FL1 clutch slipping mid-range

Ey up gang,

Bit of advice, yet again, please.

For the past 5 months, the clutch on my FL1 TD4 ('04 Sport Premium) seems to be slipping intermittently. Typically in 4th, if I try to accelerate hard, at about 2,500 rpm the engine revs will surge rapidly, sometimes up to 3k, then drop back down and rise again as normal. Does it occasionally in 3rd and also a little bit in 5th. It makes overtakes more fun, and not in a pleasant way. Seems to be worse when climbing or heavier load. The biting point is currently quite high, so I make sure I'm foot-off when accelerating. If I drive like Miss Daisy, I have no issues whatsoever.

From first noticing it, it has only got slightly worse (~1,500 miles) I think. If I try and let the clutch out whilst the handbrake is on, it always stalls.

Current mileage 153k.
Clutch & Master cylinder both replaced April 2015 (~115k miles) so over 4 years and 40k on the part, which I think isn't old age.

Got a trip to Skye cottage coming up in 6 weeks which will bang 1,500 miles on in one go, and FULLY loaded for the most part. I really don't want to be setting off with any doubts, and definitely not as it currently is. Usually have a full service before we go. Would like to know if I need to book in for clutch work too. I've seen some posts mentioning the flywheel, and it adding loads to the job.

I was intending to sell my Landy next March, after the MoT so I'm cautious about throwing significant amounts of money at it right now. I'd rather use that now to go towards a newer used beast, but OMG how expensive are they these days!

Weird history footnote - this clutch hasn't been trouble free. A seep meant it would very slowly lose fluid, and the biting point would drop very low to the point I was fighting with the gearstick and crunching occasionally. Once identified, I used to get the fluid topped up and bled twice a year during the routine stuff. This kept it at bay. When I felt the biting point go high (just before MoT) I asked for this to be done as usual. My mech told me it didn't need doing as the fluid was fine and the leak seemed to have stopped (???). I discussed this new problem and was told the clutches are self-adjusting so there's nothing more to do right now.

So thoughts please? Clutch? Flywheel? Clutch AND flywheel? Likely costs? Worth doing at this age?

Sounds like the clutch plate isn't being clamped tight by the cover. Or the plate is worn out already. What was the quality of the replacement clutch? A TD4 clutch can be done in as little as 30K miles, if lots of towing is done, but 75 to 90 K is a more normal distance for a clutch that's not worked hard.

Amy sign of oil leaks from the bell housing? Rear main seal could be gone and putting oil onto clutch plate.

TheGPMG said:

For the past 5 months, the clutch on my FL1 TD4 ('04 Sport Premium) seems to be slipping intermittently. Typically in 4th, if I try to accelerate hard, at about 2,500 rpm the engine revs will surge rapidly, sometimes up to 3k, then drop back down and rise again as normal. Does it occasionally in 3rd and also a little bit in 5th. It makes overtakes more fun, and not in a pleasant way. Seems to be worse when climbing or heavier load. The biting point is currently quite high, so I make sure I'm foot-off when accelerating. If I drive like Miss Daisy, I have no issues whatsoever.

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I guess your repair cost will depend on the approach; DIY vs. garage repair. Exactly the same symptoms on ours at the moment, including the high bite. We just bought a 3 piece clutch kit (clutch plate, pressure plate and slave cylinder/bearing), transmission oil, clutch fluid, engine oil, and a new crankshaft seal just in case it's an oil leak that's causing the slipping. That's for about £200. Planning on a fun-filled bank holiday weekend on me back under the hippo! Common wisdom suggests changing the master cylinder too but you can do that after the clutch as long as it lives long enough to bleed the system.

As for the flywheel, you really won't know till the gearbox is off. We're risking it and checking the condition after it's all apart. £400+ for a dual mass one is a hefty outlay for an unknown. Particularly as you plan to sell yours soon.

Expect in the region of £1,000 + parts cost at a garage. Way more at a main stealer. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the responses guys.

Zero towing done on this clutch. And 95% driver only, no cargo. Country lanes rather than motorway miles.

I’ve experienced a contaminated clutch before, hence the stall test (original wouldn’t stall even in 5th when it failed). So fairly certain not that and no leaks on driveway.

It seems to get slightly better or worse depending on time/temperature of day and weather conditions. I think. Seemed worse early this morning, slightly damp and cooler. Slipped at 2,250rpm (lower) and surged more. Or maybe that’s just a random depending on where the clutch mates each time I take my foot off.

Definitely won’t be a DIY job. Fortunately I get mates rates with a pet mechanic and now garage owner! But still need to cover the parts of course. I think around £500 is going to make me thinker harder about repair or retire, and that’s with pre trip service.

TheGPMG said:

But still need to cover the parts of course. I think around £500 is going to make me thinker harder about repair or retire, and that’s with pre trip service.

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A good condition Sport is worth fixing, being the most sort after FL1. You'll not be able to replace it for the £500, the repairis going to cost.

Certainly wasn’t expecting to replace for £500. Just that higher amount might be better invested in going towards the budget for a fresher vehicle.

weemac said:

We're risking it and checking the condition after it's all apart.

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@weemac Id appreciate an update after the weekend how yours goes.

TheGPMG said:

@weemac Id appreciate an update after the weekend how yours goes.

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Will do. Plan to post the normal image-fest in my project thread, too. And any other observations.

Dodgy clutch on an older car is a pain. If you can do it yourself then it's worth doing, especially if you get away without replacing the flywheel. If you're having to pay a garage then probably better off financially selling it on as a fixer upper.

Alibro said:

If you're having to pay a garage then probably better off financially selling it on as a fixer upper.

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I'd buy it if it met all my criteria, and wasn't too far away.

Eh up. Clutch done at the weekend (new clutch plate, pressure plate and slave cylinder). Not a job for the faint hearted Didn't need to replace the flywheel. A bit of play either way but nothing significant (have some images that I'll post when I get a minute). Some discolouration on the friction surface from the heat but no scoring or gouges. Clutch plate was very worn and there was lots of residual dust in the bell housing. I'm amazed I wasn't running it on the rivets! Also didn't replace the crankshaft seal as everything was still bone dry. I guess the future will tell me whether that was a good idea.

Hopefully yours will be the same but, as I said, you won't know till it's apart. Hope that helps.

How did you line it up?

Alibro said:

How did you line it up?

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Long 10mm 1/4" socket with an OD that matched the ID of the bearing inside the flywheel, a 1/4" extension bar (6" long) and an old 1/2" socket that with an OD that matched the ID of the clutchplate splines (bit of a mouthful, sorry). Packed lots of little bits of dense foam into the space inside the 1/2" socket to keep it centred on the extension bar. That tied the whole tool together. I measured between the extension bar and pressure plate lots and eyeballed until my neck hurt It worked really well as the gearbox went back on very easily and the clutch works great. No vibrations. The IRD was a bar steward but I'll get to that once I'm done processing and hosting the photos

You were fortunate to have bars and sockets the right size. I had to wrap tape around mine to make it a tight fit.
Did you install the IRD before raising the engine and bolting it back up? I found this made it much easier to manage. I think I mentioned it in my write up.

Alibro said:

Did you install the IRD before raising the engine and bolting it back up? I found this made it much easier to manage. I think I mentioned it in my write up.

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Yep. Followed your guide closely. Lifted the IRD into place with the engine still lowered but it would just not go home. I have a blanking plate instead of a rear drive pinion so couldn't turn the box over to align the splines. Had to secure it half in and lift the engine back up before shoving the drive shaft back in and wiggling until it lined up. Not ideal.

weemac said:

Yep. Followed your guide closely. Lifted the IRD into place with the engine still lowered but it would just not go home. I have a blanking plate instead of a rear drive pinion so couldn't turn the box over to align the splines. Had to secure it half in and lift the engine back up before shoving the drive shaft back in and wiggling until it lined up. Not ideal.

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Ah! I forgot I had to turn the rear drive to get the IRD home. Never thought of how to do it if removed.