Freelander 1 Freelander EV

Alibro said:

If we make it a day next summer I'll be there!


Probably.

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Make it 2023. that's my hippos 21st birthday, so she can get the tour as a birthday present.

Jayridium said:

Make it 2023. that's my hippos 21st birthday, so she can get the tour as a birthday present.

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all we need to do is make sure John has finished his bathroom by then.

kernowsvenski said:

all we need to do is make sure John has finished his bathroom by then.

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I'm almost done with that now.
Next I'm replacing the head on Budy the FL2.

I started looking at locating stuff under the bonnet and it looks like although there is a lot of room it is kinda awkwardly shaped.
But I have to start somewhere so like the rad has a fixed location the power steering pump is also pretty well fixed on the drivers side, near the front. I could have custom made hoses and locate it anywhere but I'm trying as much as possible to avoid solving problems by just throwing money at them so the final location will be close to oem.
As mentioned a long time ago I plan to use an alternator adapted to run as a motor to drive the Freelander PS pump with a short belt. It will be driven by an ebike controller and a 48V battery pack. This might be a dumb idea but I proved it works, is much quieter than the Zafira pump many people use and will not be a drain on the 12V battery. There is no reason why I can't have an on board charger connected to the main 240V charger socket so that the 48V pack charges at the same time as the main pack. So long as I over spec the 48V battery it will have more than enough juice to last the 100 or so miles (or 2 to 3 hours) range of the car and if necessary I can always use a 12V to 48V boost converter to help keep the 48V battery charged.
This is the video I made months ago showing the setup.



There is one big issue causing this to be much noisier than it needs to be and that is the controller. It is a cheap nasty square wave controller which causes the motor to make the high pitched squeal. I changed my ebike from a similar controller to a KT Sine Wave controller and the difference was amazing so a similar change would help a lot, however I cannot do that with the setup as it is since the KT controller needs to see Hall Effect sensors in the motor.
The current drain and excess heat caused by the constant 5V to the rotor is also an issue but this can be sorted by replacing the coils with a magnet so if I do that I'll also install hall sensors in the alternator.
That is a whole other project which may happen someday but this guy has proven it is possible and works.




Another potential issue with this idea is heat. When I use the alternator as a motor on my ebike it gets a bit warmer than I would like so to try and mitigate this I've ordered a 180A BMW alternator. These are cheaply available off ebay and hopefully it will help as the alternator I have is only 110A.
At 14V 110A is 1500W and 180A is 2500W.
The setup I had in the video at 36V was drawing around 4A at idle and 8 or 9A when turning but I had no engine in the car so turning the wheels was easy, with a heavy car the current drawn could go as high as 15A which is over 500W. I'm probably over thinking this but I want to try and over spec as much as possible to make sure nothing is being strained. I've also ordered a shorter drive belt to try and save a bit of space.

Of course the location where I want to mount the alternator and PS pump is also where the mount for the front battery box will be so I decided to make the front battery box support first and will add brackets for the other two when I get the new alternator and belt.

This is the base of the battery box, the Inverter is just sitting where I think it will go but that may change depending on other decisions.



There should be room for another two large battery modules above and below these two.
I have to be honest and say having the batteries so far forward in the engine bay is not ideal (from an accident perspective) but with the available space it is the most logical location.



The PS pump will be above the alternator so I moved the washer bottle filler a couple of inches to make room.

Small change to this plan.



This is a VW Passat 180A alternator that I bought locally off Gumtree for only £15
I probably should have resold it as new because it looks like it has never been used. It was sold to me as maybe good or maybe bad but I couldn't see anything wrong with it but it's too late as it is now a motor.
There are a couple of reasons for using this alternator instead of the one I already had. First it was a 180A alternator and my old one was 110A so as a motor it should be able to handle more power, 14V x 110A is 1500W (ish) and 14V x 180A is 2500W so a significant upgrade. I don't know if the old altimotor would have struggled as the power required for PS should be 500W max but I wanted to be sure. When I used the old one as an ebike motor it would get quite hot with an 800W controller and this new alternator is significantly bigger and heavier so should be a OK.
The other thing is I wanted to make a video of the process using a commonly available alternator and this type is very common on ebay for around £20.
The only issue with this altimotor is the clutch which I believe will be working against me here so I've ordered the removal tool and will swap it for the pulley on the old one.

This is it on the frame with the PS Pump more or less in it's final location. I'll need more bracing and a way to adjust tension but it's getting there

A bit more welding done this evening.



The bigger the gob the better the job.

Looking good Ali. I think going overkill on the alternator capacity is a sensible choice.
You want something that will last, so over-rating definitely helps long term reliability.
The over-run clutch is there to eliminate belt flutter when installed on an engine, but as you say, it'll be working against you here.

If you can, remove it without damaging it, as they have a value. I need to replace the clutch on my FL2 alternator, and was surprised by how expensive it was, hence I've not changed it yet.


Good to see the progress though.
Are you going to use some form of active control for the PS pump? This would reduce battery drain when driving straight, but increas assistance when maneuvering? Just a thought, although it's likely difficult to implement, for the minimal gains you get.

Nodge68 said:

Looking good Ali. I think going overkill on the alternator capacity is a sensible choice.
You want something that will last, so over-rating definitely helps long term reliability.
The over-run clutch is there to eliminate belt flutter when installed on an engine, but as you say, it'll be working against you here.

If you can, remove it without damaging it, as they have a value. I need to replace the clutch on my FL2 alternator, and was surprised by how expensive it was, hence I've not changed it yet.


Good to see the progress though.
Are you going to use some form of active control for the PS pump? This would reduce battery drain when driving straight, but increas assistance when maneuvering? Just a thought, although it's likely difficult to implement, for the minimal gains you get.

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Yes mate that is the plan, I've ordered a spline tool to remove it carefully so you're welcome to it if you think it will fit. I'm pretty sure this is brand new OEM, not cheap Chinese copy off Ebay.

As for the controlling it I can set the speed of the motor using an Arduino with a small circuit to supply 0 - 5V. This is fairly easy to do but the clever bit will be telling the Arduino to throttle down as the speed increases. That will be a whole project in itself so initially I'll set the speed with a Pot to give the equivalent of around 800rpm.

Alibro said:

Yes mate that is the plan, I've ordered a spline tool to remove it carefully so you're welcome to it if you think it will fit.

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Unfortunately the over-run clutch on my FL2 looks completely different, but thanks for the offer.

Alibro said:

As for the controlling it I can set the speed of the motor using an Arduino with a small circuit to supply 0 - 5V. This is fairly easy to do but the clever bit will be telling the Arduino to throttle down as the speed increases. That will be a whole project in itself so initially I'll set the speed with a Pot to give the equivalent of around 800rpm.

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Maybe it's a later implementation Ali, once you've got it on the road and running. A kind of fine tuning if you like.

I love the term 'Altimotor'

Brilliant project though. A helluva lot more than I could take on.

Nodge68 said:

Unfortunately the over-run clutch on my FL2 looks completely different, but thanks for the offer.


Maybe it's a later implementation Ali, once you've got it on the road and running. A kind of fine tuning if you like.

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No worries mate. When I get it off I'll send some photos but if your alternator is Valeo it will probably fit. I'ts just whether it will work correctly in your situation.

As for the future updates there will be lots of those.

Rank Amatuer said:

I love the term 'Altimotor'

Brilliant project though. A helluva lot more than I could take on.

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Thanks mate, I'm not certain I can take it on either but just doing it slowly eating it one bite at a time.


While I'm waiting for stuff to arrive I'm looking into mounting other bits like the inverter, HV contactor box and charger under the bonnet so I need to build a cradle.
I'm planning to use the three torx 55 bolts for the engine/motor mount on the drivers side and a couple of the bolts for the gearbox mount to support it. 'Cause I don't want to drill any more holes than necessary or weld brackets to the chassis.
Does anyone think this will be an issue for the MOT folk? It won't be all that heavy in real terms and I'll probably find a way to support it from the new battery box too so it will be well supported but I wasn't sure how the testers would react to seeing the engine mount bolts being used for a dual purpose. In reality these bolts don't support any weight as they are on the side of the chassis arms and really only prevent the engine from twisting.

Alibro said:

Does anyone think this will be an issue for the MOT folk? It won't be all that heavy in real terms and I'll probably find a way to support it from the new battery box too so it will be well supported but I wasn't sure how the testers would react to seeing the engine mount bolts being used for a dual purpose. In reality these bolts don't support any weight as they are on the side of the chassis arms and really only prevent the engine from twisting.

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Presumably this type of conversion will necessitate the kind of test that a new kit car undergoes?

kernowsvenski said:

Presumably this type of conversion will necessitate the kind of test that a new kit car undergoes?

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I don't believe so. It's worthiness should be as simple as a change of fuel type with the DVLA, and an MOT. It could require an engineers report, but I doubt it.

Alibro said:

Does anyone think this will be an issue for the MOT folk? It won't be all that heavy in real terms and I'll probably find a way to support it from the new battery box too so it will be well supported but I wasn't sure how the testers would react to seeing the engine mount bolts being used for a dual purpose. In reality these bolts don't support any weight as they are on the side of the chassis arms and really only prevent the engine from twisting

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I reckon it'll be fine Ali.

Nodge68 said:

I reckon it'll be fine Ali.

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Thanks John, I figured that too and carried on making the plate to fit on the drivers side.
This is the CAD template ready to cut out.



As you can see I marked the steel a little bigger than required as I want to put a flange all the way round for strength. It might be over kill but it makes me happy.

This is it cut out with the template on top.


And after an hour or so of bending and bashing


Unfortunately after making this I discovered a hidden Torx 55 bolt that I can't access without removing the motor mount I built so I'll probably just cut this bracket to fit around the bolt. I think three heavy duty bolts plus the fact it is a snug fit inside the OEM bracket should be enough to hold it.

Alibro said:

I started looking at locating stuff under the bonnet and it looks like although there is a lot of room it is kinda awkwardly shaped.
But I have to start somewhere so like the rad has a fixed location the power steering pump is also pretty well fixed on the drivers side, near the front. I could have custom made hoses and locate it anywhere but I'm trying as much as possible to avoid solving problems by just throwing money at them so the final location will be close to oem.
As mentioned a long time ago I plan to use an alternator adapted to run as a motor to drive the Freelander PS pump with a short belt. It will be driven by an ebike controller and a 48V battery pack. This might be a dumb idea but I proved it works, is much quieter than the Zafira pump many people use and will not be a drain on the 12V battery. There is no reason why I can't have an on board charger connected to the main 240V charger socket so that the 48V pack charges at the same time as the main pack. So long as I over spec the 48V battery it will have more than enough juice to last the 100 or so miles (or 2 to 3 hours) range of the car and if necessary I can always use a 12V to 48V boost converter to help keep the 48V battery charged.
This is the video I made months ago showing the setup.



There is one big issue causing this to be much noisier than it needs to be and that is the controller. It is a cheap nasty square wave controller which causes the motor to make the high pitched squeal. I changed my ebike from a similar controller to a KT Sine Wave controller and the difference was amazing so a similar change would help a lot, however I cannot do that with the setup as it is since the KT controller needs to see Hall Effect sensors in the motor.
The current drain and excess heat caused by the constant 5V to the rotor is also an issue but this can be sorted by replacing the coils with a magnet so if I do that I'll also install hall sensors in the alternator.
That is a whole other project which may happen someday but this guy has proven it is possible and works.




Another potential issue with this idea is heat. When I use the alternator as a motor on my ebike it gets a bit warmer than I would like so to try and mitigate this I've ordered a 180A BMW alternator. These are cheaply available off ebay and hopefully it will help as the alternator I have is only 110A.
At 14V 110A is 1500W and 180A is 2500W.
The setup I had in the video at 36V was drawing around 4A at idle and 8 or 9A when turning but I had no engine in the car so turning the wheels was easy, with a heavy car the current drawn could go as high as 15A which is over 500W. I'm probably over thinking this but I want to try and over spec as much as possible to make sure nothing is being strained. I've also ordered a shorter drive belt to try and save a bit of space.

Of course the location where I want to mount the alternator and PS pump is also where the mount for the front battery box will be so I decided to make the front battery box support first and will add brackets for the other two when I get the new alternator and belt.

This is the base of the battery box, the Inverter is just sitting where I think it will go but that may change depending on other decisions.

View attachment 247308

There should be room for another two large battery modules above and below these two.
I have to be honest and say having the batteries so far forward in the engine bay is not ideal (from an accident perspective) but with the available space it is the most logical location.

View attachment 247310

The PS pump will be above the alternator so I moved the washer bottle filler a couple of inches to make room.
View attachment 247309

Click to expand...

This thread dropped off my alerts, so have only just caught up.

Looking good Ali. Nice setup.

I wish my L Series had that much space next to the drivers side chassis rail - I'd be bold enough top tackle the cam belt.

Thought you might be interested in this. A bloke over here repowering a '75 military 110 with the motor out of a 2017 Leaf.

https://activeautomation.co.nz/ev-workshop-1985-land-rover-defender

He's got a couple of other interesting vehicles he's converting to and a YouTube channel...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8F-FheCN771jTYLdRBSBGw

GrumpyGel said:

Thought you might be interested in this. A bloke over here repowering a '75 military 110 with the motor out of a 2017 Leaf.

https://activeautomation.co.nz/ev-workshop-1985-land-rover-defender

He's got a couple of other interesting vehicles he's converting to and a YouTube channel...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8F-FheCN771jTYLdRBSBGw

Click to expand...

Thanks GG, some good work there and happening much faster than mine.
The English is a tad hard to follow and the spelling is terrible so I'm guessing a bit Dyslexic like myself but obviously no shortage of brains.
Somehow I managed to be dyslexic and with a distinct shortage of brains
But at least I'm smart enough to use a speling cheker.

Alibro said:

Somehow I managed to be dyslexic and with a distinct shortage of brains
But at least I'm smart enough to use a speling cheker.

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I use spell checker extensively, being dyslexic myself.

Alibro said:

some good work there and happening much faster than mine.

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I like the drive coupler he used to bolt to the flywheel, although I'm not convinced a flywheel or clutch is actually much use, and the heavy flywheel will hamper motor acceleration a lot.