Fix or Ditch?

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dee.bee

New Member
Posts
9
I own a 2013 FL2 SD4 Auto. I'd like some opinions on whether I should fix the latest issue, or ditch the car for a replacement. Here's some context...

- The car has been very well maintained throughout it's lifetime and has just ticket over 100k miles.
- I do ~10,000 miles per year
- The regular servicing schedule is up to date and I have it serviced annually even if the onboard computer doesn't say it's ready
- Recently needed a front diff replacement (Oct 2023)
- At the same time as the diff change I also had a minor service, flushed the gearbox oil, replaced the timing belt and water pump, serviced the haldex, and replaced all 4 tyres (totalling ~£2.8k incl the diff replacement above)
- All work carried out by an independent LR specialist garage

The car is now looking like it needs a Torque Converter replacement, Haldex replacement and rear drop link replacement, which I guess is likely to set me back at least another £2k.

I love my FL2. It does everything I need it to, with a tow bar and Flat Dog roof rack fitted. But the maintenance is becoming expensive. Do I carry on spending money on maintenance or buy a new car? Am I likely to encounter a lot more big-ticket items failing?

I need a four wheel drive and towing capability so I can get on and off the beach with my trailer. Buying even a used replacement feels very expensive given I'd need to finance it aside from whatever I could sell the FL2 for (seems ~7k), plus kit it out with a roof rack and tow bar. I don't particularly like the idea of having a monthly car payment again when interest rates are so high either.

Maybe I have answered my own question here... 🤔
 
I'm curious as to how the car can be described as well maintained, yet was 3 years late for a timing belt.

There's more to maintenance than changing the engine oil, unless you're following the completely inadequate LR 150k mile service intervals.
The Haldex needs 30k fluid and filter changes, or it'll start to judder. The rear diff and PTU also benefit from the same 30k oil changes. The gearbox should have it's fluid changes done at 50k miles, or issues occur. Even doing the engine oil once per year will be too long, as these things need 6k mile oil and filter changes to keep the engine happy.
These are complicated and expensive vehicles, so skimping on vital maintenance is just asking for expensive repair bills.
As for fixing it. What else can you get for the same price as the latest repair?

If you fix and keep it, make sure the maintenance is done at the intervals above, completely ignoring the LR intervals.
 
I guess by well maintained I’m saying it’s had everything done that needs done according to the service book, to the best of my ability and finances. The timing belt being late was a mistake but it didn’t fail so I got lucky. But when it comes to things not in the book, it’s difficult to know what is needed. I’m just a regular car owner, not an expert by any means. I am confident I do a lot more than the average person though (evidenced by the haldex and gearbox maintenance I’ve already carried out several times).

Anyway… I wasn’t aware of the PTU and rear diff fluid changes. Noted! I doubt this has ever been done on the rear.

To my original question, are there any major parts that you might expect to be coming towards end of life, even in a world of perfect servicing? Anything you’d expect to have to routinely replace soon, given the age and mileage of my car?
 
LR have to shoulder the blame for lack of servicing, as they're the ones who printed the book, and a normal owner wouldn't necessarily know that extending fluid changes will cause issues.
Unfortunately all manufacturers now do the same thing, extending service intervals on driveline components to the point that "filled for life" means the life of the components, not the vehicle. These components would undoubtedly last much longer if there were timely fluid changes.

So you're now in the situation where you will be or already have replaced driveline components on a vehicle at only ⅓ of its useful life.

So as you've already replaced the PTU (I'm assuming that's what you're call the front diff?), and the rear diff, that's half the major fail items.

What is up with the Haldex, and why does it need replacing?

Why does it need a TC, does it shudder?

Tyres are maintenance items, so can't be counted as a failure, same with drop links.
 
From the haldex I get the jumping/skipping when pulling away from a standing start with any lock on the wheel (pulling away straight is fine). Considering that it has been regularly serviced since my ownership and the most recent service didn’t solve it, my mechanic has suggested it needs replacing.

(Side note, any thoughts on this? I’m dubious but intrigued: https://www.haldexrepairs.co.uk/shop/ecu-repair-services/haldex-ecu-scrabble-stopper/ ).

For the TC, I’m getting juddering at low revs (roughly 1500k) when cruising. If I drop a gear in command shift, or cause it to kick down in auto then the juddering stops. As I had the auto box fully flushed and all of the fluid replaced about 5k miles ago, I figured it’s likely in need of replacement. Though interestingly I did not have this issue before the flush at all (I did the flush as a matter of routine, not due to any problems). I first noticed it about a month ago. I guess there is a chance the wrong fluid could have been used? Though the garage I use is a long running and well renowned independent LR specialist and I’d be surprised of such a mistake.

Yes by diff I mean PTU. Unsure of the difference between the terms. I thought they were interchangeable.

I’ve changed the front PTU but not the rear. But I have not had PTU fluid changes done ever as I did not know they were required.
 
dee.bee said:
From the haldex I get the jumping/skipping when pulling away from a standing start with any lock on the wheel (pulling away straight is fine). Considering that it has been regularly serviced since my ownership and the most recent service didn’t solve it, my mechanic has suggested it needs replacing.

(Side note, any thoughts on this? I’m dubious but intrigued: https://www.haldexrepairs.co.uk/shop/ecu-repair-services/haldex-ecu-scrabble-stopper/ ).

For the TC, I’m getting juddering at low revs (roughly 1500k) when cruising. If I drop a gear in command shift, or cause it to kick down in auto then the juddering stops. As I had the auto box fully flushed and all of the fluid replaced about 5k miles ago, I figured it’s likely in need of replacement. Though interestingly I did not have this issue before the flush at all (I did the flush as a matter of routine, not due to any problems). I first noticed it about a month ago. I guess there is a chance the wrong fluid could have been used? Though the garage I use is a long running and well renowned independent LR specialist and I’d be surprised of such a mistake.

Yes by diff I mean PTU. Unsure of the difference between the terms. I thought they were interchangeable.

I’ve changed the front PTU but not the rear. But I have not had PTU fluid changes done ever as I did not know they were required.
Click to expand...

The Haldex jumping / skipping this does seem to be an issue that is confined to the Gen4 Haldex. It seems that there's no physical repair to cure it.
However I've heard good things about the ECU repair / mod, with it actually working (it was done on a forum member's Haldex) to solve the issue. This is a much cheaper than a new Haldex, which itself would likely start skipping again before the vehicle is at the end of life.

It does sound like the TC clutch is shuddering, which is something that does happen to some of these gearboxes at about 100k miles.
Having a replacement TC fitted should solve the problem.

If the PTU was replaced, then presumably it was filled with the correct fluid, so wouldn't need a fluid until 30k miles after installation.
The rear diff also needs fluid changes to remain healthy.
 
Thanks for the advice! Noted.

My mechanic has recommended I do another gearbox flush and put some Dr Tranny in there before replacing the TC (about £360 total cost, including the VAT). I’m skeptical as to whether this is just prolonging the issue or not. Reading on this forum, it seems a way of delaying the inevitable?
 
dee.bee said:
Thanks for the advice! Noted.

My mechanic has recommended I do another gearbox flush and put some Dr Tranny in there before replacing the TC (about £360 total cost, including the VAT). I’m skeptical as to whether this is just prolonging the issue or not. Reading on this forum, it seems a way of delaying the inevitable?
Click to expand...
If you're going to be paying £360 for a box flush and Dr Tranny treatment, you might as well simply put that money towards a replacement TC, which should be about £800 + VAT. Then send the Haldex ECU off for modification, saving a good chunk of change in the process. The Haldex ECU is a reasonably easy DIY job.
 
Before you do anything with the Haldex, check the oil level in the rear differential, if it appears to be 'overfilled', then it's likely the inner pinion seal has failed & the differential oil is mixing with the Haldex oil. The symptoms are very similar but with different causes.
 
Nodge68 said:
If you're going to be paying £360 for a box flush and Dr Tranny treatment, you might as well simply put that money towards a replacement TC, which should be about £800 + VAT. Then send the Haldex ECU off for modification, saving a good chunk of change in the process. The Haldex ECU is a reasonably easy DIY job.
Click to expand...
Interestingly I just spoke to an auto transmission specialist based in the midlands. He advised against a TC replacement because it’s not as simple as that. He agreed it’s TC related but he said that there are a number of other things on this box that can cause those symptoms (valves, seals etc). Things that effectively cause the TC to display these symptoms. He said they have stopped offering TC replacements on their own for this reason, leaving only a full rebuild/recondition of the box which isn’t cost effective. His advice was to sell up.
 
Graculus said:
Before you do anything with the Haldex, check the oil level in the rear differential, if it appears to be 'overfilled', then it's likely the inner pinion seal has failed & the differential oil is mixing with the Haldex oil. The symptoms are very similar but with different causes.
Click to expand...
Good tip. Is this something I can easily check myself?
 
Yep, just remove the differential fill plug, if more than a drip or a thin stream of oil runs out, it's likely the two parts are cross-contaminated and the cause of the Haldex problem.
 
@Nodge68 I have managed to find one gearbox specialist who will take on the job. A new TC is £1700+VAT so they would look to go down the recon route. But even then, combined with the labour their estimate is £1200 to £1500+VAT.

All of the others I have tried either won't take on the job, or recommend I cut my losses.
 
Graculus said:
Before you do anything with the Haldex, check the oil level in the rear differential, if it appears to be 'overfilled', then it's likely the inner pinion seal has failed & the differential oil is mixing with the Haldex oil. The symptoms are very similar but with different causes.
Click to expand...
I can't see how the two fluids can mix, as the seal is a labyrinth seal, with a weep hole in the labyrinth. This means any fluids getting past will simply drip out of the diff casing.
 
Tbh just keep it going, I've already put what I paid for mine into it and more. It's worth it, I know exactly what parts and when they were done were put on it and when they will need looked at etc.
Who is to say if you sell and buy a car that needs alot of work done you will wish you had done it and also make sure you treat the underneath well if you are using it for boat towing and you have to reverse into water.
 
Nodge68 said:
I can't see how the two fluids can mix, as the seal is a labyrinth seal, with a weep hole in the labyrinth. This means any fluids getting past will simply drip out of the diff casing.
Click to expand...
The hole usually get filled with road dirt etc. I've had this on a good few FL2's - certainly into double figures, sometimes it wasn't noticed until the differential oil was being changed, sometimes it was harsh cornering / skipping at the rear that caused an investigation. The viscosity of the diff oil caused 'pre-load' in the Haldex which in turn led to transmission wind-up, causing the skip. I might still have some 'post-mortem' photos...
 
WhiskyLassie said:
Tbh just keep it going, I've already put what I paid for mine into it and more. It's worth it, I know exactly what parts and when they were done were put on it and when they will need looked at etc.
Who is to say if you sell and buy a car that needs alot of work done you will wish you had done it and also make sure you treat the underneath well if you are using it for boat towing and you have to reverse into water.
Click to expand...
This is my gut feel. I’m struggling to find anyone to do the work though. The one place I found who estimated 1200-1500 have shocking reviews online, so that’s put me off.

Anyone recommend a place in the midlands that might do this? All the others I’ve called either won’t work on freelanders or have advised me not to bother 😏
 
dee.bee said:
This is my gut feel. I’m struggling to find anyone to do the work though. The one place I found who estimated 1200-1500 have shocking reviews online, so that’s put me off.

Anyone recommend a place in the midlands that might do this? All the others I’ve called either won’t work on freelanders or have advised me not to bother 😏
Click to expand...
There is a thread of recommendations of where to go I can't remember the name. @blue beasty please help.
 
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