack of transparency.

Nigel Cox wrote:
>
> Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us
> to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p -80p, we need to
> take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
> marketplace not sellers. With the price of petrol going up more each
> day, we consumers need to take action.

It is perfectly obvious to any thinking person that it is the UK
Government that has conditioned us to the price of road fuel. After
all, by far the highest proportion of the cost is tax.
America pays the same market price for their oil as we do but the pump
price is a bit lower ;-(

What you do about it is up to you, but don't blame the OPEC for high
prices in the UK because they only get a fraction.


Huw


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yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnnn...........


"Nigel Cox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cZmuc.49$cs4.9@newsfe4-gui...
> Hi,
>
> Apologies for the obvious X posting but I thought it might be worth it to
us
> all in the end.
>
>
> "Someone came up with an idea, you never know it might work.
>
> We are going to hit close to 89p a litre by the summer. Want petrol prices
> to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action.
>
> Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain day"
> campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just
> laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves
by
> refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was
a
> problem for them.
>
> BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really
> work. Please read it and join in!
>
> Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to
think
> that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p -80p, we need to take aggressive
> action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers. With
> the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take
> action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is
if
> we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do
> that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
>
> For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest
> oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they are not selling
any
> petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their
> prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.
>
> But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP
> petrol buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't whimp out on me at
this
> point; keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of
> people!!
>
> I am sending this note to a; lot of people. If each of you send it to at
> least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten
more
> (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the
sixth
> generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!
If
> those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then
> 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further,
> you guessed it. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE! Again, all You have to do is
> send this to 10 people. That's all. (And not buy at ESSO/BP) How long
would
> all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people
within
> one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted
> within the next 8 days! I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much
> potential did you! Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes
> sense to you, please pass this message on. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY
LOWER
> THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE
>
> Action:
> It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
petrol
> at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP and
> Esso."
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Nigel
> (Remove the error to reply)
>
>

:
> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
> petrol
> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP
and
> > Esso."

And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
Morrisons?

Mjolinor wrote:
>>> It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy
>>> your petrol at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc.
>>> i.e. boycott BP and Esso."
>
> And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
> Morrisons?

Maybe they make their own from waste food in a shed out the back LOL

Huw


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On or around Sun, 30 May 2004 17:21:07 +0100, "Mjolinor"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>:
>> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
>> petrol
>> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP
>and
>> > Esso."
>
>And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
>Morrisons?

quite. but they sell at a lower profit or even zero profit to attract
custom.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right
is to be none the less free than you were before."
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16

There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools , but please
justify motorists paying vastly more than their fair share.
The anti-motoring lobby has repeated the same nonsense so often that
it is taken for gospel - anyone would think that the planet is doomed
unless we walk everywhere !
Remember that only about 3% of the carbon dioxide produced comes from
human endeavour.This includes everything , of which motoring is only a
fraction. I think my central heating produces more than my cars over a
year , but guess what.....the politicians only tax gas at 5% or so !

"myself" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:40d6b88f.11454605@localhost...
> There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
> is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools , but please
> justify motorists paying vastly more than their fair share.

Motorists are an easy target - simple as that.

Cheers
Andrew Kay

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:53:22 +0100, "Andrew Kay"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"myself" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:40d6b88f.11454605@localhost...
>> There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
>> is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools , but please
>> justify motorists paying vastly more than their fair share.
>
>Motorists are an easy target - simple as that.
>
>Cheers
>Andrew Kay
True - fuel , tobacco , alcohol are all easy to tax and collect . But
high fuel tax is really only borne by the private motorist - business
users pass it on .
>
>
>

In message <40d6c409.14392009@localhost>, myself <[email protected]> writes
>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:53:22 +0100, "Andrew Kay"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"myself" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:40d6b88f.11454605@localhost...
>>> There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
>>> is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools , but please
>>> justify motorists paying vastly more than their fair share.
>>
>>Motorists are an easy target - simple as that.
>>
>>Cheers
>>Andrew Kay
>True - fuel , tobacco , alcohol are all easy to tax and collect . But
>high fuel tax is really only borne by the private motorist - business
>users pass it on .
>>
Pass it on to whom? One of the arguments of the transport lobby is that
they cannot pass it on.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

In message <40d6b88f.11454605@localhost>, myself <[email protected]> writes
>There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......
<Snip>
As a subscriber to uk.rec.cars.lpg to whom you have crossposted this
ranting drivel, I don't think 30p per litre is too bad for my fuel,
however much of it is made up by tax.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 30 May 2004 17:21:07 +0100, "Mjolinor"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >:
> >> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
> >> petrol
> >> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP
> >and
> >> > Esso."
> >
> >And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
> >Morrisons?
>
> quite. but they sell at a lower profit or even zero profit to attract
> custom.

Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and Morrisons do but BP and the like make the profit
just the same which is why the plan won't work.

On or around Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:37:56 GMT, [email protected] (myself) enlightened
us thusly:

>There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
>is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools , but please
>justify motorists paying vastly more than their fair share.
>The anti-motoring lobby has repeated the same nonsense so often that
>it is taken for gospel - anyone would think that the planet is doomed
>unless we walk everywhere !
>Remember that only about 3% of the carbon dioxide produced comes from
>human endeavour.This includes everything , of which motoring is only a
>fraction. I think my central heating produces more than my cars over a
>year , but guess what.....the politicians only tax gas at 5% or so !

However, there's a real risk that we'll use up all the oil. Just been
reading a bit in the Notional Geographic about oil supplies, and how in
general oil supplies are getting more difficult to extract, as all the easy
fields are running lower. More expensive extraction will lead to higher
prices.

it also makes the point that the good ol' USofA has about 5% of the world
population yet consumes about 30% of the current oil production (IIRC). And
while the rest of the "first" world (e.g. europe) is busy developing more
efficient and economical cars, America seems to be returning to gas
guzzlers, in the form now of giant SUVs and "mini-vans" in place or
ordinary-sized cars.

such monstrosities as the Hummer and that obscene Cadillac.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Mon, 31 May 2004 06:40:59 +0100, "Mjolinor"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Sun, 30 May 2004 17:21:07 +0100, "Mjolinor"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >:
>> >> > It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your
>> >> petrol
>> >> > at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p) Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP
>> >and
>> >> > Esso."
>> >
>> >And who do you think make the petrol for Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and
>> >Morrisons?
>>
>> quite. but they sell at a lower profit or even zero profit to attract
>> custom.
>
>Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and Morrisons do but BP and the like make the profit
>just the same which is why the plan won't work.

well, aye. and besides, the supermarkets do a deal with BP et al to buy at
prices that ordinary franchise garages can't compete with. Not that I
approve, entirely...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On or around Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:24:50 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]>
enlightened us thusly:

>In message <40d6b88f.11454605@localhost>, myself <[email protected]> writes
>>There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......
><Snip>
>As a subscriber to uk.rec.cars.lpg to whom you have crossposted this
>ranting drivel, I don't think 30p per litre is too bad for my fuel,
>however much of it is made up by tax.

yer bloody lucky to get it for 30p...

local garage is 39.9, last lot I got in bulk was about 32.5.

Morrisons supermarket in Port Talbot, however, was 29.9 last I saw, a few
weeks ago.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

myself <[email protected]> wrote in message news:40d6b88f.11454605@localhost...
<snip>
> Remember that only about 3% of the carbon dioxide produced comes from
> human endeavour.This includes everything , of which motoring is only a
> fraction. I think my central heating produces more than my cars over a
> year , but guess what.....the politicians only tax gas at 5% or so !

I have sometimes wondered how the arithmetic works out -
A cyclist tends to get breathless uphill or against the wind, so produces
more carbon dioxide than a car driver sitting comfortably at the wheel. But
the car produces carbon dioxide from the exhaust as well as the driver's
contribution. A car (generally) completes a given distance faster than a
cyclist, so emits carbon dioxide from the exhaust for a shorter time. So
which mode of transport produces the most carbon dioxide per mile?
I bet the difference isn't as great as the anti-car lobby suggest!

Jim

In article <40d6b88f.11454605@localhost>, myself
<URL:mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
> There is no doubt that fuel tax levels are too high.......yes , there
> is a need for revenue to finance the NHS and schools

....and the Dome, EU, Olympic bid etc etc

--

>myself <[email protected]> wrote in message news:40d6b88f.11454605@localhost...
><snip>
>> Remember that only about 3% of the carbon dioxide produced comes
from
>> human endeavour.This includes everything , of which motoring is
only a
>> fraction. I think my central heating produces more than my cars
over a
>> year , but guess what.....the politicians only tax gas at 5% or so
!
>
>I have sometimes wondered how the arithmetic works out -
>A cyclist tends to get breathless uphill or against the wind, so
produces
>more carbon dioxide than a car driver sitting comfortably at the
wheel. But
>the car produces carbon dioxide from the exhaust as well as the
driver's
>contribution. A car (generally) completes a given distance faster
than a
>cyclist, so emits carbon dioxide from the exhaust for a shorter time.
So
>which mode of transport produces the most carbon dioxide per mile?
>I bet the difference isn't as great as the anti-car lobby suggest!

I think there are a couple of points here that make the difference.
First to move the person in the car, you have to move a ton+ of metal
with a much greater "footprint" for wind resistance. Compare this to
the weight and wind resistance of a push bike and I think you will
find something like an order of magnitude difference in work required.

Second is the source of the energy. To grow, say potatoes, eat them
and then expel the CO2 is overall carbon neutral. The same amount of
carbon is extracted by the plant as is expelled when you use it in the
body.

I am not convinced by the need for fuel tax. While the oil economy we
live in is inherently unsustainable, the alternatives are just not
being made available to the people of this country, unlike so many
around the world. Instead we get "punitive" fuel duty. On top of the
massive duty on alcohol and tobacco (that I think are much less
justifiable) these add up to a tax on the poor, as the poor spend a
far greater percentage of their income on these products. I reckon a
flat rate of income tax (42% perhaps) and no other tax at all.

In article <[email protected]>,
Sedge <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sure. I for one would prefer to pay all my taxes up front in PAYE.
> That way I could see exactly what tax I'm paying. The problem is that
> governments like to introduce more and more stealth taxes - they need
> to tax to improve services, but they don't have the spine to come
> clean and be honest.

If you remember back to the early '90s, this is exactly what the Labour
opposition proposed during the election campaign against a pretty
unpopular Tory government - and lost the election.
Hence sticking with - and extending - indirect taxation. It's apparently
what the electorate want. Of course, at least it means those who fiddle
their income tax - at both ends of the affluence scale - can't escape
paying taxes.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman [email protected] London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.