From frustrating to really rather quite annoying - Transfer Box I think....

As some of you will already have read, out 1991 Defender 110 CSW is currently on ebay due to knackered chassis that is to much for us to contend with currently so has to go (shameless plug over) so the other half has been driving my 1988 110 CSW and I got myself a cheap baby Bimmer to bomb around for a while as we sort a few things out.

Anywho, I gets a phone call this morning from the girlfriend saying the '88 all of a sudden made a loud metallic bang, them some grinding from the centre around the gearbox/transfer box area so she clutched, popped into neutral and coasted into a safe parking spot...all the time the grinding and grounching noises continued.

I head over in the little E36 Bimmer from work to see whats what.....

I hop in, clutch, start engine, high box, 1st gear and she goes forward but with some horrible pinging, clanging and grinding...OK, reverse....noises similar.

So, into low box, 1st gear and the same happens. And again in reverse.

OK, into gearbox neutral and I try to pull and push the car manually....still horrible noises and she locks up.

Right then, Transfer box into neutral, gearbox in neutral I try to push and pull her again, still horrible noises and she locks up.

So, attach a tow rope to the back of the Bimmer and give her a tug...Transfer neutral and main box neutral....she grinds and grounches and then stops dead (not that I gave it the top beans as I didn't want to truly feck something on the Landy - but enough grunt to try and get her going).

So, OK she won't move in neutral in either box and won't drive herself anywhere in either high or low box forward or reverse....lets disconnect the props and tug her the 1/2 mile or so back home.

So I disconnect the front and rear props at the diff ends and tie them up out the way, the rear prop/hand brake drum at the Transfer Box end seems a tad loose i.e. the prop flange is bolted securely to the drum/output flange, but the output flange seems loose - a couple of months ago I replaced the output flange as the previous and worked loose and striped the flange splines (I have a thread about it on here somewhere!)....replaced with a brand new flange, felt washer, washer and nut, spot of Loctite and torqued to the correct figure - so I am a bit miffed it is loose again - well, I think it is I haven't had the handbrake drum off yet to inspect....

With the props off, she is free as a bird and we tow her back home and put back in front of the garage with wheel chocks in place as the rear prop is disconnected so obviously no handbrake!!

I am thinking the Transfer box has gone south....

Any tests or inspections I can do as part of the diagnosis? And in an effort to sound to much like Dr Gregory House - Does anyone have a differential diagnosis that could point to the main box and how to check etc?

The fun and joy of Land Rover ownership - it is testing at times, but worth it!

Doesn't sound good ...

My first step, especially as you're getting no change in symptoms in Hi or Lo, in or out of gear, would be to remove the transfer gearbox and play on the bench with it, I mean, ascertain if it's broken .. If it all works fine on the bench then move to the gearbox and clutch ....

As usual, small steps, one at a time, testing as you go .. Good luck!

I wouldn't worry about the t box until you know what's behind the handbrake drum. Looseness and jamming handbrake sound quite likely to me.

Whip the handbrake drum off first, it's easiest and quite possibly the most likely fault, if all is well there drain the oil from the transfer box, looking for metal bits and take the bottom cover off for a look.

Yes, I think the first thing is to remove the hand brake drum again and take a goosey at the output flange etc....

Will report back tomorrow evening once done.

OK, so taken off the props completely now so I can turn the flanges and run the engine without moving the car etc.

The rear output flange was loose again, but the nut was still on and only unwound by a thread or so....still, a bit miffed as to why, but that has not caused the current failure.

When you rotate one of the flanges, the opposite one will rotate in the opposite direction smoothly with no notchy-ness or grinding. A small amount of backlash, but nothing excessive at all. But, if you try to rotate both flanges in the same direction, even with a pair of 2' bars it is locked solid.

So, with the engine running here are a few results:

Main Box Transfer Box Result
---------------------------------------------
Neutral High No Noise
1st High Minor grounching
2nd High More grounching
3rd High Worse, engine speed dips
4th High Worse, engine tries to stall
5th High Horrible, engine on the pint of stalling if clutch brought fully up

Neutral Low A few noises but nothing horrible
1st Low Hmmm, not sounding nice, engine speed dips
2nd Low Oh, that really doesn't sound good, engine on the point of stalling if coming up to far on the clutch
3rd Low Horrible, Engine wants to stall
4th Low Nope, really doesn't want to know now
5th Low Engine is on the brink of stalling as the clutch comes up

With TB in neutral, you can go through the main box gears and aside from a light rumbling of the gears meshing nothing untoward.

Managed to get the TB back into High ratio again, but now it refuses to shift back to neutral or low, it is locked solid, even with a few rocks on the clutch and box in gear, it refuses to change ratio now.

Time to drop the transfer box I think.....

Tell me, is the Transfer Box bolted to the Main Box or is it just pushed together? (LT77 and LT230)

Hi don't think it matters which gearbox it is, think there is 5 bolts 3 top and sides , one at bottom that screws into trans box and one hidden were the linkages are on the trans box that screws into the box as well normally covered in dirt which is why you can't see it . Think that's right .
cheers Ian

As above bolted together. They normally require a bit of prising/careful bashing to separate as well. The fact that all's sounds well with the TB in neutral make me suspect the TB.

Sounds like the transfer box is dead, you don't say what engine you've got, but it could be worth replacing it with a Discovery transfer box whilst it is out.(Depends on your current combination)
Could be worth draining the oil first just to make sure it is the transfer box, just in case, you may want to drain it before removal anyway.

Oil was drained earlier and the inspection plate on the bottom removed - sorry should have said.

No contamination or horrible bits in there, a few shavings on the drain plug, but nothing to run home to mummy about!

The engine is a 300Tdi transplanted from a Disco mated to the original LT77 box using a 2.5NA short bellhousing and the original 1.6 Land Rover 110 Transfer Box. I have seen a 1.211 Ratio transfer box from a Disco that I would think is a good fit - our previous 110 had an R380 and Transfer Box from a Disco and that was nicely geared and crusied well......this current 110 will get to 70 (just) but the engine is really pumping to get there!!

I have a 300tdi in an ex-military 110, I know what you mean about the 1.6-1 transfer box. I fitted a 1.2-1 transfer box in mine and it transformed it, although I wouldn't want it any higher. I still run 750's on mine, taller tyres may also be an issue with the 1.2-1 box. I found that 3rd gear ends up where 5th used to be.
To get back to your problem, I'm surprised that there is no debris coming out with the oil, but if something has snapped then who knows.
You have done most of the pain in the ass stuff if you have removed the props, there aren't too many bolts holding it to the main box.
If you use a Discovery transfer box the rear output housing is slightly different and you need to either drill and tap the housing to accept the Land Rover hand brake bracket or use the housing off the 1.6-1 box. You also need to use the complete Land Rover handbrake and speedo drive.
If you use the rear housing off the 1.6-1 box it could be worth budgeting for a new bearing s yours may be goosed.
I do wonder if your mystery slackening flange nut is a sign of the bearing collapsing, could be worth removing the hand brake, back plate and output housing just to see what is going on in there.
When you take the transfer box out you will need some straps to lower it to the ground and a helper if you can con someone.
If you swap transfer boxes you will find that there are one or two steel dowels between the main box and the transfer box, sometimes they stay in the main box, sometimes the transfer box, so make sure you don't double up or it won't fit.

For what it's worth when I changed my T box I cut the heads off 3 long bolts and screwed them into the G box to help take the weight/line up correctly. Also found it helped to take out the G box mounts to get a better angle.

Thanks for the guidance chaps. Yes, I had heard a couple of long guides are the way to go in getting it out.

I have an engine crane, a 3 tonne Yankee a 12 tonne bottle and various bits of wood, so hopefully won't damage to much on the way out.

Replacement purchased and due for delivery after weekend, so I'll whip it out at the weekend, and also the transfer box

How best to sling the TB to prevent it rolling over and going bang!

Update time.

Managed to get the old transfer box out.

Undo the lever linkages, remove the breather pipe, undo 4 of the 6 bolts holding the TB and GB together leaving the top two attached, remove the wore to the diff lock switch, place jack under GB for support and loosen the GB mounted rubber nut on the bracket, undo the 4 19mm bolts holding the TB rubber mount on and then remove the bracket from the chasssis (gave me more wiggle room), wrap a wide webbing sling around the box and support on crane through passenger front door, undo the last two bolts and carefully lever the TB off the GB.

Lower to the ground.

New one was fitted back in place after giving the GB output splines a good looking at and all looks well with no wear.

Refilled the TB with fresh oil and then drained and refilled the GB too.

Props fitted back on and taken for a drive....all is well, will need a new front prop though as the UJ is loose.

Will be stripping the old box out to find out what is wrong but it is locked up solid. I removed the input gear and the is no wear on the splines and the bearings and gears are in perfect condition, looks like it has been run dry in the past but no debris found as yet.

Will report back once I get a chance to take it apart further.

Saint.V8 said:

Update time.

Managed to get the old transfer box out.

Undo the lever linkages, remove the breather pipe, undo 4 of the 6 bolts holding the TB and GB together leaving the top two attached, remove the wore to the diff lock switch, place jack under GB for support and loosen the GB mounted rubber nut on the bracket, undo the 4 19mm bolts holding the TB rubber mount on and then remove the bracket from the chasssis (gave me more wiggle room), wrap a wide webbing sling around the box and support on crane through passenger front door, undo the last two bolts and carefully lever the TB off the GB.

Lower to the ground.

New one was fitted back in place after giving the GB output splines a good looking at and all looks well with no wear.

Refilled the TB with fresh oil and then drained and refilled the GB too.

Props fitted back on and taken for a drive....all is well, will need a new front prop though as the UJ is loose.

Will be stripping the old box out to find out what is wrong but it is locked up solid. I removed the input gear and the is no wear on the splines and the bearings and gears are in perfect condition, looks like it has been run dry in the past but no debris found as yet.

Will report back once I get a chance to take it apart further.

Click to expand...

It'll be some stupid little spring/ball bearing/ collar thing that fell/pinged into the meshings and stuck ...

Good luck with it anyway... it might be fixable to recoup some on your new one ...