Freelanders last breath......
- Thread starter CPD1973
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T
That's normal on anything but a new engine matey. Engine/cam/tappet/spring wear is why the cams won't line up exactly on old engines. I've just done an impreza wrx turbo and all of the cams were slightly off but that doesn't matter or make a difference. My point was in his method of fitting the belt. I'm a mechanic by trade and I can tell you for a fact these belts should be fitted starting at the crank not the cam. What method you use will effect the result.
Rossco
That's normal on anything but a new engine matey. Engine/cam/tappet/spring wear is why the cams won't line up exactly on old engines. I've just done an impreza wrx turbo and all of the cams were slightly off but that doesn't matter or make a difference. My point was in his method of fitting the belt. I'm a mechanic by trade and I can tell you for a fact these belts should be fitted starting at the crank not the cam. What method you use will effect the result.
Rossco
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It will if it was badly timed enough to bend the valve heads on the pistons.
that's not badly timed matey that's fu***d lol. Ive fitted hundreds of belts and chains to keyd and un keyd cams cranks and in my early days made mistakes as we all do. Believe me I've seen a fair few wrongly timed engines that ran like ****e but never tapped at all, you'd need either ****ed valves or tappets for them to get noisey, that or no oil.
Rossco
Alibro
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I'm a bit confused by this, Unless the teeth on the cam and/or crank pulleys wear excessively heavily they must line up. It's impossible for them not to.
The belt has a defined number of teeth which doesn't change and the pulleys likewise.
Unless a pulley is 1 tooth out or you have the wrong belt they have to line up correctly. Especially if it lined up correctly before you started.
Maybe you could explain how toothed pulleys can move to be out of alignment, always willing to be proven wrong.
CPD1973
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They are not heavily worn and my thinking was it can’t matter which way the belt goes on as long as everything is lined up and jammed so it can’t move..... I did this by lining up the cam pulley timing marks and then worked the belt down the front of the car and then the back, everything was locked in all that was left was to push it onto the crank pulley and I did thus, checked to see if everything was still lined up and it was, turned the engine over on the crank bolt a few tines, retentioned, checked my marks and thought “great that worked ok” it may not be the “done way” but it seemed to work. Happy to do it the “proper way” as I want to get better at stuff not worse.... but surely if it’s all still lined up I am ok ?
Alibro
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I was thinking about this again and I've come to the conclusion that many 1.8's have their timing belt refitted wrongly. Most folk use a locking tool to stop the cams from turning which is great but makes it virtually impossible to fit the belt correctly.
If the cams are locked and the crank is on it's mark you will NEVER make the belt tight enough to go around the crank and seat in the correct tooth. If you fit it a bit loose and feed it around the rest of the system then as soon as you release the cams and turn the engine over a few times the tension will pull the cams out of alignment by about half a tooth.
In fact I take back what I said earlier about 1 cam being out by 1 tooth makes them both out by 1/2, in fact it is the crank out by 1 tooth that makes the cams out by 1/2.
This is why I said earlier you must turn either the crank back a fraction or the cam forward a fraction to seat the belt then turn whichever you moved back to the home position with the belt fixed.
At least the last 4 times I did it that is what I had to do and every time I fitted a belt the cams lined up perfectly regardless of mileage.
If the cams are locked and the crank is on it's mark you will NEVER make the belt tight enough to go around the crank and seat in the correct tooth. If you fit it a bit loose and feed it around the rest of the system then as soon as you release the cams and turn the engine over a few times the tension will pull the cams out of alignment by about half a tooth.
In fact I take back what I said earlier about 1 cam being out by 1 tooth makes them both out by 1/2, in fact it is the crank out by 1 tooth that makes the cams out by 1/2.
This is why I said earlier you must turn either the crank back a fraction or the cam forward a fraction to seat the belt then turn whichever you moved back to the home position with the belt fixed.
At least the last 4 times I did it that is what I had to do and every time I fitted a belt the cams lined up perfectly regardless of mileage.
CPD1973
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It’s a fine art ! Still raining as per usual so not going to get onto it until this weekend at which point I will have a good look and if necessary refit the timing belt the CORRECT way ! Just to say I started it this morning and she kicked of on the first turn of the key, still not running quite right. When you rev the engine it runs out longer than it should before dropping back to idle. And the cracked coils will need looking at if, and when everything else is done the engine is still not quite right. As always thanks for all the help, I am enjoying learning even through my mistakes. Col
Holding revs is the function of the idle air control valve. They all do that, and some folks go to the extent of putting in a restrictive in the IACV air feed pipe. Good idea on a lotus, pointless on a Freelander
Fingers crossed, all is not doom and gloom!
Fingers crossed, all is not doom and gloom!
Toothed pulleys can't go out of alignment in there normal service intervals, that's why they're used.
A belt that has stretched will retard the timing slightly, but only a by few tenths of a degree.
CPD1973
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Ok update. First dry day for ages...... getting good at timing belt adjustment now...... as previously pointed out I had put the timing belt on wrong, I started at the cam pulleys rather than the crank..... so when I checked today low and behold the timing was out a notch on the crank...... put the belt back on the CORECT way and reassembled. Started after a few turns and sounds a lot better, took it for a quick run up the hill and back without problems. Switched it of went for lunch came out and it started on the first turn of the key. I have got a pressure test kit of flee bay and will test the cylinders this afternoon. It’s not running perfect (missing a little bit) but a LOT better and smoother. If the pressure test Is within tolerance I will look at replacing the coils as 3 of them have cracked casings,
Question - how does the cracked plastic on the coils effect the performance?
Question - how does the cracked plastic on the coils effect the performance?
Alibro
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Great news, hopefully new plug leads and coil packs will sort the missfire
Now you're an expert at fitting timing belts, how did you get it right this time? Although my method worked I was never convinced it was the best or easiest way to do it.
CPD1973
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Pretty sure I did it your way....
put it on the crank and jammed in a wedge worked it up the front of the car and over the cam and wedged it. Then back to the crank and worked it up past the water pump and tensioner, took out the cam locking tool and turned the back cam back half a notch, fed the belt on and put pressure on the cam to realign and it then just slipped into place perfectly. Tensioned it up, turned the engine round three times, re tensioned it, turned it round another three times. Check and retention ! And put it all back together. Felt really comfortable doing it this time. Learnt a lot from this experience. Will see if it starts tomorrow.....
put it on the crank and jammed in a wedge worked it up the front of the car and over the cam and wedged it. Then back to the crank and worked it up past the water pump and tensioner, took out the cam locking tool and turned the back cam back half a notch, fed the belt on and put pressure on the cam to realign and it then just slipped into place perfectly. Tensioned it up, turned the engine round three times, re tensioned it, turned it round another three times. Check and retention ! And put it all back together. Felt really comfortable doing it this time. Learnt a lot from this experience. Will see if it starts tomorrow.....
CPD1973
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Started first time this morning, ticking over really well and only a very slight intermittent spluttering from the engine, probably due to the cracked coil packs. Really relived that I did not total it with the botched timing fiasco...... I am not going to curse myself but I am looking forward to saying “it lives again !” And putting it back into use for my dad and as a back up car for me while I finish rebuilding my defender axle..... ok going to go and to the pressure test as the sun is out.
CPD1973
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Ok pressure tested the psi of the cylinders, 175 175 180 175 i am assuming this is a fairly good result as they are all very similar ?
Alibro
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I could never get the belt tight enough between the crank and the exhaust cam without moving the cam a little.
Good to hear it you managed it.
That sounds about right
Those are good and even pressures, showing the engine is in perfect health.
CPD1973
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Ok I will say it. “The Freelander lives again” been driving it back and forth to the ferry with no problems. Will get on and give it a good clean and waxoil when the weather permits. A BIG thanks to all the encouragement and help this forum has provided. If your one of the people who have helped me out on this thread and find yourself in my neck of the woods let me know and I will pick you up in the car and give you a guided tour of my little bit of paradise. Thanks again and I think this will be my last post on this thread as it’s done it’s duty. I am sure I will post other cries for help on new threads when siht hits the fan but right now it’s all good to go. Photo from the Where my “Freelander lives again” ! / top of my garden.
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Congrats on coming to a successful conclusion.
