Freelander 2 (LR2) Freelander 2 diesel starting on 3 cylinders, now running properly, after cylinder head change.

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That's a PITA !!
Heat would perhaps improve valve sealing? Can't remember if you have done a compression test?
You have followed a logical path - the F2 doesn't repay with kindness does it !?!
 
andyfreelandy said:
That's a PITA !!
Heat would perhaps improve valve sealing? Can't remember if you have done a compression test?
You have followed a logical path - the F2 doesn't repay with kindness does it !?!
Click to expand...

The transition of running on 3 cylinders when cold, to running on 4 cylinders is like switching the 4th injector on, then off, then on again, and it remains running on 4 at idle, and when revved off load. The transition is instant, so it must be electrical.
I can cruise comfortably at 60 in 6th on a flat road, and there's no misfire. As soon as a hill is encountered, then the misfiring starts.

I don't believe this is a mechanical issue, as it wouldn't transition from 3 to 4 cylinder running so abruptly.

I believe it's an injector, but have no way to test which one it is, other than substation, with a spare, but I've no idea if my spare injectors are any good either. :(

Compression wise, I can't measure it directly, as the glow plugs use an odd 8mm thread. I can listen to the cranking speed, and all cylinders seem to slow the starter reasonably equally. I have also monitored battery voltage whilst cranking, in which all cylinders draw pretty much the same current, so by that assumption, the compression is pretty even on all cylinders.

I'm going to investigate the injectors in more detail next.
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm going to investigate the injectors in more detail next.
Click to expand...

Fishing in the dark a bit, but if the problem stays on the same injector even after swapping them (which led you to the ECU driver) then how about a problem with the injector seating which is leaking until warmed up? Washer, bad seat, crack etc etc ?!?!?!
 
dash mounted scope.. 4channel - its all sounding a small bit like my own - wouldn't say it goes off a pot but you can get it to stumble under load when you try... and mine has had the fuel system changed!!!
 
andyfreelandy said:
Fishing in the dark a bit, but if the problem stays on the same injector even after swapping them (which led you to the ECU driver) then how about a problem with the injector seating which is leaking until warmed up? Washer, bad seat, crack etc etc ?!?!?!
Click to expand...
I'm going to swap injectors about in the next installment, now I've eliminated the PTM, (assuming the second hand replacement is working correctl).
Alibro said:
Dodgy harness?
Click to expand...
I've tested the harness, additionally I'm guessing the PTM would flag an broken harness as it does an unplugged injector.

SWalker said:
dash mounted scope.. 4channel - its all sounding a small bit like my own - wouldn't say it goes off a pot but you can get it to stumble under load when you try... and mine has had the fuel system changed!!!
Click to expand...
I'm hoping to avoid such solutions.

I've a few tests to carry out yet.
 
Here's a thought. Maybe I've 2 faulty injectors. 1 is faulty when cold, but improves when warm, the other working all the time, except under load?

I've ordered a tested and working second hand injector, which I can use test mine in turn.
 
Nodge68 said:
Here's a thought. Maybe I've 2 faulty injectors. 1 is faulty when cold, but improves when warm, the other working all the time, except under load?

I've ordered a tested and working second hand injector, which I can use test mine in turn.
Click to expand...
I've heard it said you should always replace injectors as a set.
I guess this would be one reason why. :confused:
 
Alibro said:
I've heard it said you should always replace injectors as a set.
I guess this would be one reason why. :confused:
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be necessary to replace a whole set of injectors Ali, as the injector's characteristics are loaded into the PTM using the diagnostic software. The cost would be prohibitive too, especially at LR prices. :eek:​
I do however have reservations that the injectors in this engine are working correctly. 1 is definitely new, but the other 3 are quite obvious reconditioned, so maybe one or more of those is misbehaving.

When this working one arrives, I'll fit it and take it for a drive and see how it goes. I'm so close to getting this issue solved, but also so far off too.
 
cheap osciliscope on each pair of injector wires in turn to see which is dropping out?
 
Nodge68 said:
It shouldn't be necessary to replace a whole set of injectors Ali, as the injector's characteristics are loaded into the PTM using the diagnostic software. The cost would be prohibitive too, especially at LR prices. :eek:​
I do however have reservations that the injectors in this engine are working correctly. 1 is definitely new, but the other 3 are quite obvious reconditioned, so maybe one or more of those is misbehaving.

When this working one arrives, I'll fit it and take it for a drive and see how it goes. I'm so close to getting this issue solved, but also so far off too.
Click to expand...
If they were professionally reconditioned they should be OK.
But it's a big IF!
I think I was quoted over £100 per injector a few years ago so I understand your reluctance to replace them all. Now you have the software at least you can reprogram them each time you move the new one.
 
Alibro said:
But it's a big IF!
Click to expand...
That's the issue, going by the quality of the other work this poor engine has seen, it makes me wonder if they were done on the cheap. I actually don't know what can be reconditioned in these injectors, as I didn't think this design had any moving parts. :confused: I'm tempted to pull a damaged second hand one I've got apart, just to see what goes on inside. :eek:
Alibro said:
I think I was quoted over £100 per injector a few years ago so I understand your reluctance to replace them all. Now you have the software at least you can reprogram them each time you move the new one.
Click to expand...

The FL2 injector seems very expensive to recondition, with prices around £130 each, exchange. :eek:

New they're up at around the £300 mark each. :eek::eek:
 
Nodge68 said:
That's the issue, going by the quality of the other work this poor engine has seen, it makes me wonder if they were done on the cheap. I actually don't know what can be reconditioned in these injectors, as I didn't think this design had any moving parts. :confused: I'm tempted to pull a damaged second hand one I've got apart, just to see what goes on inside. :eek:


The FL2 injector seems very expensive to recondition, with prices around £130 each, exchange. :eek:

New they're up at around the £300 mark each. :eek::eek:
Click to expand...

From what I could gather when researching getting ny D3 ones refurbed, it is bit of a grey area so in the end I bought 6 new ones!
Got to say less smoke, but the main things I now notice are better starting and a stable idle regardless of temperature, before it would take a mile or two before the thing would idle smoothly.
 
Which reminds me, does the fl2 have an oil temp sensor?
I ask as on the D3 when this plays up it can cause idle issues.
If so could be a cheap fix!

Just googleg LR001368, not cheap.
 
lynall said:
From what I could gather when researching getting ny D3 ones refurbed, it is bit of a grey area so in the end I bought 6 new ones!
Click to expand...
I'm not if the D3 injector is the same design as the FL2 injector. The FL2 injector seems to use the spilled fuel as the activation linkage for the main injection cycle. Does the D3 use a similar design injector?
lynall said:
Which reminds me, does the fl2 have an oil temp sensor?
Click to expand...
I believe it does have an oil temperature sensor. I'm sure it's on the front of the block.
Reading the codes with SDD didn't show any issues with out of range sensors though.
lynall said:
I ask as on the D3 when this plays up it can cause idle issues.
Click to expand...
That's right it can, although my issue is a regular misfire, like 1 cylinder isn't running at all, then all of a sudden, it comes in. It's odd indeed.
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm not if the D3 injector is the same design as the FL2 injector. The FL2 injector seems to use the spilled fuel as the activation linkage for the main injection cycle. Does the D3 use a similar design injector?

I believe it does have an oil temperature sensor. I'm sure it's on the front of the block.
Reading the codes with SDD didn't show any issues with out of range sensors though.

That's right it can, although my issue is a regular misfire, like 1 cylinder isn't running at all, then all of a sudden, it comes in. It's odd indeed.
Click to expand...


From memory the D3 oil temp sensor does not show a code if it fails?
D3 one screws into the side of the sump itself.
 
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