Freelander 1 Freelander EV

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andyfreelandy said:
Looks like a factory LR electric motor option!
Once all the mechanicals are done the electronics will hopefully be less of a grind!! Literally.
Great progress.
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Thanks mate, If I were doing it again from scratch I wouldn't change much. As always with me its weld, grind, weld again and grind again. My welds are not pretty but have always been strong. ;)
Of course I just spotted in one of the photos the factory bracket has what looks like a spot not welded. I think it is welded on the inside though.
 
Alibro said:
It is quite possible all this lovely bracketry will need cut back when I go to fabricate the motor mount but for now it will do.
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You're making good progress Ali.;)
I assumed you'd be using the FL1 engine mount, and run some form of fabricated linking bracket to the Leaf motor. However if the Leaf mount sits on the chassis rail, then I guess it'll still work ok.
You'll still need to fabricate an upper tie bar mount too, don't forget.

Looking forward to the big installation.
 
Nodge68 said:
You're making good progress Ali.;)
I assumed you'd be using the FL1 engine mount, and run some form of fabricated linking bracket to the Leaf motor. However if the Leaf mount sits on the chassis rail, then I guess it'll still work ok.
Progress is slow as I'm tired after work so am only doing this on the weekends.
You'll still need to fabricate an upper tie bar mount too, don't forget.

Looking forward to the big installation.
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The Leaf motor and transmission sit on the subframe. It means my mount will have to drop down and go under the motor to pick up the motor mount. I haven't figured out yet how I'm doing that but it shouldn't be too hard.
 
Alibro said:
The Leaf motor and transmission sit on the subframe. It means my mount will have to drop down and go under the motor to pick up the motor mount. I haven't figured out yet how I'm doing that but it shouldn't be too hard.
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Ah but you're not fitting it into a Leaf. Would it not be easier to simply connect the Leaf motor to the original FL1 engine mount? This would then compliment the FL1 gearbox mount, and keep the whole assembly transferable to another FL1 with minimal vehicle modification later on. ;)
Also the way the original FL1 power unit is fitted (actually no different to most cars), it's suspended at the ends (hammock style), using tie bars to control the rocking this method of mounting requires.
I suspect that using the original mounting points will make the conversion easier to approve for road use, if such an approval is needed.

Just my thoughts on the subject anyway. ;)
 
I was chewing approval the other night.
Really not sure what required approval these days. Used to drop all sorts of engines into old rusty cars and as long as the insurer was happy, off we went!!!!

Maybe NI is different again but worth some thinking as it moves towards a reality!!
 
Nodge68 said:
Ah but you're not fitting it into a Leaf. Would it not be easier to simply connect the Leaf motor to the original FL1 engine mount? This would then compliment the FL1 gearbox mount, and keep the whole assembly transferable to another FL1 with minimal vehicle modification later on. ;)
Also the way the original FL1 power unit is fitted (actually no different to most cars), it's suspended at the ends (hammock style), using tie bars to control the rocking this method of mounting requires.
I suspect that using the original mounting points will make the conversion easier to approve for road use, if such an approval is needed.

Just my thoughts on the subject anyway. ;)
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That is exactly how I plan to do it. I was thinking of an L shaped bracket dropping down from the Freelander engine mount going under the motor to pick up the Leaf motor mount. The original design idea was that everything can be unbolted and moved to another car with minimal fuss so reus
andyfreelandy said:
I was chewing approval the other night.
Really not sure what required approval these days. Used to drop all sorts of engines into old rusty cars and as long as the insurer was happy, off we went!!!!

Maybe NI is different again but worth some thinking as it moves towards a reality!!
Click to expand...
To be honest I don't know 100% what is required for approval here but I figure the more I keep the OEM mounts etc then the better chance of it being approved.
NI will be different to anywhere else in the UK because. No sensible reason, just because.
I suspect there will be very few people have built an EV here before so approval may be a bit of a lottery.
 
Alibro said:
That is exactly how I plan to do it. I was thinking of an L shaped bracket dropping down from the Freelander engine mount going under the motor to pick up the Leaf motor mount.
Click to expand...
Ah, that sounds perfect Ali.;)
Alibro said:
The original design idea was that everything can be unbolted and moved to another car with minimal fuss so reus
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Which makes the most sense.
Alibro said:
To be honest I don't know 100% what is required for approval here but I figure the more I keep the OEM mounts etc then the better chance of it being approved.
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I suspect it's a formality, but keeping the motor assembly using the original mounting points must be a way of reducing paperwork and hassle.
If there's lots of body modifications, then type approval becomes an issue, which you'd like to avoid if possible.
 
Nodge68 said:
Ah, that sounds perfect Ali.;)

Which makes the most sense.

I suspect it's a formality, but keeping the motor assembly using the original mounting points must be a way of reducing paperwork and hassle.
If there's lots of body modifications, then type approval becomes an issue, which you'd like to avoid if possible.
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To be honest I'm more concerned about cutting the boot floor to fit the battery. I believe I can install the motor and ancillaries with minimum mods to the car so the authorities should be OK with that.
In theory cutting any part of the body is a modification but if I avoid cutting anything structural I should be OK. In the end it will be down to the discretion of the tester but If I've obviously made every effort to avoid major mods and ensure the car is as strong as before or stronger it should help.
 
I just remembered I'm taking my van in for MOT next Saturday so I'll ask the guys when I'm there who I should speak to. Probably best get advice from the tester before doing anything he might disapprove of.
 
Alibro said:
To be honest I'm more concerned about cutting the boot floor to fit the battery. I believe I can install the motor and ancillaries with minimum mods to the car so the authorities should be OK with that.
In theory cutting any part of the body is a modification but if I avoid cutting anything structural I should be OK. In the end it will be down to the discretion of the tester but If I've obviously made every effort to avoid major mods and ensure the car is as strong as before or stronger it should help.
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Ok, what about going the other way, rather than remove structural material from the feeelanders body, add to it. Start by first removing the gold fish bowl from the rear of the boot floor, then and smooth it over by welding in a plate. Then weld in some "hardpoints" into the boot floor, using something like the mounting / reinforcing plates used for roll cages and harness points on rally cars such as these:
wil_fittings-stress-plate.jpg

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/race-s...JyO2JBoiSB5u1Qojm-AaAs9dEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Then make a "battery cradle" into which you mount your batteries, and bolt your battery cradles to the floor using the new "hardpoints". If you need the battery's enclosure to be watertight, make the cradles into a box, and you can get neoprene foam strips, use them to make a gasket against the underside of the floor pan.
 
Jayridium said:
Ok, what about going the other way, rather than remove structural material from the feeelanders body, add to it. Start by first removing the gold fish bowl from the rear of the boot floor, then and smooth it over by welding in a plate. Then weld in some "hardpoints" into the boot floor, using something like the mounting / reinforcing plates used for roll cages and harness points on rally cars such as these:
wil_fittings-stress-plate.jpg

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/race-s...JyO2JBoiSB5u1Qojm-AaAs9dEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Then make a "battery cradle" into which you mount your batteries, and bolt your battery cradles to the floor using the new "hardpoints". If you need the battery's enclosure to be watertight, make the cradles into a box, and you can get neoprene foam strips, use them to make a gasket against the underside of the floor pan.
Click to expand...
Until I get the batteries I won't know if I need to make the fish tank larger or do away with it. Either way it's a change so in theory can cause problems.
As far as I know it is down to the discretion of the tester so the fewer changes I make to the body the better. Having said that, currently my preference is to enlarge the fish tank to the size of the boot floor and stick most of the batteries into it (preferable after sealing it properly of course) This way the batteries will be protected against the elements and easy to get to. In time this might change but it's the way I'm planning at the minute.
 
Alibro said:
To be honest I'm more concerned about cutting the boot floor to fit the battery. I believe I can install the motor and ancillaries with minimum mods to the car so the authorities should be OK with that.
In theory cutting any part of the body is a modification but if I avoid cutting anything structural I should be OK.
Click to expand...

I suspect that if you remove the cubby box by drilling the spot welds out, and replace it with a neat flat panel, which is sealed in with car body panel sealer, then I doubt anyone would ever notice.
I'm pretty sure there will be sufficient space for the battery pack, if it's split between the fuel tank location, and under the newly flattered boot floor.
A couple of boxes for the batteries will be needed, supported on existing body bolts will help with the OE look, and make the whole system transferable, as long as minimal body modifications.

It's obviously possible to get these vehicles on the road, as it's being done by companies, although they may be using some form of special dispensation.
 
Nodge68 said:
I suspect that if you remove the cubby box by drilling the spot welds out, and replace it with a neat flat panel, which is sealed in with car body panel sealer, then I doubt anyone would ever notice.
I'm pretty sure there will be sufficient space for the battery pack, if it's split between the fuel tank location, and under the newly flattered boot floor.
A couple of boxes for the batteries will be needed, supported on existing body bolts will help with the OE look, and make the whole system transferable, as long as minimal body modifications.

It's obviously possible to get these vehicles on the road, as it's being done by companies, although they may be using some form of special dispensation.
Click to expand...
Ideally I'd like to be able to work at the batteries from above. That's why I was thinking of cutting out a large hole in the boot and dropping in a purpose made box to hold the batteries. There is no way it would be big enough for all the batteries so more will need to go under the bonnet.
I'm not overly worried about making it legal, like you say companies are doing it all the time.
In the mean time I'm having enough fun to make it worthwhile anyway. ;)
 
I've done enough research (hopefully) to know what is OK in the UK.
Unfortunately even though Northern Ireland is part of the UK, road regulations are often very different so I wouldn't want to assume anything.
I'll speak with the local regulators before cutting anything to be sure.
 
Alibro said:
Ideally I'd like to be able to work at the batteries from above. That's why I was thinking of cutting out a large hole in the boot and dropping in a purpose made box to hold the batteries.
Click to expand...

The dimensions of each cell is 303 X 225 X 55mm, of which there are 48 for a 24kWh battery pack.
I figured the space between the rear chassis rails will take a box 1050 W x
x 500 D x 300mm H, which is measured between the boot floor, and to the lower edge of the exhaust box. This enough space to put 2 columns of 18 cells on their sides, across the width of the boot. This means 36 cells could fit in the space below floor level, within the space available. The remaining 12 cells would fit each side of the propshaft, as 2 stacks of 6 cells.
This means the space under the bonnet would be used for the electronics, and maybe a small front boot too.
This layout is the way I'd do it, simply to maximise the internal space, while keeping the centre of gravity low, which will help the handling.
 
Nodge68 said:
The dimensions of each cell is 303 X 225 X 55mm, of which there are 48 for a 24kWh battery pack.
I figured the space between the rear chassis rails will take a box 1050 W x
x 500 D x 300mm H, which is measured between the boot floor, and to the lower edge of the exhaust box. This enough space to put 2 columns of 18 cells on their sides, across the width of the boot. This means 36 cells could fit in the space below floor level, within the space available. The remaining 12 cells would fit each side of the propshaft, as 2 stacks of 6 cells.
This means the space under the bonnet would be used for the electronics, and maybe a small front boot too.
This layout is the way I'd do it, simply to maximise the internal space, while keeping the centre of gravity low, which will help the handling.
Click to expand...
That is excellent Nodge but of course it relies on me buying a Leaf battery pack which may or may not happen. I'm still keeping an open mind on the pack I purchase as other options are available. I may even end up buying two or three packs from a PHEV car to make the pack up so until I know what the pack will be I cannot make any decisions.
 
Alibro said:
That is excellent Nodge but of course it relies on me buying a Leaf battery pack which may or may not happen. I'm still keeping an open mind on the pack I purchase as other options are available. I may even end up buying two or three packs from a PHEV car to make the pack up so until I know what the pack will be I cannot make any decisions.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you are tied to using Leaf batteries Ali, although for easy of use and charging, this would be preferable, as they're compatible with the Leaf electronics.

What I'm saying is, going by some quick measurements, and back of the envelope calculations, there's sufficient space to put over well over 24kWh of cells under the floor, but still within the confines of the removed ICE components.

This has many advantages, but the 2 main advantages are maintained interior space, and keeping the centre of gravity low. Additionally having the battery pack below the floor, will improve occupant safety, should a battery decide to go up in flames, although this is unlikely.

From my calculations, the Freelander 1 has around 220 litres of space below the floors, consisting of around 160 where the cubby box and exhaust once fitted, full width between the chassis rails, and 30 litres each side of the propshaft, in the original fuel tank location.

What batteries you choose to use in these locations is up to you, and your budget, but as a good NMC lithium cell can hold up to 700Wh of energy per litre of space, its possible to get around 150kWh of top notch lithium cells in the space available, although in reality, using second hand cells of older chemistries, you would probably on be able to install about ¼ to a ⅓ of what is theoretically possible in the available space, once the BMS and interconnections are in there too.
 
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