Freelander 2 (LR2) Freelander 2 diesel starting on 3 cylinders, now running properly, after cylinder head change.

J_D · Oct 6, 2020

Very true about the high voltage spikes.
I have the hantek scope but never used it yet. I shall get the same clamp that you mentioned. I need to try it on my working engine, but I don't want to cause a fault!

Alibro · Oct 6, 2020

J_D said:
It seems oscilloscope use is becoming more and more necessary.
Post your findings and usage if you could.

I think a lot of Chinese sellers have stock in the UK.

Edited for PC-ness.

Most of the feedback they got says fast delivery so you're probably right.

Denboy · Oct 6, 2020

It says from Leicestershire GB on the posting delivery by 10th October don't think that's coming straight from China

paul99 · Oct 6, 2020

A lot of Chinese sellers are keeping UK/EU stock for faster delivery at a little extra on the price. They still list their Chinese business address, so that listing is fairly typical. Nodge, if you do try heating the ECU, don't forget a freezer spray on it to see if the fault returns.

Nodge68 · Oct 6, 2020

paul99 said:
A lot of Chinese sellers are keeping UK/EU stock for faster delivery at a little extra on the price. They still list their Chinese business address, so that listing is fairly typical. Nodge, if you do try heating the ECU, don't forget a freezer spray on it to see if the fault returns.

I'll be heating it at the weekend, if it's dry.
If heating the ECU works, then I'll be pulling it apart to check for dry solder joints.

Nodge68 · Oct 10, 2020

This morning I spent some time going through the whole injector wiring, from the plugs on the EDC to the injectors. There's no issues with the wiring.

So I tried heating the EDC without any success.
So then decided to simply remove it and found that it's obviously been apart before, as the top cover had been in-expertly levered off, and very crudely sealed again.

So I'm thinking that it's probably time to sort a replacement EDC, although I've no idea how to program it to the vehicle, or retain it's injector codes.

More investigation is needed on this issue.

Andy Warren · Oct 10, 2020

Nodge68 said:
This morning I spent some time going through the whole injector wiring, from the plugs on the EDC to the injectors. There's no issues with the wiring.

So I tried heating the EDC without any success.
So then decided to simply remove it and found that it's obviously been apart before, as the top cover had been in-expertly levered off, and very crudely sealed again.

So I'm thinking that it's probably time to sort a replacement EDC, although I've no idea how to program it to the vehicle, or retain it's injector codes.

More investigation is needed on this issue.

That's a bugger, did you manage to un-seal it a have a look inside for dry joints ? Lets hope if you replace it, it doesn't need 'expert' main stealer attention.

lynall · Oct 10, 2020

Nodge68 said:
This morning I spent some time going through the whole injector wiring, from the plugs on the EDC to the injectors. There's no issues with the wiring.

So I tried heating the EDC without any success.
So then decided to simply remove it and found that it's obviously been apart before, as the top cover had been in-expertly levered off, and very crudely sealed again.

So I'm thinking that it's probably time to sort a replacement EDC, although I've no idea how to program it to the vehicle, or retain it's injector codes.

More investigation is needed on this issue.

Have a look at diagnosedan on youtube, he has some good vids, tends to waffle on a bit, but a clever chap goes right into detail and might give you some ideas.

Maybe as you have found the ecu opened, the previous tech did the same tests/diag as you, and the fault is truly somehting weird, like a twisted crank/cam lobe moved on the cam, that sort of real odd ball thing you just dont see?
Any sensor wires running close to each other? something that could produce a spurious signal.

Second hand engine loom?

Nodge68 · Oct 10, 2020

Andy Warren said:
That's a bugger, did you manage to un-seal it a have a look inside for dry joints ? Lets hope if you replace it, it doesn't need 'expert' main stealer attention.

I can't get the circuit board out the casing, as it's well and truly bonded in. It looks like the driver components are bonded to the case, so I simply can't remove the board. I've traced the tracks, but the components they join to are on the side I can't get to.
Unfortunately the information on the ECU needs to be copied to the replacement ECU, which is something beyond my ability. So more professional help will be needed, although apparently a second hand ECU can be used.

lynall said:
Maybe as you have found the ecu opened, the previous tech did the same tests/diag as you, and the fault is truly somehting weird, like a twisted crank/cam lobe moved on the cam, that sort of real odd ball thing you just dont see?

I've looked deeply into the mechanical components and the wiring, everything is pointing to a failed ECU.

lynall · Oct 10, 2020

Nodge68 said:
I can't get the circuit board out the casing, as it's well and truly bonded in. It looks like the driver components are bonded to the case, so I simply can't remove the board. I've traced the tracks, but the components they join to are on the side I can't get to.
Unfortunately the information on the ECU needs to be copied to the replacement ECU, which is something beyond my ability. So more professional help will be needed, although apparently a second hand ECU can be used.

I've looked deeply into the mechanical components and the wiring, everything is pointing to a failed ECU.

Maybe a visit to mystic meg

LUKBENPHI · Oct 10, 2020

Could it be possible that the current Ecu is running outdated software for which there is a patch from dealers, with updates For unrelated issues To the cold missfire , may be worth checking as a reflash from JLR with updated software potentially could cure it without even trying to, be cheaper than new ecu and a full reprogram as a starting point at least and if they weren’t able to do it for what ever reason say a fault with your ecu you’d know what your next step would be

Andy Warren · Oct 10, 2020

Nodge68 said:
I can't get the circuit board out the casing, as it's well and truly bonded in. It looks like the driver components are bonded to the case, so I simply can't remove the board. I've traced the tracks, but the components they join to are on the side I can't get to.
Unfortunately the information on the ECU needs to be copied to the replacement ECU, which is something beyond my ability. So more professional help will be needed, although apparently a second hand ECU can be used.

Yeah that's a pain when everything is bonded in especially if it's a simpleish fix. On the up side at least you can use a s/h ECU & if they aren't a common failure item there should be a few about & hopefully the prices will be on the lower side as well ! Good luck.

lynall · Oct 10, 2020

Have a read here, many many mentions of misfires, with even the dealers struggling to fix them!
Tyres/fuel/software updates/egrs etc all worked for different people.

https://www.freel2.com/forum/post232443.html

Nodge68 · Oct 13, 2020

Well I drove it to work this morning. It's still ran on 3 cylinders for the first 4 miles, and spluttering under more than 30% throttle, but unfortunately needs must. The wife's Fiat 500 1.4 Sport suffered brake hose failure

(the part I've ringed should be connected to the hose at the bottom of the picture)

, which caused her to overrun at a junction, luckily there wasn't any other traffic to hit.

I've never seen a good condition brake hose pull out of the crimp, but it did. So unfortunately the FL2 was called into emergency duty for my trip to work, as the wife needed the Mazda.

Misfire and diff whine aside, it's beautiful to drive, and once these are sorted, it'll make a good replacement for the Mazda family car.

Alibro · Oct 13, 2020

OMG Nodge!!!!!

She was very lucky to get away with that. I've never seen a hose do that either. If they are original hoses I would advise you to contact Fiat about it.
My son had a lower suspension arm fail on him in his Scuby WRX which should have been corrected during a recall. Subaru took full responsibility and repaired his car for free, even gave him 4 new tyres and paid for the wing to be repaired. His car was around 12 years old at the time.
With such a safety critical part failing like that Fiat should be stepping up.

Nodge68 · Oct 13, 2020

Alibro said:
OMG Nodge!!!!!
She was very lucky to get away with that.

It was lucky that the roads are less busy at this time of year. Thankfully she's ok, and experienced enough to be able control the car in such situations.

Alibro said:
I've never seen a hose do that either. If they are original hoses I would advise you to contact Fiat about it.

I've never seen it myself, not in 35 years, except on a vehicle that's been in a crash and has the front suspension pulled off.

They are very likely the original hoses, so at 12 years old, Fiat would say they should have been replaced at 6 years old.

I've ordered a pair, so I can do both sides. I'm thinking that I'll change the same hoses on my daughters 500 too.

Actually I might do all our vehicles hoses now, as it shows how easily they can cause a serious incident.

At least a get to drive my FL2, which I must say is one hell of a step up from the FL1.

If only it were easy to convert to EV power.

lynall · Oct 13, 2020

Holy siht batman, that a new one on me!
How old is the car?

Land Rover say D3 brake hoses every 10 years, I have just done my fronts at 14 yrs old, rears still to do.

I have changed hoses so old they have collapsed on the inside causing the brakes to jam on.

Has it had a clutch at some time? wondering if they cheat and partially drop the subframe for access thus straining the hoses?

andyfreelandy · Oct 13, 2020

Glad there were no casualties, dual circuit brakes should leave you with sommat when one goes.

Be interested to see the other bit on the end of the hose. Looking at a new one it appears to be covered in rubber, but what failed, the crimp, the joint, or the metal fracturing??

Nodge68 · Oct 13, 2020

lynall said:
Holy siht batman, that a new one on me!
How old is the car?

12 years, with 140k on it. I've never seen a hose fail like that, under normal circumstances.

andyfreelandy said:
Glad there were no casualties, dual circuit brakes should leave you with sommat when one goes.

Thankfully no casualties.
Duel circuit brakes should give some assistance, but nothing here at all. The pedal goes to the floor with no resistance at all.
Very dangerou indeed. Thankfully the HB is very powerful, as it's discs all round.

andyfreelandy said:
Be interested to see the other bit on the end of the hose. Looking at a new one it appears to be covered in rubber, but what failed, the crimp, the joint, or the metal fracturing??

I'll take some pictures, once I've changed them. I'm doing both sides for safety.

Nodge68 · Oct 13, 2020

The drive home in the FL2 was very vibration filled, at least until the ECU warmed enough for it to run on all 4, although it drops to 3 on the hills. I'm going to need to sort this sooner, rather than later, or it'll damage the DMF and engine mounts.

Freelander 2 (LR2) Freelander 2 diesel starting on 3 cylinders, now running properly, after cylinder head change.

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