Freelander 2 (LR2) [FIXED] LR2 Suspected Turbo Failure

Good point Nodge.
I’ve just recently installed SDD and was looking through your thread on it - I notice you mentioned that you recalibrated the air sensors using SDD.
Do you happen to have a run through?

Currently having problems with SDD not picking u my mongoose clone but I think it’s a missing driver issue so will look at it in the morning.

Nodge68 said:

If you've changed anything in the air path, then it needs an air path calibration before proceeding. These engines need proper calibration when anything is changed, as the ECM doesn't have default settings, and isn't self learning, so any new items need to have there parameters set with a suitable diagnostic tool.

Click to expand...

Hi Nodge,
Finally got SDD up and running. Tried doing the air path calibration but it failed on the EGR and a few other points to note.
I've attached the PDF of the results if you would be kind enough to help me decipher what my next course of action should be.
Cheers

For anyone that doesn't want to download the attached PDF in my previous post...

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IDLE SPEED TEST RESULT
EGR fault please investigate before replacing any components or re-run the application.

Possible causes :
1. Mechanical partial or fully stuck open
2. Mechanical partial or fully stuck closed
3. Electrical connectivity short circuit/ open circuit
4. Incorrect position/ slow response time on cleaning / Shut of cycle-usually due to items 1 or 2.

FAST IDLE TEST RESULT
PRIMARY CAUSE/ CONCERN
Low pressure leak :
Carry out boost pressure leak test, instructions are on TOPIx: Powertrain, 303:00 and navigate to 'Leakage test using smoke test equipment'
Visual check of all pipe work after MAF sensor to inlet side of the turbo:
Check joints/mating faces are secure and flush fitting with no gaps or creases in grommets/flanges.
Check all fasteners are secured and correctly tightened.
Check for cracks/splits/holes/weathering in pipe work.
Rectify faults as required.

SECONDARY CAUSES/ CONCERNS
Boost leak :
Carry out boost pressure leak test, instructions are on TOPIx: Powertrain, 303:00 and navigate to 'Leakage test using smoke test equipment'
Visual check of all pipe work from boost side of turbo to inlet manifold:
Check joints/mating faces are secure and flush fitting with no gaps or creases in grommets/flanges.
Check all fasteners are secured and correctly tightened.
Check for cracks/splits/holes/weathering in pipe work
Rectify faults as required.

MAF and MAP low :
Carry out visual checks on the condition of the MAF MAP sensor:
Check the connectors are seated correctly.
Check for damage to connectors and wiring harness.
Check for any foreign object /water ingress.
Rectify faults as required.

EGR fault please investigate before replacing any components or re-run the application.
Possible causes :
1. Mechanical partial or fully stuck open
2. Mechanical partial or fully stuck closed
3. Electrical connectivity short circuit/ open circuit
4. Incorrect position/ slow response time on cleaning / Shut of cycle-usually due to items 1 or 2

So you need to investigate the EGR issue, as the calculation can't be carried out with issues pending.
Look for EGR blanking, which is quite common, and not necessary.

Nodge68 said:

So you need to investigate the EGR issue, as the calculation can't be carried out with issues pending.
Look for EGR blanking, which is quite common, and not necessary.

Click to expand...

I can’t believe I overlooked that.
I did blank the EGR a while back. Will have to remove it and try the calibration again.

Will report back!
Cheers

Nodge68 said:

So you need to investigate the EGR issue, as the calculation can't be carried out with issues pending.
Look for EGR blanking, which is quite common, and not necessary.

Click to expand...

New results...
Nodge, you were right on the EGR blanking issue.

I don't think the turbo vanes are damaged as it was recently rebuilt - I do wonder if the actuator arm is getting full motion, however, this turbo passed on the last test I ran so I wonder if it's a fluke?

I think I know where the low boost leak is coming from, the connection between the weird air intake pipe and the downpipe into the turbo is loose and I can't seem to get a good clamp around both without it looking off.
:


New results:



The turbo REA has moved but is not within the set limits, do not replace. Please investigate other possible causes, such as induction system leaks sticking REA arm.

IDLE SPEED TEST RESULT
PRIMARY CAUSE/ CONCERN
REA/ Vanes stuck :
Visual check of REA connector and actuator arm condition:
Check the actuator arm for signs of corrosion and ease of movement
.Check the connectors are seated correctly.
Check for damage to connectors and wiring harness.
Check for any foreign object /water ingress.
Rectify faults as required.

SECONDARY CAUSES/ CONCERNS
Compressor turbine damage :
Visual Check turbine condition:
Check for any sustained damage to compressor impeller, from centre to the tips, scrutinise any small marks, see document for visual guide.
Check compressor housing for scoring marks or high polished surfaces, to indicate bearing failure, inspect the throw of the centre shaft for movement.
Rectify faults as required.

FAST IDLE TEST RESULT
PRIMARY CAUSE/ CONCERN
Low pressure leak :
Carry out boost pressure leak test, instructions are on TOPIx: Powertrain, 303:00 and navigate to 'Leakage test using smoke test equipment'
Visual check of all pipe work after MAF sensor to inlet side of the turbo:
Check joints/mating faces are secure and flush fitting with no gaps or creases in grommets/flanges.Check all fasteners are secured and correctly tightened.
Check for cracks/splits/holes/weathering in pipe work.
Rectify faults as required.

SECONDARY CAUSES/ CONCERNS
Boost leak :Carry out boost pressure leak test, instructions are on TOPIx: Powertrain, 303:00 and navigate to 'Leakage test using smoke test equipment'
Visual check of all pipe work from boost side of turbo to inlet manifold:
Check joints/mating faces are secure and flush fitting with no gaps or creases in grommets/flanges.Check all fasteners are secured and correctly tightened.
Check for cracks/splits/holes/weathering in pipe work.
Rectify faults as required.

MAF and MAP low :
Carry out visual checks on the condition of the MAF MAP sensor:
Check the connectors are seated correctly.
Check for damage to connectors and wiring harness.
Check for any foreign object /water ingress.
Rectify faults as required

Another update.
Sadly no good news as yet.
Have taken the car to a garage recommended by a friend.

Spent an hour or so with the mechanic who checked continuity within the harness
Signal from the ECU to actuator.
He said that the actuator doesn't seem to be actuating - including the old one.
MAP sensor output is half of what it should be.

He did hear a hiss coming from the EGR cooler, under the left hand side of the common fuel rail although couldn't find the source of the noise with a smoke machine/soapy water.

He thinks it's either the actuator, turbo itself or the ECU.

The ECU seems plausible as another garage told me that he thinks someone has tried a DPF delete on the car.
Potentially confirmed by this mechanic who also said that the DPF pressure seems really low even when revving.

He thinks that an actual leak can be ruled out at this stage, however he has the car for further diagnosis.

UPDATE
For anyone with a persistent p0299/underboost or reduced engine performance:

Finally found the cause of my underboost.
The exhaust has been unclipped from the output side of the turbo and she flies.
No codes, pulls hard, even up hills.

Suspected blocked cat or DPF which, while not good news due to price, it should finally put an end to loading the parts canon.

Will provide one last wrap up once everything is squared away and working with a tl;dr

Interim update:
Took both the DPF and cat to a DPF cleaning company.

Unfortunately the DPF is aftermarket and so the DPF cleaner guy wasn't keen on cleaning it due to the tendency for the honeycomb structure to move when under pressure. He nevertheless ran a pressure test and said that there's no restriction.

The cat however is a completely different story.
If you shake it, it sounds like a maraca. A pressure test showed massive airflow restriction - he said there was nothing he could do to fix it. I suspect it got too hot and the internals have broken up - luckily the side of the cat that bolts to the DPF is intact meaning it's unlikely that any of the cat internals have made it into the DPF.

My next move is to drill out the cat, reattach to the car and see if the problem is resolved. If so, when I'm feeling a little more flush with cash, I'll replace the cat

As with my previous post, I'll come back and confirm everything is working.

Hi all,

Final update on this turbo underboost saga.

I wanted to provide a quick summary on the work carried out, solution and lessons learned in an effort to save everyone some time and money.

For 9 months I’ve had a p0299 DTC - turbo underboost causing my FL2 to go into limp mode when under load - especially uphill and high gear, low speed.

First garage diagnosed the turbo as the fault and offered to rebuild the turbo. When fitted, they said it didn’t resolve the issue and pointed to the wiring loom to the actuator as being damaged.

I then did some investigating myself and decided to replace the boost hoses as the general consensus is either fault turbo or split boost hoses.

This also didn’t resolve the issue. I then replaced the intercooler with no result.

MAF and MAP sensors were changed, as in for a penny mentality took over. Nothing.
A DPF specialist then told me the actuator was faulty, so a new one was ordered and fitted - nothing again.

Decided to shell out for a “new” rebuilt OEM turbo with actuator. Fitted that and again, nothing.

Was starting to suspect leaking EGR or exhaust manifold.

When I mentioned my suspicions to the third mechanic, they removed the exhaust pipe from the turbo and just like that, she flew.
It was finally diagnosed as either a damaged catalytic converter or DPF.

Shaking the cat, you’d hear rattling, like maracas so that was quickly identified as the root cause. I took a crowbar and hammer to remove the damaged honeycomb (which was pointless in the end).

Gave my cat to an exhaust specialist as I wasn’t keen on spending crazy money on a new one. An after market universal catalytic converter was welded to my existing one once that was cut out.
The welding was a bit suspect but otherwise fine.


Reattached both “new” cat and old DPF and that has finally cured my underboost.

Took her for a bash up and down the motorway and was easily hitting 150kph - didn’t want to push much harder as it’ll be my luck the timing belt will snap.
Moral of my story is to always check EVERY failure point and not to just go with the most obvious solution first.
Thank you to all who chimed in and offered advice.

With my prolonged experience with this, I’m hoping I can stick around and offer some help to others!

As a side note, if anyone is after a FL2 Garrett turbo with actuator(s) let me know!

Well done. The turbo often gets the blame for a P0299 code, but it's seldom anything to do with the turbo.

Hello HaggisMuncher!

My 2008 FL2 has a similar problem. P0299 eml comes on and car drives fine for months but can't find anything obvious. Mine hasn't got a DPF and has 170k on the clock so could be egr/turbo due to age but the Cat is a very interesting find.

May I ask how you were able to carry out an air path recalibration and how did you do that air leak test ? Do you need some sort of OBD scanner? I only have a cheap Bluetooth Torque Pro Scanner.

Thanks!!

kiwiNCFC said:

Hello HaggisMuncher!

My 2008 FL2 has a similar problem. P0299 eml comes on and car drives fine for months but can't find anything obvious. Mine hasn't got a DPF and has 170k on the clock so could be egr/turbo due to age but the Cat is a very interesting find.

May I ask how you were able to carry out an air path recalibration and how did you do that air leak test ? Do you need some sort of OBD scanner? I only have a cheap Bluetooth Torque Pro Scanner.

Thanks!!

Click to expand...

Hi mate.
My P0299 plague me for nearly a year, it was that bad!

For the airpath calibration, I bought a knock off Mongoose JLR USB reader from Aliexpress (20 quid or something). It came with the SDD software. Worth it's weight in gold. You might be able to find it on eBay for slightly more but with better buyer protection.

I do think any half decent-ish reader should be able to do a calibration, although, with it being a JLR car, maybe not. I have a dirty cheap bluetooth OBD2 reader I use just for reading and clearing codes.

The leak test I again used a smoke machine from Aliexpress (cheaper than buying them on eBay etc). I bought an Ancel S300 - you can find them on Amazon and eBay. Handy bit of kit for diagnostics.

My advice would be to first check all your boost hoses, the intercooler and then disconnecting your exhaust from the turbo.

Failing that, I have my old OEM turbo and actuator that was reconditioned - happy for you to try see if it works.
I learned the hard way though, most times it's not the turbo that's broken!!

Thanks so much! I have already replaced all boost hoses and still no joy. Intercooler looks a bit old and rusty so could be leaking but who knows. Do you think some smoke pellets would work? That looks like a great machine but a bit pricey!

OK thanks for the info on mongoose readers. There's one on ebay now that includes a CD. Is that all I need to get it running?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18620196...ohPhoDHTZe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That's very kind of you regarding the turbo offer! Yes I think we don't give them enough credit these turbos and FL2s in general. It's been a cracking car for years and generally reliable but a fault like this that you keep chasing really does wear you down, especially when you keep taking it into land rover 'specialists' that can't find anything wrong with it and want to replace parts for the sake of it! Will keep you updated!! thanks again!

kiwiNCFC said:

Thanks so much! I have already replaced all boost hoses and still no joy. Intercooler looks a bit old and rusty so could be leaking but who knows. Do you think some smoke pellets would work? That looks like a great machine but a bit pricey!

OK thanks for the info on mongoose readers. There's one on ebay now that includes a CD. Is that all I need to get it running?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18620196...ohPhoDHTZe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That's very kind of you regarding the turbo offer! Yes I think we don't give them enough credit these turbos and FL2s in general. It's been a cracking car for years and generally reliable but a fault like this that you keep chasing really does wear you down, especially when you keep taking it into land rover 'specialists' that can't find anything wrong with it and want to replace parts for the sake of it! Will keep you updated!! thanks again!

Click to expand...

I ended up replacing the intercooler on mine because I had already decided I was going to fire the parts canon anyway.
I actually made a smoke machine from a soldering iron and bike pump in an old pickle jar.
I found incense sticks were a good alternative to sacrificing a soldering iron though. This is a good example of what I made:


Judging by the price and the fact it’s bidding makes me think it’s a genuine mongoose, mine is a fake Aliexpress one which hasn’t let me down. If you can find just the cable a cheaper, I can send you the software - I’ve got SDD v160 which I think is the last version that works with fake mongoose cables.

You sound like you’re exactly where I was. Far too many mechanics were willing to suggest to me that I needed to replace the turbo or actuator without doing a proper diagnostic.

My old intercooler ended up looking like this, which I thought showed signs of leaking but ended up being fine


Definitely unclip the turbo from the exhaust first though. It’s the easier and quickest check.
Replacing the intercooler involved removing the front bumper and crash beam which is an easy enough task just pretty cumbersome.



Please do let me know how you get on. This P0299 has become a personal enemy of mine now!

kiwiNCFC said:

OK thanks for the info on mongoose readers. There's one on ebay now that includes a CD. Is that all I need to get it running?

Click to expand...

Side note, I bought this one on AliExpress - ships from Poland so was quick to arrive. All in about £35 or so.