Found one...

redhand said:

Not at all if the unladen weight was recorded as 350kg and the payload rating was stamped at 750kg it would solve the problem.

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Not necessarily, the law states that its the MAW that is used for legislation proposes.

ie: A 7.5ton vehicle + 750kg trailer = 8250kg MAW

Theres quite a few tree surgeons that tow large chippers that weight over 750kg with 7.5 ton vehicles.

To over come the total combined MAW they apply to vosa to down rate the tow vehicle to 6.5 ton MAW which is stamped on the VIN Plate. This allows a higher trailer MAW of 1750kg.

As you have stated (link below) its the combined 3500kg total weight that the problem not the MAW of the trailer.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/667591-post23.html

Also the sankey is built under military law/spec, so is not subject to civil law/spec. This is probably why it hasn't got a plate stating its MAW, but its unladen weight + payload, reducing the plated unladen weight of the trailer wouldn't effect its listed MAW which would remain as 357.4Kgs plus 750Kgs thus increasing the payload.

Technical arguments I agree, but unless the trailer has a MAW stamped on it, the police would refer to the build spec sheet for the trailer, fitting a trailer spec plate with a down rated MAW may be the only way to go.

Just take the test, problem solved

i would take the test even the £105 isnt the problem the problem is them ripping bastids want £500 for 4 days training i asked nicely if i could just book the test as i believe i would pass without training on the grounds that i can reverse a wide track sankey into a garage any day of the week they said no you must do the lessons first no exception i have just brought my first house and money is quite tight so feck them all i hope they all go bankrupt in the credit crunch me ill stick to my sankey and mabe get it down graded i have had enough bull***t now i need a permit to take trees i cut down in me garden to the tip cos my 90 has no rear windows no wonder fly tipping has gone crazy around here and they wonder why idiots. Rant over nearly. next time they ask ill park my 90 in front of their gates in 1st low range diff lock engaged and walk away and leave it there see what they do then probably toy it and charge me for it. Bastids
Jai

jai_landrover said:

now i need a permit to take trees i cut down in me garden to the tip cos my 90 has no rear windows

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Who says you need a permit to take your property to the tip???

And why can't you book a test directly with the DVLA??

zzr1200 said:

Who says you need a permit to take your property to the tip???

And why can't you book a test directly with the DVLA??

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Most local tips get arsey about people in landies using the tips fooking ciuncil trying to make even more money.

My local council wants a permit,

I could book the test but I'm ****ed off with the whole thing ill sort it at a later date.

redhand said:

Most local tips get arsey about people in landies using the tips fooking ciuncil trying to make even more money.

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Take a utility bill, letter from the local council regarding council tax payment, or driving licence and tell them to Fook Off. Theres no law that states which vehicle you have to use to the tip.

I've taken rubbish in, in the firms van before, yes they get snotty, demand their name and report them the your local council, after all your paying them to depose of your rubbish.

Council states that landies are considered "commercial vehicles"

jai_landrover said:

My local council wants a permit,

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Is it the local council or some jobs worth at the tip trying to line his pocket...

Phone your council and tell them you've been stopped from using the tip. I'II bet it a private company that is contracted to supply a service, your paying them, if it private garden/household waste they must take it..and you don't need a licence to transport it..

It's a free permit which allows 12 trips for a Landy

The Mad Hat Man said:

Council states that landies are considered "commercial vehicles"

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I'd ask them to comfirm that in writing, then be a real pain in the arse with letters and phone calls....

The Mad Hat Man said:

It's a free permit which allows 12 trips for a Landy

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I'II bet its issued by the tip contractor?

Luton Council issue them they have 3 tickets per month I have my works van and my landy on it a normal car is ok but work vans, pick-ups and landys are not allowed to play.

Its a free permit the man that runs the tip told me he can take all 3 permits if its a large load I told him to feck off he aint having one let alone all of em.

By the time he collared me I managed to pull all the trees and greenary out onto the floor behind the van so I said I didn't have a permit and that I'll be happy to leave if he really wanted me to. but Im not loading it all back in for nobody. He said bring it next time and let me get on with it took me 40 minutes to get all the van load into the skip.

If he wouldnt let me dump it i was gonna have a nice fire in the garden.

Jai

it is, as stated above, issued by the local council, and to be honest, I cant be arsed in causing loads of waves - yu just apply online and the council send ya a pass - at least Hampshire council do..

What is a commercial vehicle?
For the purposes of trade waste controls, Hampshire County Council defines a commercial type vehicle as one with no rear windows and/or rear seats, and/or has an open back.
"Research has shown that the majority of trade waste is delivered to HWRCs in commercial type vehicles such as vans. Therefore vans and commercial vehicles have restricted access to the sites. Hampshire County Council recognises that some householders may need to use a commercial type vehicle to dispose of their bulky household waste, so householders can apply for a free permit allowing them continued access to the sites in these vehicles."

On this occasion it is just easier to get the permit and get on with it. Although I went earlier on and they never asked for the permit. Jai

It's down to individual councils. We can use anything, although when I had a works van (sign written for a different county, who weren't as easy going) they did look in the back to check it was domesticate not trade waste.

weird, we just say 'household' and they let us in, they still weigh us like anythin else but thats just for records

Is MAM the same as MTPLM?Think ive been looking at the wrong caravan weights!
These new towing rules are gash and almost worth flauting the law for the points!

A Landrover is legally classed as a dual purpose vehicle not a commercial one. Hence why the 50mph speed limit on Single lane roads doesn't apply to them.

goonarmy said:

Is MAM the same as MTPLM?Think ive been looking at the wrong caravan weights!
These new towing rules are gash and almost worth flauting the law for the points!

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MAM is Maximum Authorised Mass or GVW Gross Vehicle weight as it used to be known. So yes it is the same as MTPLM


Just found this on Practical Caravan - The online version of the UK's top-selling caravan magazine. It may help explain what all the acronyms mean.

GLOSSARY
GROSS WEIGHT
The total weight of the trailer (or towing vehicle) and load Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) or Gross Weight Mass (GWM) The total weight of the towing vehicle and its load.
GROSS TRAIN WEIGHT
The maximum allowable combined weight (combined MAM) of the towing vehicle and trailer as set by the towing vehicle manufacturer.
KERBWEIGHT
The weight of the towing vehicle (without payload), including all fluids required for operation, 90% full tank, 68kg driver and 7kg luggage.
MAXIMUM GROSS WEIGHT
The maximum figure set by the manufacturer for the gross weight. This will normally be the technically permissible maximum based on the carrying capacity of the tyres, axles, coupling, suspension and chassis but may have been adjusted downwards for commercial reasons.
MAXIMUM AUTHORISED MASS
As above
MAXIMUM TOWING LIMIT
The most weight a car may tow (specified by the manufacturer).
MTPLM
The maximum weight of the caravan, as stated by the manufacturer (pre-1998 caravans: MGW, or Maximum Gross Weight).
NOSEWEIGHT
The maximum downward force your towball can bear, or your caravan exerts.
MASS IN RUNNING ORDER (MIRO)
The weight of the caravan equipped to the manufacturer's standard specification.
UNLADEN WEIGHT
The weight of the trailer (or towing vehicle) less removable optional equipment and load.
USER PAYLOAD
The user payload comprises all extra items not included in the manufacturer's standard spec. The user payload is the MIRO subtracted from the MTPLM.
VERTICAL STATIC LOAD/NOSE LOAD
The weight imposed on the towball or eye by the trailer coupling.

* NB: For the purposes of determining the gross vehicle weight of the towing vehicle, the noseweight of the caravan is included as part of the car's payload. Consequently, the gross train weight is really the sum of the gross vehicle weight including the noseweight plus the axle weight of the caravan, not its total weight. If the noseweight is not included in the vehicle weight but in the weight of the caravan, there is a danger of overloading the car.

You have used some mnemonics that don't appear in the above listing, and this I believe is because you are using older definitions that pre-date the above.

MAW = Maximum Authorised Weight which is the equivalent of MGW and MAM above
CAP = Capacity or pay load is the equivalent of User payload

Essentially the MAW is the same as the MTPLM, and must not be exceeded.

The CAP must form part of the MTPLM.

By the same token the Axle loading must not be exceeded.

So it looks like your interpretations is incorrect. The MTPLM = MIRO + USER PAYLOAD payload.