Freelander 1.8 K series hgf - more data

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GrumpyGel said:
I follow the Freelander Challenge on FB and website. Not 100% on the rules and regs but I'm pretty sure the the cars have a handicap type system. So for example the bigger the engine the bigger (or smaller is it!) the handicap - but also a turbo adds to the handicap - so, for example a TD4 is handicapped for having a turbo - so the 1.8 becomes more attractive even if it takes longer to do the courses (and I'm not sure if it would or not).

It really is a family/friends sport - family teams, all girl teams etc.
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I follow it anorl. :)
It's a street legal production class so mod's are very limited. They only use petrol's because of the power. If they tune it then it moves up to the super class. MSA mods have to be done for racing safety and checking but everything else is very limited. New seasons rules over ere: http://www.marches4x4.com/freelanderchampregs2018.pdf
 
freelance said:
Go auto td 4 ideally, my 1.8 k series went everywhere I could, towing a fuel bowser or mobile welder if necessary , so if a good one comes up, go for it !
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V6 is costly to run (20mpg? you may as well get a v8 Disco!) and can turn into overheating nightmares unless you're a KV6 guru :)

The TD4s are decent enough engines. I always knock 'em 'cos they is Kraut and I've got a durdy British L Series :D
 
freelance said:
Go auto td 4 ideally, my 1.8 k series went everywhere I could, towing a fuel bowser or mobile welder if necessary , so if a good one comes up, go for it !
Click to expand...
I tried towing my sons WRX on a car trailer with my 1.8 but it really struggled. :oops: Thankfully it was only a couple of miles.
 
The 1.8 is fine for the vast majority of green lanes. Pay&play is something completely different - and here the petrol is not really the best option.

Keep the engine standard, use a decent Payen head gasket if it needs replacing, and as Nodge says, check the cylinder head for hardness (the alloy cylinder head can go "soft" and will be essentially scrap if that happens - ask me how I know ;))

+1 for "Go for it!"
 
I find this engines quite crap, like most British engineered car engines I've heard of (please guys be fair and don't be offended).
For example, the coolant running through the inlet manifold (?) then we have those camshaft ends exposed with the rubberish seals, the placing of the thermostat and so on. Only good thing I can think of is that oil rail in case a bolt snaps because you have to remove the head.
Although they are easy to work on (on a freelander) they need alot of servicing. I've spent months changing stuff and it never ran properly, ended up scrapping it. The HGF especially is a bit tricky, mls requires even liners (good luck with that!) and elastomer although Payen is not much of a difference.
Fixing all these in workshop cost more than an average freelander with k engine worth... Simple math. And that is just the engine, there's more underneath.
However, as a hobby to gain some dexterity on mechanical stuff these are perfect. Inexpensive to "fix" and require wrenching often, keeping people such as myself with free weekends busy.
 
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websun said:
I find this engines quite crap, like most British engineered car engines I've heard of (please guys be fair and don't be offended).
For example, the coolant running through the inlet manifold (?) then we have those camshaft ends exposed with the rubberish seals, the placing of the thermostat and so on. Only good thing I can think of is that oil rail in case a bolt snaps because you have to remove the head.
Although they are easy to work on (on a freelander) they need alot of servicing. I've spent months changing stuff and it never ran properly, ended up scrapping it. The HGF especially is a bit tricky, mls requires even liners (good luck with that!) and elastomer although Payen is not much of a difference.
Fixing all these in workshop cost more than an average freelander with k engine worth... Simple math. And that is just the engine, there's more underneath.
However, as a hobby to gain some dexterity on mechanical stuff these are perfect. Inexpensive to "fix" and require wrenching often, keeping people such as myself with free weekends busy.
Click to expand...
I think the biggest problem with these engines is not so much the design but the build quality. The Chinese made a few small changes, built them properly and they are not having the issues BL/Rover group/MG/Rover and LR had.
I don't know why they chose to build them so badly but it killed the company.
 
K-series is only known for one weakness: gasket failure. The rest of it is bomb proof: you can redline it all day every day and nothing goes pop. And I've done 100's of thousands of miles on these engines, and not one has blown a head gasket. But then I don't give it death from old - which is the Achilles heal of these motors.

Rover's big mistake was to not "idiot proof" these engines when the problem was first recognised - and that is a management failing.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
It is widely accepted by 4WD mechanics that Freelander K-series engines are known to drop the cylinder liners into the block. Because the liners are steel and the block is alloy, the liners being harder, work their way into the block. Because the engine block and cylinder head are composed of different materials they expand at different rates with heat generated during running of the vehicle, causing the head gasket to fail. The bad news is; If the cylinder liners drop too low, the engine needs to be replaced (there is no economically viable repair procedure) - this is fact, confirmed by Land Rover in their Technical Advices.
There is almost no warning of the impending failure, and the problem is unlikely to be identified during routine maintenance checks. The fault has nothing to do with vehicle maintenance - more to do with poor design.
It seems the problem with the design is acknowledged in Land Rover's own Technical Bulletin 0036 issued 18 June 04 and Bulletin 0026 (distributed to it's dealerships worldwide). The bulletin highlights an engine overheating problem caused by a leak from any part of the engine/cooling system. Although this bulletin is designed to assist mechanics to repair the fault, in the vast majority of cases serious engine overheating has already occurred resulting in oil contamination of the cooling system and total engine failure.
There are many checks that need to be done to establish if the engine is repairable, however the Land Rover technical bulletin states "if the cylinder liners have dropped below the block face, the engine must be replaced". This is the crux of the problem. If you owned a k-series petrol Freelander, anecdotal data widely available on the internet suggests that the statistical odds are against you getting past 80000 km without a total engine failure and replacement. Once you have spent about $A7000.00 on a new K-series engine, statistics say that it will fail again before 80000 km.
That's not just bad luck.... that's poor design.
The early Freelanders (pre 2001) were sold with a 2 year 50000 km warranty, which seems to be about the average lifespan for this engine. The head gasket/cylinder liner design fault has not been classified as a recall (probably because of the sheer volume of complaints and the huge cost of rectification). Land Rover is unlikely to honour any claims beyond the product warranty period.
If you paid for an engine replacement, would you expect the engine to have been modified to overcome the original design fault? Why have so many K-series Petrol Freelanders had multiple head gasket failures?​
From any angle the ownership of a K-series Petrol Freelander should be carefully considered.

If yu fancy some more light reading - how about this? Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Engine Design Fault
Click to expand...
I know this is an old post. It does make me wonder though. I have a 1.8 hardback with 96800 miles on the clock with three owners. Thing is it is on the original head gasket. I have only just changed the thermostat only because I wondered why one of the hoses on the rad had been cold after driving. I did notice what looked like a little oil further down in the engine although there is no signs of water in the oil, no over heating and no other issues I can see around the engine that would make me consider head gasket failure. I know the other two owners and have all receipts for any work carried out on the hippo. Only concern at the moment is the clutch needing repaired. I do however wish I'd checked out more info on the 1.8 petrol engine prior to purchasing this car. Better safe than sorry as they say. Saying all that I will expect everything to go wrong from now on
 
Lochlan said:
It does make me wonder though. I have a 1.8 hardback with 96800 miles on the clock with three owners. Thing is it is on the original head gasket.
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What year the car is makes a difference, but if the later K series is looked after properly, there's no reason for the head gasket to fail prematurely. Even if it does fail, then as long as the engine is stopped the second there's an issue, and repaired properly, then the problem is solved for another 100k miles.
Lochlan said:
I have only just changed the thermostat only because I wondered why one of the hoses on the rad had been cold after driving.
Click to expand...
That's normal. It means the thermostat and radiator are working. ;)
 
Lochlan said:
I know this is an old post. It does make me wonder though. I have a 1.8 hardback with 96800 miles on the clock with three owners. Thing is it is on the original head gasket. I have only just changed the thermostat only because I wondered why one of the hoses on the rad had been cold after driving. I did notice what looked like a little oil further down in the engine although there is no signs of water in the oil, no over heating and no other issues I can see around the engine that would make me consider head gasket failure. I know the other two owners and have all receipts for any work carried out on the hippo. Only concern at the moment is the clutch needing repaired. I do however wish I'd checked out more info on the 1.8 petrol engine prior to purchasing this car. Better safe than sorry as they say. Saying all that I will expect everything to go wrong from now on
Click to expand...
I've done over 200k miles on cars with K-series engines and have never had a head gasket failure. Inlet manifold failure, coolant hose failure, but never a head gasket. My MGF has over 115k on it from new when I bought it in 1996. Sprinted, hill climbed, track days - the engine is pretty unburstable. The problem is with the bypass circuit when cold - it can't cope with the full load of the water pump driven at engine speed. Hoses collapse, flow stops and the head over heats. If you drive with any mechanical sympathy and I tend to always leave the heater matrix on full flow, your head gasket will be just fine.

It is a misnomer to have a head gasket replacement done for the sake of doing a head gasket. If it is fine, leave it alone. It isn't a service item.

If there is a problem then investigate. Many mechanics go for head gasket without doing a full investigation and will come to the wrong conclusion - and all you will know is that you've been told: the head gasket has gone!

Sounds like you've got a good one - look after it, service it and drive it. Just be sympathetic until it has been warmed through, and then you can give it death and drive it like you stole it.

One thing to definitely look at if you haven't already if this car is new to you is the function of the VCU - a silicone fluid containing "viscous coupling unit" that acts like an automatic transmission "clutch". This can misbehave with age/mileage and place excessive strain on the intermediate drive - the FL1's equivalent of the transfer box - an expensive component to have to replace... but you've probably seen the testing VCU threads already?
 
There are a couple of places to check for leaks before the head gasket. The water pump is a common one as it should be changed every 60k miles or so along with the timing belt and I once had a cracked plastic manifold where one of the heater pipes goes into the engine.
Otherwise it's a good engine with a bad reputation only partly deserved.
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
It is widely accepted by 4WD mechanics that Freelander K-series engines are known to drop the cylinder liners into the block. Because the liners are steel and the block is alloy, the liners being harder, work their way into the block. Because the engine block and cylinder head are composed of different materials they expand at different rates with heat generated during running of the vehicle, causing the head gasket to fail. The bad news is; If the cylinder liners drop too low, the engine needs to be replaced (there is no economically viable repair procedure) - this is fact, confirmed by Land Rover in their Technical Advices.
There is almost no warning of the impending failure, and the problem is unlikely to be identified during routine maintenance checks. The fault has nothing to do with vehicle maintenance - more to do with poor design.
It seems the problem with the design is acknowledged in Land Rover's own Technical Bulletin 0036 issued 18 June 04 and Bulletin 0026 (distributed to it's dealerships worldwide). The bulletin highlights an engine overheating problem caused by a leak from any part of the engine/cooling system. Although this bulletin is designed to assist mechanics to repair the fault, in the vast majority of cases serious engine overheating has already occurred resulting in oil contamination of the cooling system and total engine failure.
There are many checks that need to be done to establish if the engine is repairable, however the Land Rover technical bulletin states "if the cylinder liners have dropped below the block face, the engine must be replaced". This is the crux of the problem. If you owned a k-series petrol Freelander, anecdotal data widely available on the internet suggests that the statistical odds are against you getting past 80000 km without a total engine failure and replacement. Once you have spent about $A7000.00 on a new K-series engine, statistics say that it will fail again before 80000 km.
That's not just bad luck.... that's poor design.
The early Freelanders (pre 2001) were sold with a 2 year 50000 km warranty, which seems to be about the average lifespan for this engine. The head gasket/cylinder liner design fault has not been classified as a recall (probably because of the sheer volume of complaints and the huge cost of rectification). Land Rover is unlikely to honour any claims beyond the product warranty period.
If you paid for an engine replacement, would you expect the engine to have been modified to overcome the original design fault? Why have so many K-series Petrol Freelanders had multiple head gasket failures?​
From any angle the ownership of a K-series Petrol Freelander should be carefully considered.

If yu fancy some more light reading - how about this? Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Engine Design Fault
Click to expand...
The Mad Hat Man said:
It is widely accepted by 4WD mechanics that Freelander K-series engines are known to drop the cylinder liners into the block. Because the liners are steel and the block is alloy, the liners being harder, work their way into the block. Because the engine block and cylinder head are composed of different materials they expand at different rates with heat generated during running of the vehicle, causing the head gasket to fail. The bad news is; If the cylinder liners drop too low, the engine needs to be replaced (there is no economically viable repair procedure) - this is fact, confirmed by Land Rover in their Technical Advices.
There is almost no warning of the impending failure, and the problem is unlikely to be identified during routine maintenance checks. The fault has nothing to do with vehicle maintenance - more to do with poor design.
It seems the problem with the design is acknowledged in Land Rover's own Technical Bulletin 0036 issued 18 June 04 and Bulletin 0026 (distributed to it's dealerships worldwide). The bulletin highlights an engine overheating problem caused by a leak from any part of the engine/cooling system. Although this bulletin is designed to assist mechanics to repair the fault, in the vast majority of cases serious engine overheating has already occurred resulting in oil contamination of the cooling system and total engine failure.
There are many checks that need to be done to establish if the engine is repairable, however the Land Rover technical bulletin states "if the cylinder liners have dropped below the block face, the engine must be replaced". This is the crux of the problem. If you owned a k-series petrol Freelander, anecdotal data widely available on the internet suggests that the statistical odds are against you getting past 80000 km without a total engine failure and replacement. Once you have spent about $A7000.00 on a new K-series engine, statistics say that it will fail again before 80000 km.
That's not just bad luck.... that's poor design.
The early Freelanders (pre 2001) were sold with a 2 year 50000 km warranty, which seems to be about the average lifespan for this engine. The head gasket/cylinder liner design fault has not been classified as a recall (probably because of the sheer volume of complaints and the huge cost of rectification). Land Rover is unlikely to honour any claims beyond the product warranty period.
If you paid for an engine replacement, would you expect the engine to have been modified to overcome the original design fault? Why have so many K-series Petrol Freelanders had multiple head gasket failures?​
From any angle the ownership of a K-series Petrol Freelander should be carefully considered.

If yu fancy some more light reading - how about this? Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Engine Design Fault
Click to expand...
I haven't read through everything on the HGF issue but do have an issue with dropped liners, which nowadays isn't the death knell for the engine as there is a shim that can be installed to return the liner height to its original position. Still quite a bit of work, but it can be undertaken with the engine in situ. https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-LCJ0...V9iTqACXxIsdjU7rMYPpUmoRfwtvPj4hoCrP8QAvD_BwE
 
The Mad Hat Man said:
It is widely accepted by 4WD mechanics that Freelander K-series engines are known to drop the cylinder liners into the block. Because the liners are steel and the block is alloy, the liners being harder, work their way into the block. Because the engine block and cylinder head are composed of different materials they expand at different rates with heat generated during running of the vehicle, causing the head gasket to fail. The bad news is; If the cylinder liners drop too low, the engine needs to be replaced (there is no economically viable repair procedure) - this is fact, confirmed by Land Rover in their Technical Advices.
There is almost no warning of the impending failure, and the problem is unlikely to be identified during routine maintenance checks. The fault has nothing to do with vehicle maintenance - more to do with poor design.
It seems the problem with the design is acknowledged in Land Rover's own Technical Bulletin 0036 issued 18 June 04 and Bulletin 0026 (distributed to it's dealerships worldwide). The bulletin highlights an engine overheating problem caused by a leak from any part of the engine/cooling system. Although this bulletin is designed to assist mechanics to repair the fault, in the vast majority of cases serious engine overheating has already occurred resulting in oil contamination of the cooling system and total engine failure.
There are many checks that need to be done to establish if the engine is repairable, however the Land Rover technical bulletin states "if the cylinder liners have dropped below the block face, the engine must be replaced". This is the crux of the problem. If you owned a k-series petrol Freelander, anecdotal data widely available on the internet suggests that the statistical odds are against you getting past 80000 km without a total engine failure and replacement. Once you have spent about $A7000.00 on a new K-series engine, statistics say that it will fail again before 80000 km.
That's not just bad luck.... that's poor design.
The early Freelanders (pre 2001) were sold with a 2 year 50000 km warranty, which seems to be about the average lifespan for this engine. The head gasket/cylinder liner design fault has not been classified as a recall (probably because of the sheer volume of complaints and the huge cost of rectification). Land Rover is unlikely to honour any claims beyond the product warranty period.
If you paid for an engine replacement, would you expect the engine to have been modified to overcome the original design fault? Why have so many K-series Petrol Freelanders had multiple head gasket failures?​
From any angle the ownership of a K-series Petrol Freelander should be carefully considered.

If yu fancy some more light reading - how about this? Land Rover Freelander Head Gasket Engine Design Fault
Click to expand...
Noted this is an old post. I am curious though. Was this mainly in the earlier Freelander 1 series or cover all 1.8 rover engines.
I ask as I have a 2005 with 98,000 on the clock and still no HGF. I had thought about just putting it in to my local specialist garage and having a Victor Raynes gasket set popped in just as a precaution.
What do you guys think.
Is the 1.8 three door worth putting the money into these days.
I seem to come across many for sale with rather low miles on the clock.
Will they ever be a sought after model??
 
Lochlan said:
Noted this is an old post. I am curious though. Was this mainly in the earlier Freelander 1 series or cover all 1.8 rover engines.
I ask as I have a 2005 with 98,000 on the clock and still no HGF. I had thought about just putting it in to my local specialist garage and having a Victor Raynes gasket set popped in just as a precaution.
What do you guys think.
Is the 1.8 three door worth putting the money into these days.
I seem to come across many for sale with rather low miles on the clock.
Will they ever be a sought after model??
Click to expand...
I was in a Rover forum for a while as I had a MGF and as you can imagine Head Gaskets were a hot topic. The general consensus was don't go looking for trouble as failure is not inevitable, only likely and unless you are 100% confident in your mechanic it's best to leave well alone. If you plan to keep the car it might be wise to have a new head gasket kit on standby.
As far as I'm aware the later cars were only slightly better.
 
Lochlan said:
I ask as I have a 2005 with 98,000 on the clock and still no HGF. I had thought about just putting it in to my local specialist garage and having a Victor Raynes gasket set popped in just as a precaution.
Click to expand...
If it ain't broken, don't attempt to fix it, and only use a Payen elastomer gasket if it needs it.;)
Lochlan said:
What do you guys think.
Is the 1.8 three door worth putting the money into these days.
I seem to come across many for sale with rather low miles on the clock.
Will they ever be a sought after model?
Click to expand...
Yes. The prices of second hand cars is still rising.
A good connection, well looked after Freelander will always find a buyer, looking to pay for quality. ;)
 
Nodge68 said:
If it ain't broken, don't attempt to fix it, and only use a Payen elastomer gasket if it needs it.;)

Yes. The prices of second hand cars is still rising.
A good connection, well looked after Freelander will always find a buyer, looking to pay for quality. ;)
Click to expand...
Many thanks for the info on the gasket. The Victor Reinz had been suggested as being the best option for the 1.8 petrol on this site. As with most items people mention what worked for them.
The engine has a leak of oil in places. No usual white/creamy mess in the oil as yet. Just a thought of have it fixed before something goes wrong.
How many options is there for gasket sets and what will actually last?
 
Liner drop is not such a big problem in my experience, but it is true that the liner may not have a 2 thou stand-proud that you will need if you plan to use a multi-layer head gasket - and if that is the case, the elastomeric Payen gasket is definitely the one to go for. :)

I personally have never had a head gasket let go on me on a K-series, despite motorsport, track days, spirited road use of may K-series powered cars. If you let them warm through before giving them the beans, then they'll take all sorts of abuse completely reliably for many 100's thousands of miles...
 
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