FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

You've got the heavy lifting out the way though, so that's a positive.
Just swap over the harness, although it's not just a just job is it.
At least you're moving forward.

Nodge68 said:

You've got the heavy lifting out the way though, so that's a positive.

Click to expand...

Definitely feels like I'm making some progress now. I'd like to have it running by the end of the week but there's a lot going on so I don't know if I'll find the time.

Nodge68 said:

Just swap over the harness, although it's not just a just job is it.

Click to expand...

I don't think it'll be a 5 minute job but it should be pretty straightforward. It just those darned awkward little clips that will slow me down.

Nodge68 said:

At least you're moving forward.

Click to expand...

Yeah, two steps forward, one step back but moving in the right direction and still smiling .

Hi Paul.
Nice to read you are making progress, did it come with the flapless manifold, did you also do the oil filter before you fitted the engine as suggested by John, hopefully you may have it sorted by the weekend if the weather allows you, good luck.

Arctic2 said:

Hi Paul.
Nice to read you are making progress, did it come with the flapless manifold, did you also do the oil filter before you fitted the engine as suggested by John, hopefully you may have it sorted by the weekend if the weather allows you, good luck.

Click to expand...

Hi Steve, It doesn't have the flapless manifold but I do intend to remove the swirl flaps, however that's a job for another day. Yes, I made sure to do the oil filter before the engine went in. I did the fuel filter too but ended up removing it again (along with the housing) to get the AC pipes to nestle in to their slot.

I managed to get the wiring harness swapped over yesterday (there was much swearing!) and reconnected some of the pipes. I also re-fitted the module to the back of the turbo that I had to remove to get the engine in, and connected the exhaust to the turbo. I'm going to get the remainder of the pipes connected today, fit the TC/flexplate bolts, torque up the engine mounts and bell housing bolts, fit the starter and hopefully get some fluids in there.

When it comes to filling up with coolant is it a good idea to fill with water first to check for leaks, then drain it down and fill with coolant?

When it comes to filling up with coolant is it a good idea to fill with water first to check for leaks, then drain it down and fill with coolant?

Click to expand...

Personally i would fill with coolant 33% to water it's not that expensive, maybe £20 for 5lt concentrated which makes 15lts some go 50/50 to me you don't need that ratio in the UK

Arctic2 said:

Personally i would fill with coolant 33% to water it's not that expensive, maybe £20 for 5lt concentrated which makes 15lts some go 50/50 to me you don't need that ratio in the UK

Click to expand...

What is the operating temperature of Td4? I note that when diluting the concentrate with water, the boiling temperature of the coolant also decreases. if in the proportion of 50/50 it is 130/140 °C, then at 30/70 - 100/110 °C

Messerschmitt said:

What is the operating temperature of Td4? I note that when diluting the concentrate with water, the boiling temperature of the coolant also decreases. if in the proportion of 50/50 it is 130/140 °C, then at 30/70 - 100/110 °C

Click to expand...

The pressure cap keeps the coolant from boiling much more than the mix concentration. Regular OAT at 33% concentration will prevent boiling to 104°C. Increasing concentration to 50% increases boiling point to 110°C. Increasing to 60% increases the boiling point to 114°C, but reduces the ability to transfer heat away, which is the whole point of the coolant.
By contrast, for every 1 PSI of pressure in the system, the boiling point in increased by about 1.3°C. So an 18 PSI cap keeps boiling away until the engine gets to 123°C. Pressure in the system also increases heat transfer, which is why manufacturers fit pressurised cooling systems in combination with moderate concentrations of coolant.

Have you seen what happens if the pressure cap is removed from a hot engine with the correct mix of coolant? There will be a huge geezer of scalding hot coolant, because the moment the pressure is released the coolant begins to boil instantly, proving that concentration alone isn't what stops boiling, it's the pressure in the system.

Nodge68 said:

The pressure cap keeps the coolant from boiling much more than the mix concentration. Regular OAT at 33% concentration will prevent boiling to 104°C. Increasing concentration to 50% increases boiling point to 110°C. Increasing to 60% increases the boiling point to 114°C, but reduces the ability to transfer heat away, which is the whole point of the coolant.
By contrast, for every 1 PSI of pressure in the system, the boiling point in increased by about 1.3°C. So an 18 PSI cap keeps boiling away until the engine gets to 123°C. Pressure in the system also increases heat transfer, which is why manufacturers fit pressurised cooling systems in combination with moderate concentrations of coolant.

Have you seen what happens if the pressure cap is removed from a hot engine with the correct mix of coolant? There will be a huge geezer of scalding hot coolant, because the moment the pressure is released the coolant begins to boil instantly, proving that concentration alone isn't what stops boiling, it's the pressure in the system.

Click to expand...

Уou are absolutely right. I missed that detail based on figures from antifreeze manufacturers.

Hi Paul.
Anymore news on the engine transplantation, how is it going good we hope.

I've had a bit of a hectic week so work on the car has been sporadic but I have made some progress.

When I put the engine in I tightened up the engine/transmission bolts not realising that the flex plate and torque converter would be in quite firm contact. I had thought that I could still rotate the TC to align it with the holes in the flex plate but I just couldn't get it to rotate. I tried slackening the bolts off again and cracking apart the engine and transmission but I still couldn't get enough purchase on the TC to rotate it and align the holes. I ended up putting the engine back on the crane, removing the bolts entirely, removing the top engine mount and shuffling the engine over about 2" so that I could get my hand in and rotate the TC to the right place, I then inserted a long bolt thought the flex plate and into the TC to hold them in the right alignment while I got the engine and transmission bolted back together again. That cost me a whole afternoon and goes down in history as one of those things I'll remember for next time!

I put the F/R half shaft back in again but had to disconnect the hub from wishbone to get it in, that was a bit of a struggle. Putting it back together I needed to call in my wife to help. I stood on the wishbone while she manoeuvred the hub back onto the pin.

I put the engine heat shield and sound proofing back in and started putting some of the plastics back in. The battery went in and I connected it up to see if the old girl would wake up, she did, that was a great relief! I got the pipes and wiring all connected again, filled up the coolant, PSF and engine oil, no leaks so far but of course nothing is under pressure yet.

I was going to top up the ATF but I thought I'd drain it and replace it. Considering it was replaced at the 10 year service about 10k miles ago it was quite dirty. I got the level plug out OK but then realised that I don't have a 17mm hex bit to get the drain plug out so I'll have a go at making a tool for that today, if that fails I'll have to make the 35 mile round trip to Halfords or ECP to buy the tool. Nobody seems to sell the bits individually around here so I'll end up buying a set and my mrs will roll her eyes and add it to the list of tool purchases I've made for this project so that I can save us money by doing the job myself.

I've a feeling that the AT drain plug will fight me just as the filler plug did a while back. I ended up welding a large nut to the filler plug to get it off, hopefully I don't have to go that far with the drain plug.

It feels like the end is in sight and that I might actually make it over the finish line, there have been some dark times where I've almost thrown in the towel because I thought the job was just too big for me and I didn't have the expertise required to undertake such a big scary job. Obviously the proof of the pudding will be in the eating but I'm glad I took on the project. It was a case of scrap the car for a few hundred quid, pay a garage £££ to replace the engine or tackle it myself. From a financial point of view neither of the first two options were viable which left only the "roll your sleeves up and crack on" option.

Well today was the day. I did some final checks to make sure everything was where it was supposed to be, checked the fluid levels again, put some ATF in the box and went for it. It sounded like it was really straining to turn the engine over but after just a few seconds she fired into life and sounded really smooth. I was so relieved, all that hard graft had paid off ...

but hold on, not so fast there fella... what's that little drip coming from under the engine? It looks like engine oil dripping about once every ten seconds from below the flywheel. I left the engine running while I topped up the ATF a bit and by the time it had been running for about ten minutes the drip had become a steady stream.

Would I be right in thinking that it's likely to be the crankshaft seal that could be the culprit? I replaced the seal before I fitted the engine so it shouldn't be the seal itself, can it be fitted wrongly? I was very careful when fitting it and it looked identical (in terms of how far it was recessed etc) to the one I took out.

Am I looking at pulling the engine out again?

That's a bummer. As to fitting a seal wrong, it's possible. It can either be not sealing on it's outer edge for some reason, or it's possible that the inner lip has got flipped on installation, or even the tension spring has come off when it was installed. If it's a stream of oil, it's almost certainly the crank seal not sealing.

At least you know the new engine is a runner, you just need to keep the oil in it now.
Take a brake for Christmas, and look at it with fresh eyes afterwards.

Nodge68 said:

That's a bummer. As to fitting a seal wrong, it's possible. It can either be not sealing on it's outer edge for some reason, or it's possible that the inner lip has got flipped on installation, or even the tension spring has come off when it was installed. If it's a stream of oil, it's almost certainly the crank seal not sealing.

At least you know the new engine is a runner, you just need to keep the oil in it now.
Take a brake for Christmas, and look at it with fresh eyes afterwards.

Click to expand...

That's sage advice mate, thank you...

Unfortunately I totally disregarded it and pulled the engine back out again today

I'm not in a hurry to get it back in again, I just needed to get it out and confirm the oil was coming from the crankshaft seal; it looks like it was. I can't see anything obvious wrong with the seal though but then I'm a novice at all this lark.







In the process of getting the engine out I ran into some bother. The smaller terminal on the starter motor broke off (I've ordered a S/H one) and when I tried to drain the coolant the tap at the bottom of the radiator won't "pass water" (I can turn the tap but nothing comes out, I tried sticking a small screwdriver up there and having a poke around but to no avail). I thought I'd undo the drain plug on the new water pump and drain most of the coolant that way so I got a 6mm hex bit in my ratchet and tried to undo it. I didn't inflict much force on it but the plug split and started slowly dripping so I'll be extracting that one tomorrow and replacing it with something stronger. In the end I just put a big tub under the engine bay and pulled the pipes off.

I was asking a mechanic friend-of-a-friend about fitting crankshaft seals and he said that he uses grease on the inner face and liquid gasket sealant on the outer. He has been 30 years in the trade and says he's never had a seal leak doing it that way. I've read a lot about it and watched a few videos etc but I've never seen a seal fitted that way before. Obviously it shouldn't need the gasket sealant but as it's (hopefully!) very unlikely that the seal will ever need to come out again is there any good reason not to?

No, it won’t hurt to put a thin smear of sealer on the o/s of the seal. Happy Christmas.

Make sure the new seal outer face is flush with the block all the way round, not pushed below the block as it is in the picture.

I hope everyone had a very happy Christmas. I had a few days away with family and recharged my batteries.

I have fitted the new crankshaft oil seal and I'm really hoping for a better outcome this time.

Andy Warren said:

No, it won’t hurt to put a thin smear of sealer on the o/s of the seal. Happy Christmas.

Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. I did apply some silicone sealer when fitting the new oil seal.

Nodge68 said:

Make sure the new seal outer face is flush with the block all the way round, not pushed below the block as it is in the picture.

Click to expand...

I made the seal flush with the block this time. I cleaned the heck out of the crankshaft and block faces that contact the seal so there was absolutely no chance of debris compromising the seal.



Then I applied a thin smear of grease to the crankshaft, the inner face of the seal and the applicator tool supplied with the seal. The outer face of the seal got a smear of high temperature gasket sealant then I pressed the applicator onto the end of the crankshaft and used a 110mm underground drainage pipe fitting to push the seal gently home.




With the silicone and the grease the seal slipped into placed quite easily but then it started to push itself back out again at the top. I pushed it back in with the pipe fitting and held it there for a few minutes but it wasn't long enough for the sealant to set and hold it in place so I quickly fabricated a tool to hold it in place while the sealant went off.



The sealant instructions said it would take an hour to set so I gave it 2 hours and removed the tool. The seal stayed put.

I got the flex plate back on and dropped the engine back into the car. It was much easier this time around as I'd removed the AC compressor and PS pump and left them in situ so I didn't have to disconnect the pipes. The alternator was also removed.

While lowering the engine, when it was about 4 inches short of it's correct height, I halted the crane and bolted the AC compressor back on then continued lowering until I could fit the right side engine mount. I got three of the engine/transmission bolts in place on the bottom of the casing and tried to get the top bolts in but I just couldn't get the holes to line up correctly and after about 30 minutes of wrestling with it I called it a day. I'll go back to it today with renewed energy and enthusiasm!

Hi Paul.
Hope you and the family had a nice Christmas, seems we can not stop ourselves working on these FL2 i changed my rear discs and pads over on boxing day, hopefully this time round everything will be oil and water tight, you have done an amazing job on the engine swap considering you had never done it before, I'm you will be asked about any pit falls if myself or any other owner should ever need to tackle the same job, fingers crossed for a successful day today for you.

Arctic2 said:

Hi Paul.
Hope you and the family had a nice Christmas, seems we can not stop ourselves working on these FL2 i changed my rear discs and pads over on boxing day, hopefully this time round everything will be oil and water tight, you have done an amazing job on the engine swap considering you had never done it before, I'm you will be asked about any pit falls if myself or any other owner should ever need to tackle the same job, fingers crossed for a successful day today for you.

Click to expand...

Thank you my friend, we had a great Christmas, I hope you did too. Good to hear that you managed to get some FL2 work done - ! wish you a merry Disc-mas . I almost spent Christmas Day afternoon helping my brother-in-law remove the gearbox from his mk2 Golf GTi but we thought better of it in the end, we'll do it another day.

I am absolutely bricking it about starting the engine this time around. If it leaks again I'll be distraught! I do feel more confident that the seal has gone in properly this time but I guess I'll only find out for sure once she fires up.

I really hope that this thread can help others in the future and I'll be more than happy to help anyone who wants my advice and insights when attempting a similar job. I was a complete novice when I set out on this journey, I feel marginally less of a novice now.

What I would say to anyone who is doing work to their FL2 and wants to remove their engine is this; if you have a garage or covered place to work which has a reasonably level floor and you have a smattering of reasonable tools it is quite achievable.

Here's what I consider to be essential tools for doing the job:

- ¼", ⅜", ½" socket sets (I've used 8mm, 10mm, 11mm, 13mm, 15mm, 16mm, 17mm, 18mm, 21mm, 22mm sockets)
- socket extension bars and wobble bit
- breaker bar
- spanners
- trolley jack
- axle stands
- torx and hex bits
- oil pan
- inspection lamp
- torque wrench
- pliers, screwdrivers etc
- gloves (I use strong nitrile ones and wear work gloves over the top if I'm doing anything heavy duty)
- something warm to lay on when working under the car, a camping mat is ideal, a piece of plywood will do. It's no fun laying on the concrete!
- funnels
- telescopic magnetic pick-up tool (for recovering dropped nuts and bolts etc!)

and while not essential the addition of 8mm, 10mm and 13mm ratchet spanners made the job much more bearable.

I'd say buy rather than hire an engine crane, mine was less than £150. It takes the pressure off if you don't have to worry about returning it on a certain day and you can always sell it again for good money if you think you won't need it again.

The task seems daunting if, like me, you've never undertaken something like this before but it really is just a sequence of steps, none of which are hugely difficult by themselves. Take your time and go steady. I wouldn't start it on Friday evening hoping to have it ready to go again by Monday morning. I liver rurally so having another car has been imperative for me and has reduced the stress massively. If you have a second pair of hands available to help at times that is useful but not essential.

Happy New Year to you all.

I had a few hours spare yesterday so I decided I'd crack on and see if I could get the FL2 running. I got everything connected up and filled up the fluids. It was getting late so I thought I'd leave it until the morning to fire her up. I put the battery on charge and locked up.

I went out this morning and did a few final checks before hitting the Start button. She fired up and after a couple of little splutters getting the air out of the fuel system she purred very nicely. A quick check underneath and there was no sign of leaks so I left her running for a few minutes and went to do something else. When I came back there was a pool of ATF under the car and it was streaming out of the bell housing!

At this point I thought the best course of action would be to reverse it out of the garage, dowse it with petrol, drop a match and walk away. What I actually did was to switch off the engine, shove the oil pan under the car, lock the workshop and go somewhere quiet for a period of meditation.

The positives - There didn't appear to be any engine oil leaking, the engine ran sweetly, I couldn't see any other leaks or issues.

My guess would be that just as I cocked-up the crankshaft seal I must also have cocked up the transmission oil seal.

Assuming I'm looking at replacing the AT oil seal again is it any quicker or easier to pull the AT out rather than the engine to get to it?