Freelander 1 Freelander EV

Alibro · Dec 11, 2020

Nodge68 said:
Unfortunately a Lovejoy coupling won't have the correct splines for the motor, but if they did, it would be my preference.

Better than a Lovejoy Ali? I'm not sure about that, I'm only a hobby machinist.

LOL, I've every faith in your machining Nodge.

My welding on the other hand...............

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2020

Alibro said:
LOL, I've every faith in your machining Nodge.

My welding on the other hand...............

Thanks for the confidence Ali.

Sounds like, between us two old duffers, we could make a right pig's ear out of it.

Alibro · Dec 11, 2020

Nodge68 said:
Thanks for the confidence Ali.

Sounds like, between us two old duffers, we could make a right pig's ear out of it.

LOL, you never know mate, we might get lucky.

The nice thing about all this is even if we do cock it up, replacing the coupling will be relatively cheap and simple.

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2020

Alibro said:
LOL, you never know mate, we might get lucky.

The nice thing about all this is even if we do cock it up, replacing the coupling will be relatively cheap and simple.

Indeed we can. Although let's see if we can get it right first time.

Jayridium · Dec 12, 2020

I prefer grid couplings, colloquially known as "Detroit" couplings in the offshore oil and gas industry, reason I prefer them is a grid coupling has that element of spring to it, offering an element of damping akin to a dual mass flywheel or an overrunning alternator pulley.

Whereas a lovejoy coupling - generically known as a spider coupling - is open to a whole swathe of failure modes some of which aren't immediately apparent until disassembly. http://www.couplinganswers.com/2014/10/coupling-failure-analysis-jaw-couplings.html

Alibro · Dec 12, 2020

Jayridium said:
I prefer grid couplings, colloquially known as "Detroit" couplings in the offshore oil and gas industry, reason I prefer them is a grid coupling has that element of spring to it, offering an element of damping akin to a dual mass flywheel or an overrunning alternator pulley.

Whereas a lovejoy coupling - generically known as a spider coupling - is open to a whole swathe of failure modes some of which aren't immediately apparent until disassembly. http://www.couplinganswers.com/2014/10/coupling-failure-analysis-jaw-couplings.html

I've read many posts and blogs by different folks where Love Joy couplings were used in EV conversions and failed so I felt it was probably better to go with a simple solid coupler. I have to admit I'd never heard of a Grid coupler but I've made the decision to go with a solid one so will stick with it.

Jayridium · Dec 12, 2020

As long as you get your centres right, the solid coupler should be fine.

Nodge68 · Dec 15, 2020

I actually managed to get an hour or so on the drive coupling tonight.
Having made the mandrel a nice friction fit. I've used CA glue to secure the gearbox splined hub in alignment, so I can machine the outer diameter down to fit the internal diameter of the tube. Using a mandrel is the best way I could think of to keep everything concentric, which will minimise vibration when it's all together. I'm hoping to get the splines running within 2 or 3 thou, which should be acceptable for this.
The hub material is pretty soft and rather gummy to machine. The original disc flange where the springs once sat is horrible to machine, being very hard. It actually blunts high speed steel tooling almost instantly, and actually sparks quite alarmingly with a carbide insert tool.

It does cut down with plenty of cutting oil, but it's a slow process, as I'm only able to take a few thou per pass.
I'm curious as to the grade of this material, but I suspect it's some form of spring steel, which would explain its reluctance to cut.

At least I've made progress on this project tonight, and actually made a nice change from the frustration that my FL2 is causing currently.

Alibro · Dec 15, 2020

Nodge68 said:
I actually managed to get an hour or so on the drive coupling tonight.
Having made the mandrel a nice friction fit. I've used CA glue to secure the gearbox splined hub in alignment, so I can machine the outer diameter down to fit the internal diameter of the tube. Using a mandrel is the best way I could think of to keep everything concentric, which will minimise vibration when it's all together. I'm hoping to get the splines running within 2 or 3 thou, which should be acceptable for this.
The hub material is pretty soft and rather gummy to machine. The original disc flange where the springs once sat is horrible to machine, being very hard. It actually blunts high speed steel tooling almost instantly, and actually sparks quite alarmingly with a carbide insert tool.

It does cut down with plenty of cutting oil, but it's a slow process, as I'm only able to take a few thou per pass.
I'm curious as to the grade of this material, but I suspect it's some form of spring steel, which would explain its reluctance to cut.

At least I've made progress on this project tonight, and actually made a nice change from the frustration that my FL2 is causing currently.

That's great news John, sometimes you need to step away from something if it is really annoying, just to get a break.
I don't know if it would be sensible but could you hold a grinder with a flap wheel to the disc flange while it's spinning in the lathe? Just until until it's fairly close? That's how I made the centre finder screw thingy and it worked a treat.

BTW I also finished drilling and tapping the Gearbox side of the adapter plate

Then I made a template of the motor face and mounting points and laid it on the adapter plate to see how the holes will line up.

However I may need to do some trimming to make the motor fit alongside the IRD.
As you can see from this angle it will be close as the motor has various bits sticking out along it's length.

I should be able to turn the motor a little to make it fit but I want to keep it the correct orientation if I can, just in case having it on it's side or upside down effects the cooling somehow. I can't think of any reason why it should but want to err on the side of caution.

Jayridium · Dec 16, 2020

I see you've mastered CAD (Cardboard Aided Design)

Nodge68 · Dec 16, 2020

Alibro said:
That's great news John, sometimes you need to step away from something if it is really annoying, just to get a break.

That's the plan Ali. I've a few days off of cars, as after Christmas I've got a gearbox to change on the daughter's Fiat 500, along with another clutch, as it's got oil contaminated.

I'll look at the Freelander diff issue at the same time.

Alibro said:
I don't know if it would be sensible but could you hold a grinder with a flap wheel to the disc flange while it's spinning in the lathe?

That's the way I'll do it Ali. I just don't like grinding near the lathe, as the grinding disc grit is harder than the lathe ways, so I'll need to cover them thoroughly.

I could actually leave the outer flange as a ground finish, as it's going to be welded anyway, so quality of finish isn't a problem.

Alibro said:
BTW I also finished drilling and tapping the Gearbox side of the adapter plate

The adapter plate is looking pretty good Ali.

I can see a point where you're going to be ahead of me.

Alibro · Dec 16, 2020

Nodge68 said:
That's the plan Ali. I've a few days off of cars, as after Christmas I've got a gearbox to change on the daughter's Fiat 500, along with another clutch, as it's got oil contaminated.
I'll look at the Freelander diff issue at the same time.

That's the way I'll do it Ali. I just don't like grinding near the lathe, as the grinding disc grit is harder than the lathe ways, so I'll need to cover them thoroughly.

I could actually leave the outer flange as a ground finish, as it's going to be welded anyway, so quality of finish isn't a problem.

The adapter plate is looking pretty good Ali.

I can see a point where you're going to be ahead of me.

After I've had a go at it with the welder the finish will be ground anyway.
"The grinder and painter I am makes me the welder I aint"

I have so many other things I need to do in this conversion you would need to take 6 months or more to hold me back.

At the minute I'm really busy with work but will get a few days over Crimbo to play with it.
The power steering pump and brake vac pump need installing and connecting, I think I'll need to take the new power steering pump along with the high pressure pipe to a specialist to have the pipe adapted or remade.
here is a photo showing how different the connectors for the power steering pump are.
The connection on the left used to be on the Freelander belt driven pump and goes down to the steering rack, the one on the right is the remains of the Zafira/Astra hydraulic hose - it's only a couple of inches long.

Nodge68 · Dec 16, 2020

Alibro said:
The connection on the left used to be on the Freelander belt driven pump and goes down to the steering rack, the one on the right is the remains of the Zafira/Astra hydraulic hose - it's only a couple of inches long.

How does the pipe enter the electric pump Ali?

Alibro · Dec 16, 2020

Nodge68 said:
How does the pipe enter the electric pump Ali?

It just screws in at the bottom using the bolt you can see John.

Nodge68 · Dec 16, 2020

Alibro said:
It just screws in at the bottom using the bolt you can see John.

So will the banjo bolt from the Freelander not screw straight to pump?

Alibro · Dec 16, 2020

Nodge68 said:
So will the banjo bolt from the Freelander not screw straight to pump?

Good question mate. I didn't even try it because the connection was so different from the original but I'll take a look again tomorrow to confirm.
So if the bolt threads are the same and there is space for the bigger banjo bolt you think the different shape and lack of the seal on the other bolt will not be a problem?

Nodge68 · Dec 17, 2020

Alibro said:
Good question mate. I didn't even try it because the connection was so different from the original but I'll take a look again tomorrow to confirm.
So if the bolt threads are the same and there is space for the bigger banjo bolt you think the different shape and lack of the seal on the other bolt will not be a problem?

A high pressure banjo fitting needs to be a good fit, with space for the washers to seal.

It's not uncommon for banjo fittings to be used on pumps though, as they're easily removed without having to twist the piping or spin the pump.

You could well find the pump end will accept or already has a banjo fitting.

Alibro · Dec 17, 2020

I had a look at the pump tonight and it might just work. The banjo bolt is the same size and thread but the face of the casting isn't very flat. I might be able to fix that but it will not be easy.

This is the power steering pump as I received it.

And this is the face of the hole where the high pressure hose bolts in.

As you can see the casting hasn't been faced so I would need to figure out a way to do that.

Jayridium · Dec 17, 2020

Alibro said:
I had a look at the pump tonight and it might just work. The banjo bolt is the same size and thread but the face of the casting isn't very flat. I might be able to fix that but it will not be easy.

This is the power steering pump as I received it.
View attachment 225433
And this is the face of the hole where the high pressure hose bolts in.
View attachment 225434
View attachment 225435

As you can see the casting hasn't been faced so I would need to figure out a way to do that.

"I got something!"

Get an angled die grinder, and a set of "roloc" stuff, particularly the sanding discs...

The "roloc" system is a 3m design of rapidly changeable attachments for die grinders and rotary tools, it comprises of a mandrel:

and special pads which feature fast plastic screws which screw into the threaded hole in the mandrel, its something like 120° rotation to fit / remove a pad:

You can get lots of different types of these fast fitting pads for roloc, such as sanding, flap discs, scotchbrite, bristled brushes, felt polishing pads etc... Get the blue zirconium rather than brown aluminium dioxide flat sanding disks, and get a mixed goody bag of them they are inexpensive on ebay and an absolute godsend. Typically the machine is used like this:

But that casting appears to be made of aluminium so would most likely clog the sanding pads, so you'll have to approach it slightly differently, set up the diegrinder with a blue or green flat (NOT flapped) sanding disc of 80 / 120 grit, then spray lots of soapy water on the area and "tickle" the casting marks off it repeatedly spraying both the workpiece and the sanding pad between "tickles" / passes to wash away the aluminium filings. Sand it back a smidge more than you think you will need to so you give yourself more room for the washers and a proper bite of the thread on the banjo bolt onto the port on the pump.

Here's an angled die grinder, plus a roloc mandrel and 4x discs, one of each of four types, for £25.99
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/90-AIR-D...476865?hash=item3670c955c1:g:uRcAAOSwGbFf1w7m

And this is a good roloc starter kit with ~80pcs of different types for ~£20 to get you started:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/81Pcs-2-...413542?hash=item59544cdfe6:g:lqoAAOSwmTxfK71R

And this is it in action:

Nodge68 · Dec 18, 2020

Alibro said:
As you can see the casting hasn't been faced so I would need to figure out a way to do that.

A fine file wrapped in 400 wet n dry used with oil will give you a better sealing surface Ali. You need to make sure you keep the surface at a 90° angle to the thread, but it shouldn't be too difficult to do make that face suitable for a hydraulic seal.
I'd use an annealed copper washer, which should do what you need.

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