FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

CaptainB · Oct 22, 2023

After doing some reading last night (god, how my Saturday nights have changed!) it looks likely that I'll be pulling the cylinder head off. I did find the borescope though so I'm going to have a poke around with that and see what I can see first.

If I can't rotate the crank is there anything I can do about the timing? Do I just have to accept that the timing will all be lost and have to set it all up again when I reassemble the engine? Or would I have had to do that anyway if I was removing the head? Do I need any special kit for setting up the timing or can it all be done from alignment holes and witness marks etc?

CaptainB · Oct 22, 2023

It turns out that my borescope is rubbish! I took some photos on my phone looking in the lower holes on the intake. Looking from the front of the car these are:

Left. ( X 0 0 0 )

Middle-left ( 0 X 0 0 )

Middle-right. ( 0 0 X 0 )

Right ( 0 0 0 X )

I couldn't believe how much gunge there is on the first two valves. The valve stems appear straight, other than that I'm not sure if anything else can be ascertained. I know it's not advised to rotate the crank anti-clockwise but should I do so in order to see if any of the valves move?

Nodge68 · Oct 22, 2023

As the head is coming off, there's no need to worry about timing just yet. You only need to worry about setting the crank in the timing position before the head goes back on. Ideally you need the timing pins set, as it needs to be spot on. A timing kit isn't expensive though, as it's a PSA/Ford engine.

It's about a 5 hour job to remove the head if it's the first time. I think it took me about 3 hours to get it off last time, and about 5 hours back on.

I need to replace my head gasket again, as I used an aftermarket one which was a mistake as it's letting combustion gasses to enter the coolant. I'll be using a genuine gasket and bolts next time.

CaptainB · Oct 23, 2023

Nodge68 said:
As the head is coming off, there's no need to worry about timing just yet. You only need to worry about setting the crank in the timing position before the head goes back on. Ideally you need the timing pins set, as it needs to be spot on. A timing kit isn't expensive though, as it's a PSA/Ford engine.

Nodge68 said:
It's about a 5 hour job to remove the head if it's the first time. I think it took me about 3 hours to get it off last time, and about 5 hours back on.

So I'm looking at about 5 days

Nodge68 said:
I need to replace my head gasket again, as I used an aftermarket one which was a mistake as it's letting combustion gasses to enter the coolant. I'll be using a genuine gasket and bolts next time.

If the head bolts come out and have no thread damage and no rust is it ok to reuse them? I don't want to cut corners but on the other hand money is a bit tight at the moment. I'm guessing you would recommend a genuine LR gasket?

Nodge68 · Oct 23, 2023

CaptainB said:
So I'm looking at about 5 days

If the head bolts come out and have no thread damage and no rust is it ok to reuse them? I don't want to cut corners but on the other hand money is a bit tight at the moment. I'm guessing you would recommend a genuine LR gasket?

The head bolts will come out just fine as they are coated in tin for lubrication. However you can't reuse them as they are torque to yeald bolts (often called stretch bolts), so new bolts need to be used on reassembly.
You'll need an accurate torque wrench (mine under torqued the bolts)(possibly a reason my HG is leaking), and there's an angle setting after torque is reached. The bolts are pulled seriously tight on these, so be prepared to use a long bleaker bar with the angle gauge.
I'd only suggest an OE or genuine gasket, and you need to know what thickness to use, as there are 4, but the gaskets are identified by a series of holes in the ID tag.

CaptainB · Oct 23, 2023

Nodge68 said:
The head bolts will come out just fine as they are coated in tin for lubrication. However you can't reuse them as they are torque to yeald bolts (often called stretch bolts), so new bolts need to be used on reassembly.
You'll need an accurate torque wrench (mine under torqued the bolts)(possibly a reason my HG is leaking), and there's an angle setting after torque is reached. The bolts are pulled seriously tight on these, so be prepared to use a long bleaker bar with the angle gauge.
I'd only suggest an OE or genuine gasket, and you need to know what thickness to use, as there are 4, but the gaskets are identified by a series of holes in the ID tag.

Point taken on the head bolts, thank you.

I was going well today and removed the EGR pipe, vacuum pump, injectors, fuel pump, common rail and fuel hoses and cables etc. I was removing the bolts for the camshaft cover but one of them was badly corroded and typically it's one that in a recess so it's really awkward to get anything on it. I tried a pair of small mole grips clamped vertically on it then used a pair of grips to try and rotate the mole grips but I just ended up mangling it further.

Do I need to remove the crankshaft pulley to remove the head? If so, do you have any suggestions about how to stop the crankshaft from rotating while trying to loosen the bolt? I didn't want to rotate the crank anti-clockwise and damage anything further.

Nodge68 · Oct 23, 2023

With the bolt that won't turn, I'd use a bolt removal too, however you could try tapping on the top of the bolt with a hammer. This often compresses the material below the head, giving slightly less tension, shocks the threads free if they are stuck. If this fails, an extractor will be needed.
Amazon product

If you are replacing the belt (I would) then the pulley bolt will need to be removed. The timing kit also contains a plate that bolts to the starter holes, and has a sliding block which locks the flywheel using the ring gear teath.

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CaptainB · Oct 24, 2023

Nodge68 said:
I need to replace my head gasket again, as I used an aftermarket one which was a mistake as it's letting combustion gasses to enter the coolant. I'll be using a genuine gasket and bolts next time.

If your gasket is a "4 hole" type this looks like a bargain:

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CaptainB · Oct 24, 2023

Are there any brands of gasket (apart from LR of course) that anyone can recommend? Or any in particular to avoid?

Nodge68 · Oct 24, 2023

CaptainB said:
Are there any brands of gasket (apart from LR of course) that anyone can recommend? Or any in particular to avoid?

I use a BGA kit last time, but I'm not 100% sure exactly what has caused it to not hold the compression correctly. It could be the gasket wasn't up to spec, or the bolts not strong enough, or even the fact that my torque wrench wasn't pulling as hard as it should have, or maybe a combination of all three?
I've bought that LR gasket, but will probably buy a kit for the rest of the gaskets needed, as it's a much cheaper option, and all the other gaskets in the kit have been fine.

CaptainB · Oct 30, 2023

After a weekend of discovering the finer points of engine disassembly (there was much swearing and occasional throwing tools around!) I finally have the EGR cooler out, the camshaft cover off and all the other bits that preceded them removed and bagged up.

As soon as the camshaft cover came off I could see what I think is the problem. It looks like one of the rocker arms has slipped out of place. However, if that's the problem wouldn't that have kept the valve closed and therefore it wouldn't have mashed into the piston?

I'm just about to go and take the camshafts out and see if I can see any further evidence. Do I need to have the crankshaft pulley off to get the timing belt off to get the exhaust camshaft out? I tried last week to get it off but it was having none of it. I think I'm going to have to get the upper engine mount out of the way to make so room to get a 6' scaffold pole on my breaker bar.

CaptainB · Oct 30, 2023

Ok, I’ve worked out that the valve retainer should be holding the valve up but that is missing. The camshaft looks like it’s taken some shrapnel damage, possibly what was stopping the engine turning over if the rocker was wedged in there?? I guess I’ll know for sure when I’ve got the head off.

Haynes says that the cat and the turbo have to come out before the exhaust manifold. Has anyone taken the head off without having to remove the turbo and cat?

Nodge68 · Oct 30, 2023

CaptainB said:
Ok, I’ve worked out that the valve retainer should be holding the valve up but that is missing. The camshaft looks like it’s taken some shrapnel damage, possibly what was stopping the engine turning over if the rocker was wedged in there?? I guess I’ll know for sure when I’ve got the head off.

View attachment 301351

Haynes says that the cat and the turbo have to come out before the exhaust manifold. Has anyone taken the head off without having to remove the turbo and cat?

Looks like the valve retainer has come adrift, possibly because the valve has broken. This is the cause for the engine stopping, as the broken valve has dropped into the combustion chamber.

There's no need to remove the turbo, it stays in place through the whole head off process. You simply have to unbolt the turbo to exhaust manifold bolts, and lift the exhaust manifold off the turbo flange. To allow the exhaust manifold to lift off the turbo, you need to remove the manifold studs, which means unscrewing them with a tiny torx bit on the end of the studs. It helps if you remove the firewall, as it gives some extra space down the back to get tools and hands.

Nodge68 · Oct 30, 2023

Here's mine with the head off, where the turbo is in its normal fitted location.

CaptainB · Oct 30, 2023

I've got the exhaust manifold off, compared to some of the earlier stuff it was relatively easy and I was really happy to learn that I didn't need to remove the cat and turbo - cheers @Nodge68 for that tip. I've got the engine jacked up and taken off the upper engine mount. I was just about to start undoing the head bolts when it started raining so I've got that to look forward to in the morning.

What do you think about the camshaft? Does it need repair/replacement? Is it advisable to still run it like this? It looks like the damage isn't on the contacting part of the cam.

Nodge68 · Oct 30, 2023

CaptainB said:
I've got the exhaust manifold off, compared to some of the earlier stuff it was relatively easy and I was really happy to learn that I didn't need to remove the cat and turbo - cheers @Nodge68 for that tip. I've got the engine jacked up and taken off the upper engine mount. I was just about to start undoing the head bolts when it started raining so I've got that to look forward to in the morning.

What do you think about the camshaft? Does it need repair/replacement? Is it advisable to still run it like this? It looks like the damage isn't on the contacting part of the cam.
View attachment 301394

That camshaft is fine. The chipping on the lobes isn't where the follower roller runs, so it's fine. From memory my original exhaust cam was like that, however my current cam is from an SD4, which is a steel bullet cam, not a casting.

Nodge68 · Oct 30, 2023

Here's my original cam. You can just make out the damaged on the cam lobes. It's pretty clear that the cast cams left the factory like it.

backinblack · Oct 30, 2023

I may be talking Bollox but have those bits been shaved off at the factory to balance it up?

CaptainB · Oct 30, 2023

Nodge68 said:
Here's my original cam. You can just make out the damaged on the cam lobes. It's pretty clear that the cast cams left the factory like it.View attachment 301402

Huh, that's interesting. So it might not have sustained damage from the misplaced rocker. It would be really good to think that I don't have to replace/repair it.

Nodge68 · Oct 30, 2023

CaptainB said:
Huh, that's interesting. So it might not have sustained damage from the misplaced rocker. It would be really good to think that I don't have to replace/repair it.

No need to replace the cam, but depending in what condition the piston and head are in, you might be replacing the whole unit anyway.

FL2 Engine Stopped While Driving - Dropped Valve, Engine Swap

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