L322 Front suspension knock.

GDM · Sep 24, 2016

We bought a 2005 L322 back in February and shorty after we got it I noticed a slight knock from the front suspension. It has been off the road with gearbox issues for 2 months (I know, almost unheard of on one of these!) and driving it again over the past couple of weeks the knock seems to have got worse. It happens mostly at low speed over rough surfaces and isn't particularly bad but it is annoying never-the-less.

I have just jacked it up to take a look at the front suspension. The ARB links look to be fine and I can't detect any play in the ball joints, however, the bush at the rear of the track control arm seems to have some play in it on the NS and quite a lot more on the OS. When rocking the OS wheel at a quarter to three, with the steering lock on, there is a lot of visible movement in the track control arm bush, although the bush doesn't appear to have broken up at all. There is some wear on the inside of the OS front tyre which would be consistent with this bush being knackered.

Are these bushes a common failure, or is there anything else that I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Glen.

Saint.V8 · Sep 25, 2016

Bushes front and rear are prone to groaning and knocking on the L322....she is a fat ar$ed girl and the rears go quickly, front end starts to creek and groan with the odd knock....checking for play is difficult on these things due to the geometry of the system and also, she weighs so bl&&dy much she'll always feel solid when sat still.....

myfirstl322 · Sep 25, 2016

+1
Bottom ball joints are also prone to knocking.

holidaychicken · Sep 25, 2016

+ 1 more !
My front inner bushes were shot and I replaced all arms, tie rod and ball joints and still get a slight knock which I have read can be from Dunlop struts even when new.
i have of course also changed my rear top and bottom bushes which were both shot and the rear track control arm, which was seized and prevented the rear tracking from being adjusted.
A good 4 wheel alignment will tell you what's going on, the front is only adjustable for toe whereas the rear has camber and toe I believe or is it caster.
The pic is the inner bush on one of the fronts and second pic is nice I think

Why the pic is inverted I don't know, but you get the idea

GDM · Sep 27, 2016

Thanks chaps. It does sound like a knocking ball-joint but even with it jacked up I can't detect any play when levering them. As Saint says, maybe the geometry is stopping the movement showing up.

It's definitely the bush in the first photograph that Holidaychicken put up that is knackered on the driver's side. I was going to get it all sorted before doing a wheel alignment. I haven't looked at the rear end yet but that isn't knocking, at the moment.

With the exception of the track control arm not having the ball joint attached to it, the suspension set-up looks almost the same as my 2008 5 Series and I had to re-build that a couple of years ago too.

Maybe I should just bite the bullet and replace both arms and the additional ball joint on both sides. Where is a good place to get the parts? Island 4x4 have Delphi arms for about £60 + VAT.

holidaychicken · Sep 27, 2016

I have attached my shopping list, ignore the oil bits, i like island 4x4 and quite often find them the cheapest but i like brit car as i get to choose from a range of different manufacturers.
I think Delphi are a good option and i try to fit them when I can afford them.
You won't need the flange nut wither as i was changing out my CV joints also.
there may also have been other parts not on this list

GDM · Nov 6, 2016

Sorry Holidaychicken, I have only just seen your reply to this. I have used Island 4 x 4 a few times before, mostly for parts on our old TD5 Discovery, and have found them to be very good.

In the end I decided to bite the bullet and do a complete overhaul on the front suspension. I ordered all four arms, both ball joints and a pair of anti-roll bar links from Advanced Factors in Southampton. The arms are Bearmach, the ball joints are Borg and Beck, and the anti-roll bar links are heavy duty Meyle ones. Total cost, including new nuts, was about £220 including VAT and delivery.

Will make a start on it next weekend, assuming the weather is dry.

holidaychicken · Nov 7, 2016

Thats a good price, i tried to use more refined ball joint splitters but ended up needing the good old fashioned pickle fork type. i bought a set of 3 chinese ones of ebay as they need to be quite large.
Good luck
Andy

GDM · Nov 7, 2016

holidaychicken said:
Thats a good price, i tried to use more refined ball joint splitters but ended up needing the good old fashioned pickle fork type. i bought a set of 3 chinese ones of ebay as they need to be quite large.
Good luck
Andy

The arms are supposed to be OE quality and come with a 2 year guarantee. I have a decent ball joint splitter, the type that you expand by winding a bolt in, but from what you say will this not work?

holidaychicken · Nov 7, 2016

The lever type are good for the steering track rod end if you are not changing that but you can see from the fots attached that there isn't a lot of room for the others.
The bottom balljoint is a beeatch to get out of the hub, i did do a bit of a write up if you search my threads but heat, chisel, shock and unlock spray and hammer from memory.
I have a couple of really long 1/2" drive breaker bars which are fantastic and have a good read of rave but you need to torque up some of the bolts with the weight on the car so i drove up on a couple of railway sleepers to do the final torque otherwise you will really struggle to torque them up without a drive on ramp.

GDM · Nov 8, 2016

Ok. I found that splitter set on e-bay, so I will see if I can get one delivered before the weekend.

I think I read your post about the bottom ball-joint a few months back, so I was expecting that to be a PITA.

I did finally manage to get the workshop repair part of Rave opened this morning, after trying for about 30 minutes last night. The tightening procedure looks similar to my 2008 5 series, with an initial torque setting, then a certain number of degrees with the weight on the car. I have a large Teng 1/2" drive torque wrench, with an angle setting, so that should do the trick.

Thanks for all your advice.

GDM · Nov 9, 2016

Ok. In readiness for the next step, what parts are common wear items on the rear suspension?

GDM · Nov 13, 2016

Well, the splitter arrived on Thursday but unfortunately the rain arrived on Saturday! It eased up a bit on Saturday afternoon, so I thought I would tackle the front suspension. Ended up having a battle for almost two hours with the wheel nuts. The steel nut underneath had corroded and distorted the stainless covers. I managed to get a couple of the covers off and use a 21mm socket on the steel nut but then had to resort to driving a 22mm socket onto each in turn to get the rest off. Have ordered a set of 20 new nuts.

Because of this I didn't have enough time to fit the new arms today, so I re-painted the calipers and the centre of the discs and did a few other small jobs.

Will have to wait for another dry weekend when the car is not being used.

holidaychicken · Nov 13, 2016

Apologies, I am not getting notifications for this thread and just stumbled across it.
I have a suspension knock that I am contacting Dunlop about as faulty Dunlop struts can be a cause.
I have changed out my rear upper and lower bushes and track control arms so I'll dig out my shopping list when I'm back on my pc.
The rear involves presstools and the bolts for my track control arms were seized and had to be cut off.
And yes I had the same issue with the wheel nuts and replaced all of them after hammering a socket on to get them off.
Stand by for update

GDM · Nov 20, 2016

Well the weather was good today, so I managed to going with the front suspension overhaul at 10:00.
I started on the off-side and everything came apart fairly easily, except, as expected, the bottom ball-joint which bolts into the hub. I tried to get a cold chisel under the flange, tried beating it down from above with a drift, then tried chiselling it around, then gave it a blast with the blow-lamp and another beating from above with the drift but to no avail. I then sharpened up my 2" wide electricians bolster, which has a thin blade, got that under the flange and it started moving. Another beating from above with drift and it was out.
Got the off-side reassembled, then tackled the near-side, and had the ball-joint out in a couple of minutes with the bolster and drift.
Managed to get the near-side all back together and changed both the ARB links.
Then one of our ponies had a bout of collick, so that was it for the day.
I just need to tighten the arm to sub-frame bolts up and re-fit the wheels, which I can do with a head-torch one evening.
Because I butchered the bolt in ball-joints I couldn't check for play in those but both tension strut bushes were completely fcuked. The ball joints and bushes on the radius arms didn't seem to be too bad at all.
Will battle the rear wheel nuts and check the back bushes next. The MOT runs out on 3rd January, so I need to get it booked in for a test before Christmas.

holidaychicken · Nov 21, 2016

Good effort, Dont forget to tighten the inner pivot bolts with the weight on the wheels.
if you were doing the job again you could do it blindfolded !
From memory I ground up my cold chisel to a really thin end as well for the bottom ball joint.
Did you use your pickle fork splitter?

GDM · Nov 21, 2016

holidaychicken said:
Good effort, Dont forget to tighten the inner pivot bolts with the weight on the wheels.
if you were doing the job again you could do it blindfolded !
From memory I ground up my cold chisel to a really thin end as well for the bottom ball joint.
Did you use your pickle fork splitter?

Thanks, yes, same procedure as my 5 series for the pivot bolts. I should be able to do it with the wheel off and my trolley jack under the radius arm ball joint, as it has a large rubber pad on the jack cradle. Just waiting for a fine evening to get it finished.
The N/S took about half the time, having already done the O/S. You can see how specialists in one particular make get so quick at doing certain jobs.
The sharp, thin, wide chisel was certainly the key to the bolt in joint.
Yes, used the pickle fork splitter. It seems pretty well made for what it cost and it did the job well. Fine or when you don't mind butchering the rubber boots.
Thanks again for your help and I will add another post when I have had a look at the rear bushes.

holidaychicken · Nov 21, 2016

here's a bit of info i have from doing my rears. The worst bit was changing the track control arm as the inner bolt had seized solid in the bush so i had to cut either end off with an air hacksaw which took forever but in hindsight i would probably cut either side off with a 1 mm cut off wheel in a small grinder. i was a bit chicken about the sparks but i think i would just wet a towel and push it in around where the sparks could go.
I had mine 4 wheel aligned at kwik fit after as i have a good one near me in strood, the guys there are **** hot

One tip that really helped me in getting the bolts back in was to release the handbrake as again i messed around for ages and then read somewhere about letting off the handbrake and they fell in...
I followed this thread over on the competition website..

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post140711.html#140711,

And i bought one of these which was really useful
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL...UK-/252502102012?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

The last pic is upside down for some reason

GDM · Nov 22, 2016

holidaychicken said:
here's a bit of info i have from doing my rears. The worst bit was changing the track control arm as the inner bolt had seized solid in the bush so i had to cut either end off with an air hacksaw which took forever but in hindsight i would probably cut either side off with a 1 mm cut off wheel in a small grinder. i was a bit chicken about the sparks but i think i would just wet a towel and push it in around where the sparks could go.
I had mine 4 wheel aligned at kwik fit after as i have a good one near me in strood, the guys there are **** hot

One tip that really helped me in getting the bolts back in was to release the handbrake as again i messed around for ages and then read somewhere about letting off the handbrake and they fell in...
I followed this thread over on the competition website..

http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/post140711.html#140711,

And i bought one of these which was really useful
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL...UK-/252502102012?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

The last pic is upside down for some reason

View attachment 111154 View attachment 111155 View attachment 111156 View attachment 111157 View attachment 111158

Thanks for that information, very useful.

I have to say that's the first time I have heard of any Kwik Fit employees being sh*t hot at anything! I usually avoid our local ones.

Got the front arms bolted up this evening and the car back on the ground but I haven't road tested it yet. I did take the N/S rear wheel off to check the rear bushes and I couldn't find any significant play in any of them. I will check the O/S and, if nothing obvious there, then I will probably just put it in for its MOT next month and see what happens.

holidaychicken · Nov 23, 2016

It is unusual for Kwik Fit but I have known these guys for years so I do get looked after but probably not the same everywhere.
Good luck with the MOT, that's when mine were picked up as they get a pry bar under the wheel and give it a lever to check for play but you may be ok

L322 Front suspension knock.

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