Freelander 1 Freelander 1 TD4 starting woes!!

Hi all, thank you for contributions. Update:

After replacing everything bar the kitchen sink I managed to trace it as an electrical fault at the ECU, no other options made themselves apparent.
So after a lot of examination and testing continuity between cable connectors at the ECU end and at the various sensors I tracked it down to a single pin on the ECU that somehow had become shorter than the others by a mere 2mm but this was just enough to not make the necessary connection between the ECU and the crankshaft sensor. I’d tested and replaced the sensor and the old icarsoft tool didn’t register an issue with it.
Anyway, careful adjustment and the addition of the smallest amount of solder imaginable fixed the no starting issue immediately.
Now I am back to the original issue of misfire/ lack of power.
One compression teat later and I find Cylinder No. 3 is to blame (380-375-60-365 psi). So I am now faced with piston ring replacement. With compression readings so good on other cylinders I am baffled by why one may have gone catastrophically wrong.
The car did go through a period of very little use as it belonged to an elderly gent and his wife before me who had had it since 2004 or so and added a mere 40k miles to it. In recent years it scarcely covered 500 miles in a year. Under use I know can cause issues.
Anyway, I want to keep the car as it is pristine in every possible other way, but I am on such a tight budget being retired that I need to find a friendly garage or expert with the right tools and facilities who would be prepared to lend a helping hand if I do a lot of the stripping down work before the block come out.
If anyone knows of anyone in the Somerset or North Devon area who might fit that bill PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

As always you guys are just the best and this forum is just amazing.
Hugh

Might it not be the injector not sealed in the head? You have taken them out? might be worth a look?

Cadnant1962 said:

One compression teat later and I find Cylinder No. 3 is to blame (380-375-60-365 psi). So I am now faced with piston ring replacement. With compression readings so good on other cylinders I am baffled by why one may have gone catastrophically wrong.

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I'd consider a leaking valve before a piston.

Agree with above. How did you test compression? If in the injector hole then the injector being a bad fit is out, but with 60 psi I'd go for a stuck or burnt valve. I think even with no piston rings you'd get 60 psi!!

You could always try adding a small amount of engine oil into the bore to see if compression improves. If not then it isn't the rings!

Try doing a leak down test on that cylinder to find out where the air is leaking from before condemning the piston seals. You can buy a leak down tester to do it, alternatively, even if you can get compressed air into the cylinder alone, then rotate the engine so the valves are closed, you should be able to determine which valve is leaking.

Did a wet test too and the psi in the offending cylinder went up to 140 from 60psi, thus the assumption that it was rings not valves
Test done with injectors in situ and clamped down tight. Smoke has that familiar puff puff puff pattern to it
Will do leak down test

Hi

What sort of sympotms you still have ? Do have some fault codes.
If you have a very bad compression one cylinder, is like running with only 3 injectors.
I would add that there is no reason to have cylinder issue or some valve issue at low mileage.

If you have a tight budget, I don’t think that opening the engine just for watching would be that cheap.

Look on the injectors connexion, o ring ect …
You can try to pressure your engine to see from where is leaking.

How did you your compression test ?

Hi Alteredtech

Currently we have a car that starts on the button but is clearly on working off three cylinders (1,2 and 4). As well as the rough idle and running I have billowing white/blue smoke coming out of the exhaust in a noticeably rhythmic way as if it’s down to one cylinder burning something it shouldn’t.

I have one fault code coming up for “cylinder balance control” , P1613.

I am happy that it is not an injector issue as these are new/ remanufactured injectors and I have swapped them around to see if the compression problem follows the injector - it doesn’t.

I agree that a TD4 with a genuine 64k on the clock should not succumb to cylinder or valve issues normally and of the three I’ve owned I’ve never seen it before, but something is causing low compression readings in cylinder 3.

I carried out both dry and wet compression tests and the results were as follows using the glow plug ports to maintain a good seal at the injector:

Dry (psi)
380 375 60 365

Wet (psi)
440 410 140 400

As you can see the readings all improved with a drop of oil, by between 9 & 15% on cylinders 1 2 & 4 and by a whopping 133% on the suspect cylinder 3. It is this massive change that drive me to think that it’s the piston rings.

Currently the car drives to a fashion and in fact runs much better at higher revs (3000 rpm range) but still oodles of smoke. But that said I’m not running it for fear of making something bad, something catastrophic.
I would like to do a leak down test but don’t have a compressor or a test kit. The latter is cheap enough (though diesel specific seems elusive on Amazon) but a compressor that will comfortably give a constant 100psi as minimum is not so cheap and could be something I’d never use again (unless I paint the car purple or something one day )
It will have to be a local garage job.

I have after some searching found this guy Andrew on the interweb and will be getting in touch, https://www.alwmotorvehicleengineering.com/in-the-workshop
I think he is a member here too. He’s fairly close to me so I may find a way to get to him with the Hippo.

I am more than happy to take the head off in situ to check valves etc, done this before, but don’t have the facilities or appropriate space that I used to let alone an engine lift.

Thanks for your ideas

Hi, yes that's me!! I was going to message you. Bit flat out at the moment but happy to chat through how I can help. Send me a pm with location etc and a rough plan of what you want to do!!

Bit more reading up! Apparently it is not unknown for the timing chain to jump a tooth. Also, some report cam failure.

I had a crank break on a Td4 but that was self evident! I think it is worth taking the cam cover off and having a good look before condemning the pistons or rings.

andyfreelandy said:

I think it is worth taking the cam cover off and having a good look before condemning the pistons or rings.

Click to expand...

I agree, having rings fail on 1 cylinder is very unusual.
It could still be the valves, as oil can fill pits in valve seats as easily as help worn piston rings.

I suppose there is a small chance of a hot-spot, broken ring or hole in crown but never seen it. Have a look and report back!! Have got a spare Td4 engine with a broken crank so if you want to see any details I can post photo.

Thanks Andy. I found your website after a google search and thought I’d call you. Been bogged down with L322 MOT fail this week and dealing with that

Hi all.
Very quick update.
First of all after a strip down on a poorly running Freelander 1 TD4 this is what I found

And as a word of warning, on buying a set of new pistons from Bearmach one was found to be something outside TRUE. So much for precision engineering, this must have been the last one on Friday afternoon.

Imagine putting this in and refitting the head and turning the key. Talk about piston slap and bent valves. So glad I decided to check what I thought was an optical illusion.

As further update on this thread I started at the top and worked my way down basically.
Cam shafts were both A okay, timing was on the button using the Land Rover/BMW tool and both chains in good condition.
Head removed and found #3 piston crown to be completely melted and # 1,2 & 4 all had bad pitting in different degrees (a sign of excessive fuel in the chamber on the BANG stroke as a result probably of leaking injectors)
Decided to replace all four pistons. But given that the vehicle is on the road outside my house and not in a garage, I did it myself without taking the rest of the engine block out.
Re-honed the cylinders, measured for any significant growth in bore size or odd shaped bores, ordered new pistons and that’s when I found that one of them was made by Noddy.
So I am ground right to a halt again until I speak to Bearmach on Monday.

if all goes to plan and it starts and runs properly I will either post on here the details with pictures or post something on YouTube and put a link on here so that if anyone fancies going down the same road as me at any time they will have my experience and mistakes to go by.

Hi,

Since the chain is in good condition, the engine probably has run without oil ( or no oil change ), then the engine overheated and it resulted with one cylinder melted.
You will probably have bent valves, worn crankshaft bearing and so on ...

For a cheap repair, you will probably need to change the melted piston, and only the bent and leaking valves.

Hi alteredtech
I decided that seeing as I was taking the head off and had evidence of a leaking inlet valve on cylinder 3 (as in exhaust gases coming out of inlet), I should take the opportunity now to avoid problems in the future and so calculated the cost of replacing or regrinding all valves and replacing all pistons as only one of them seemed to be in ok condition. I ended up finding a remanufactured head for the same price as buying a whole set of valves and decided to go that way and same the time and effort of dismantling regrinding and rebuilding the head.
I’d already replaced the injectors as suspected them of being at fault, which I’ve been advised was the case. The pics I posted show the complete heat destruction of the piston head which has caused sharp edges and resulting cylinder damage in terms of light scratches which thankfully honed out.
So, once I get a replacement for the junk Bearmach sent me, I should be rebuilding everything and turning the key this week. If it doesn’t start at the end of it I will be found in the woods, rocking back and forth and muttering to myself

Hi all,
If you’re still reading this thread then thank you.
So much has been going with this damn hippo and I’ve probably done way too much work on it but I WILL NOT BE BEATEN BY IT.
Basically progress has gone on to replacing all pistons and rings, done with the block in situ. Repaired a deep scratch in one cylinder and then re-honed it, rebuilt upwards until the point I came to start the engine, at which point the cylinder head gasket gave way behind no. 2 cylinder which was converted into a mini sized dish washer by the looks of it on removal of head again.
I’m going to replace gasket with a three hole rather than two, after testing for any warps on the head and lumpy bits on the block.
Now my latest question to you guys is this, DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH RTV type sealants. I want to belt and braces the job this time and use some permatex or similar around the cylinder edges and around the edges of the head. Has anyone done this with a cylinder head as well using a multi layer gasket?

thanks

Hugh