Extra lights

I've just taken possession of a Vitara which has been fitted with a
nudge bar, with some extra lights of some sort fitted to the nudge bar.

For some reason, I'm under the impression that to pass an MOT, any extra
(forward-facing) lights fitted to a vehicle must be operable, and must
only be operable when high-beam is selected - is that correct?

If it is, then I'm not sure that the MOT it came with is actually valid...

You see, these lights aren't operable at all. There's no electrical
connection between these lights and the rest of the vehicle - it seems
as though whatever wires were connected to the lights have been snipped
off, close to the shell.

So... seeing as they're there, I might as well get them working, else I
think I'll have to take them off and be left with two empty brackets on
the nudge bar.

I want to have a switch on the dash, which I guess will need to be
connected to the main beam switch, and then go to a relay which will
control the lights.

I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
offer any tips?

--
Eddie mailto:[email protected]

"Eddie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just taken possession of a Vitara which has been fitted with a
> nudge bar, with some extra lights of some sort fitted to the nudge bar.
>
> For some reason, I'm under the impression that to pass an MOT, any extra
> (forward-facing) lights fitted to a vehicle must be operable, and must
> only be operable when high-beam is selected - is that correct?
>
> If it is, then I'm not sure that the MOT it came with is actually valid...
>
> You see, these lights aren't operable at all. There's no electrical
> connection between these lights and the rest of the vehicle - it seems
> as though whatever wires were connected to the lights have been snipped
> off, close to the shell.
>
> So... seeing as they're there, I might as well get them working, else I
> think I'll have to take them off and be left with two empty brackets on
> the nudge bar.
>
> I want to have a switch on the dash, which I guess will need to be
> connected to the main beam switch, and then go to a relay which will
> control the lights.
>
> I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
> offer any tips?
>
> --
> Eddie mailto:[email protected]
>

A wire from the positive terminal battery to the lights going via a switch
on the dash and a wire from the light to the body as ground will power them,
make sure there's a fuse in the positive wire between the switch and the
battery. this will handle the on/off, next splice a wire into the positive
from the instrument cluster that controls the lights, run this to a
solinoide in the wire from the switch to the lights. this way the extra
lights will only come on when the main lights are on and on high. If desired
you can splice in an extra switch bypassing the solinoide to enable the
lights to be left on when headlights are off or dipped when offroad.

I hope this makes sense, your manual should tell you which current wire
influnces high beam.

rhys

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:56:27 +0000, Eddie <[email protected]> wrote:

->I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
->offer any tips?

They are not part of the MOT.

You'll find the instructions for wiring them up printed on the side of the relay
;-)


--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

Hi Eddie

The method below would work but I do not think it the best way.

This is because the full load to operate the lights would be passed through
the switch which is not good practice and may well cause the switch to melt

I would take a feed from the battery via a fuse to a relay then to the
lights. I would then take a feed from the headlamp main beam feed to the
switch for the extra lights then to the relay.

Take care that this feed is to the terminal on the relay which makes the
relay work. Both the relay and the lights must be earthed.

Wired this way the load for the extra lights is switched by the relay. No
significant load is carried by the switch and no extra load is put on the
main beam wiring.

HTH

Tony
> >
> > I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
> > offer any tips?
> >
> > --
> > Eddie mailto:[email protected]
> >
>
> A wire from the positive terminal battery to the lights going via a switch
> on the dash and a wire from the light to the body as ground will power
them,
> make sure there's a fuse in the positive wire between the switch and the
> battery. this will handle the on/off, next splice a wire into the positive
> from the instrument cluster that controls the lights, run this to a
> solinoide in the wire from the switch to the lights. this way the extra
> lights will only come on when the main lights are on and on high. If
desired
> you can splice in an extra switch bypassing the solinoide to enable the
> lights to be left on when headlights are off or dipped when offroad.
>
> I hope this makes sense, your manual should tell you which current wire
> influnces high beam.
>
> rhys
>
>

"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:56:27 +0000, Eddie <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ->I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
> ->offer any tips?
>
> They are not part of the MOT.\

Sorry they are.

As they are NOT position lamps ( those to show the extremeties of the
vehicle ) then they are included in the requriements of the driving lights
and must go off when main beam is off. This is because you are only allowed
one pair of dipped beam lamps. So by definition all other lamps are main
beam ( I'm excusing fog - which must be marked as such )

Check out http://www.ukmot.com/manual/1-2.htm for the official words on the
subject.

Course you can either try to convince the MOT tester that they are only
position lamps or just bung him a fiver and be done

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:56:53 -0000, "Bad-Boy" <[email protected]>
wrote:

->
->"Geoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
->news:[email protected]...
->> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:56:27 +0000, Eddie <[email protected]> wrote:
->>
->> ->I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
->> ->offer any tips?
->>
->> They are not part of the MOT.\
->
->Sorry they are.

Oh no they're not !

->Check out http://www.ukmot.com/manual/1-2.htm for the official words on the
->subject.

Optional lamps, I quote "Any additional position lamps are optional and are not
included in the inspection."


--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

I fitted driving lights to my Volvo years ago as i lived in Germany and
unlike the UK, autobahns seemed to be much darker at night than UK
motorways..After some trial and error i got them to work as per wiring them
through a relay. I then checked out changing the bulbs. From 55w to
100w...What a difference...Whilst visiting UK, i checked with the police on
the legality of 100w bulbs being used, as the packet from a well known car
spares store said "they were not designed for road use". The police told me
that as long as they operate on main beam only, then they are not restricted
to 55w.

So now my Frontera Long Rang Driving Lights (as the manual calls them) are
fitted with 100w bulbs. They are well useful on dark motorways or country
roads, or even better if some "muppet" is driving in good weather with rear
fogs on..Not even a rear dipping mirror can reduce the dazzle from a
combined output of 310w !!
You've been warned !!
--
All our E-mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus before being sent....
"TMC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Eddie
>
> The method below would work but I do not think it the best way.
>
> This is because the full load to operate the lights would be passed
through
> the switch which is not good practice and may well cause the switch to
melt
>
> I would take a feed from the battery via a fuse to a relay then to the
> lights. I would then take a feed from the headlamp main beam feed to the
> switch for the extra lights then to the relay.
>
> Take care that this feed is to the terminal on the relay which makes the
> relay work. Both the relay and the lights must be earthed.
>
> Wired this way the load for the extra lights is switched by the relay. No
> significant load is carried by the switch and no extra load is put on the
> main beam wiring.
>
> HTH
>
> Tony
> > >
> > > I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care to
> > > offer any tips?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eddie
mailto:[email protected]
> > >
> >
> > A wire from the positive terminal battery to the lights going via a
switch
> > on the dash and a wire from the light to the body as ground will power
> them,
> > make sure there's a fuse in the positive wire between the switch and the
> > battery. this will handle the on/off, next splice a wire into the
positive
> > from the instrument cluster that controls the lights, run this to a
> > solinoide in the wire from the switch to the lights. this way the extra
> > lights will only come on when the main lights are on and on high. If
> desired
> > you can splice in an extra switch bypassing the solinoide to enable the
> > lights to be left on when headlights are off or dipped when offroad.
> >
> > I hope this makes sense, your manual should tell you which current wire
> > influnces high beam.
> >
> > rhys
> >
> >
>
>

"Bad-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c3%[email protected]...
| ( I'm excusing fog - which must be marked as such )
|

Marked how?

Budgie


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.552 / Virus Database: 344 - Release Date: 15/12/2003

perhaps thats why they should be banned with comments like that



"tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I fitted driving lights to my Volvo years ago as i lived in Germany and
> unlike the UK, autobahns seemed to be much darker at night than UK
> motorways..After some trial and error i got them to work as per wiring
them
> through a relay. I then checked out changing the bulbs. From 55w to
> 100w...What a difference...Whilst visiting UK, i checked with the police
on
> the legality of 100w bulbs being used, as the packet from a well known car
> spares store said "they were not designed for road use". The police told
me
> that as long as they operate on main beam only, then they are not
restricted
> to 55w.
>
> So now my Frontera Long Rang Driving Lights (as the manual calls them) are
> fitted with 100w bulbs. They are well useful on dark motorways or country
> roads, or even better if some "muppet" is driving in good weather with
rear
> fogs on..Not even a rear dipping mirror can reduce the dazzle from a
> combined output of 310w !!
> You've been warned !!
> --
> All our E-mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus before being sent....
> "TMC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi Eddie
> >
> > The method below would work but I do not think it the best way.
> >
> > This is because the full load to operate the lights would be passed
> through
> > the switch which is not good practice and may well cause the switch to
> melt
> >
> > I would take a feed from the battery via a fuse to a relay then to the
> > lights. I would then take a feed from the headlamp main beam feed to the
> > switch for the extra lights then to the relay.
> >
> > Take care that this feed is to the terminal on the relay which makes the
> > relay work. Both the relay and the lights must be earthed.
> >
> > Wired this way the load for the extra lights is switched by the relay.
No
> > significant load is carried by the switch and no extra load is put on
the
> > main beam wiring.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Tony
> > > >
> > > > I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before - care
to
> > > > offer any tips?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Eddie
> mailto:[email protected]
> > > >
> > >
> > > A wire from the positive terminal battery to the lights going via a
> switch
> > > on the dash and a wire from the light to the body as ground will power
> > them,
> > > make sure there's a fuse in the positive wire between the switch and
the
> > > battery. this will handle the on/off, next splice a wire into the
> positive
> > > from the instrument cluster that controls the lights, run this to a
> > > solinoide in the wire from the switch to the lights. this way the
extra
> > > lights will only come on when the main lights are on and on high. If
> > desired
> > > you can splice in an extra switch bypassing the solinoide to enable
the
> > > lights to be left on when headlights are off or dipped when offroad.
> > >
> > > I hope this makes sense, your manual should tell you which current
wire
> > > influnces high beam.
> > >
> > > rhys
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> >
> > They are not part of the MOT.\
>
> Sorry they are.
>
Erm......

No there not.

ohhhhhhh I just realised you gotta Frontera so you must have a sense of
humour

clanger

"Clanger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> perhaps thats why they should be banned with comments like that
>
>
>
> "tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I fitted driving lights to my Volvo years ago as i lived in Germany and
> > unlike the UK, autobahns seemed to be much darker at night than UK
> > motorways..After some trial and error i got them to work as per wiring
> them
> > through a relay. I then checked out changing the bulbs. From 55w to
> > 100w...What a difference...Whilst visiting UK, i checked with the police
> on
> > the legality of 100w bulbs being used, as the packet from a well known
car
> > spares store said "they were not designed for road use". The police told
> me
> > that as long as they operate on main beam only, then they are not
> restricted
> > to 55w.
> >
> > So now my Frontera Long Rang Driving Lights (as the manual calls them)
are
> > fitted with 100w bulbs. They are well useful on dark motorways or
country
> > roads, or even better if some "muppet" is driving in good weather with
> rear
> > fogs on..Not even a rear dipping mirror can reduce the dazzle from a
> > combined output of 310w !!
> > You've been warned !!
> > --
> > All our E-mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus before being sent....
> > "TMC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Hi Eddie
> > >
> > > The method below would work but I do not think it the best way.
> > >
> > > This is because the full load to operate the lights would be passed
> > through
> > > the switch which is not good practice and may well cause the switch to
> > melt
> > >
> > > I would take a feed from the battery via a fuse to a relay then to the
> > > lights. I would then take a feed from the headlamp main beam feed to
the
> > > switch for the extra lights then to the relay.
> > >
> > > Take care that this feed is to the terminal on the relay which makes
the
> > > relay work. Both the relay and the lights must be earthed.
> > >
> > > Wired this way the load for the extra lights is switched by the relay.
> No
> > > significant load is carried by the switch and no extra load is put on
> the
> > > main beam wiring.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > >
> > > Tony
> > > > >
> > > > > I assume someone round here's done this sort of thing before -
care
> to
> > > > > offer any tips?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Eddie
> > mailto:[email protected]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > A wire from the positive terminal battery to the lights going via a
> > switch
> > > > on the dash and a wire from the light to the body as ground will
power
> > > them,
> > > > make sure there's a fuse in the positive wire between the switch and
> the
> > > > battery. this will handle the on/off, next splice a wire into the
> > positive
> > > > from the instrument cluster that controls the lights, run this to a
> > > > solinoide in the wire from the switch to the lights. this way the
> extra
> > > > lights will only come on when the main lights are on and on high. If
> > > desired
> > > > you can splice in an extra switch bypassing the solinoide to enable
> the
> > > > lights to be left on when headlights are off or dipped when offroad.
> > > >
> > > > I hope this makes sense, your manual should tell you which current
> wire
> > > > influnces high beam.
> > > >
> > > > rhys
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"SimonJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > They are not part of the MOT.\
> >
> > Sorry they are.
> >
> Erm......
>
> No there not.

OK, the SVA says "position lamps" can be a maximum of 400mm from the outer
edge of the vehicle.
That kind of limits any possible driving lamps as they'd sit in front of the
headlamps on most cars

So the additional driving lamps fall into the requirements for main/dipped
lamps. Coz they're NOT position lamps.

.....

They have to come in pairs ( ooo err missus

On dipped ONLY one pair can show.

So, all driving lamps turn ON with main and off on dipped.

.....

Enough folks have questioned this that I've gone back over the SVA and MOT
Testers manual and I still come to the conclusion above.

Can you please give a definitive reason for the MOT test NOT covering it
which also complies with SVA ? What am I reading wrong.

Peter

In message <[email protected]>, tracy
<[email protected]> writes
>I fitted driving lights to my Volvo years ago as i lived in Germany and
>unlike the UK, autobahns seemed to be much darker at night than UK
>motorways..After some trial and error i got them to work as per wiring them
>through a relay. I then checked out changing the bulbs. From 55w to
>100w...What a difference...Whilst visiting UK, i checked with the police on
>the legality of 100w bulbs being used, as the packet from a well known car
>spares store said "they were not designed for road use". The police told me
>that as long as they operate on main beam only, then they are not restricted
>to 55w.

There is NO legislation in place under the current construction and use
lighting regs as to the power output of road and or off road lights. You
can use watt you like.

--
Graham Jones

In message <c3%[email protected]>, Bad-Boy
<[email protected]> writes

>> They are not part of the MOT.\
>
>Sorry they are.

Sorry but they are not 'if' they are not factory fitted, i.e.. Fitted as
'standard' therefor under the construction and use act must work. Now
then if 'accessories' are fitted then they must also meet the regs 'BUT'
if they are not wired (as in this case) then they are not part of the
MOT.
--
Graham Jones

"Clanger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
ohhhhhhh I just realised you gotta Frontera so you must have a sense of
humour
perhaps thats why they should be banned with comments like that !!


Yes we have a sense of humour, yes we have a Frontera, and yes when the
weather gets real bad our 4x4 will keep going, especially when other
"muppets" can't move. And it gives us more protection against those who
think they can drive their little family runarounds...!!!

Before a ban on more powerful lights, maybe the Police should start fining
people for driving illegally. ie using fog lights when its not foggy!!!!
especially in the rain !!!

Paul

"Bad-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "SimonJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > They are not part of the MOT.\
> > >
> > > Sorry they are.
> > >
> > Erm......
> >
> > No there not.
>
> OK, the SVA says "position lamps" can be a maximum of 400mm from the outer
> edge of the vehicle.
> That kind of limits any possible driving lamps as they'd sit in front of
the
> headlamps on most cars
>
> So the additional driving lamps fall into the requirements for main/dipped
> lamps. Coz they're NOT position lamps.
>
> ....
>
> They have to come in pairs ( ooo err missus
>
> On dipped ONLY one pair can show.
>
> So, all driving lamps turn ON with main and off on dipped.
>
> ....
>
> Enough folks have questioned this that I've gone back over the SVA and MOT
> Testers manual and I still come to the conclusion above.
>
> Can you please give a definitive reason for the MOT test NOT covering it
> which also complies with SVA ? What am I reading wrong.
>
The MOT tests ONLY obligitary lamps, any other lamps are not part of the
test, and are not a reason for rejection.

Fronteras were one of Vauxhalls biggest flops


"tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Clanger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> ohhhhhhh I just realised you gotta Frontera so you must have a sense of
> humour
> perhaps thats why they should be banned with comments like that !!
>
>
> Yes we have a sense of humour, yes we have a Frontera, and yes when the
> weather gets real bad our 4x4 will keep going, especially when other
> "muppets" can't move. And it gives us more protection against those who
> think they can drive their little family runarounds...!!!
>
> Before a ban on more powerful lights, maybe the Police should start fining
> people for driving illegally. ie using fog lights when its not foggy!!!!
> especially in the rain !!!
>
> Paul
>
>

"Fronteras were one of Vauxhalls biggest flops"

Funny quote!!
Our garage has sold 6 in as many weeks, and still have people wanting to buy
them...why???
Because they offer 4x4 ar a far better price than a Landrover/Mitsubishi
etc...we know we have tested them all...and our Fronty has more pulling
power than most 4x4 with a 2.5 turbo diesel engine in it !!!
Read it and weep CAR driver !!!

Paul



--
All our E-mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus before being sent....
"Clanger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fronteras were one of Vauxhalls biggest flops
>
>
> "tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Clanger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > ohhhhhhh I just realised you gotta Frontera so you must have a sense of
> > humour
> > perhaps thats why they should be banned with comments like that !!
> >
> >
> > Yes we have a sense of humour, yes we have a Frontera, and yes when the
> > weather gets real bad our 4x4 will keep going, especially when other
> > "muppets" can't move. And it gives us more protection against those who
> > think they can drive their little family runarounds...!!!
> >
> > Before a ban on more powerful lights, maybe the Police should start
fining
> > people for driving illegally. ie using fog lights when its not foggy!!!!
> > especially in the rain !!!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
>
>

In <[email protected]> Bad-Boy wrote:

> Enough folks have questioned this that I've gone back over the SVA and
> MOT Testers manual and I still come to the conclusion above.
>
> Can you please give a definitive reason for the MOT test NOT covering
> it which also complies with SVA ? What am I reading wrong.
>
> Peter

Without getting too embroiled in the details, remember that the SVA test
is a very different test to the MOT test. Many things that are a fail on
an SVA is a pass on an MOT and vice verca as the two tests are looking
at different things with different objectives.

As an example, fitting a front mounted winch to a vehicle will normally
cause it to fail an SVA whereas it can be taken through an MOT test
without any problem at all.

Off road vehicles that are built from scratch/bits (Foers Ibex for
example) have their SVA test in their most basic form. Once the SVA test
has passed, all the extras such as off road "work" lights, winches,
recovery points, snorkels are then added on.

As for the lamps not being part of an MOT, my understanding is that any
lamp that is only on with high beam has no requirement to be operable
other than the requirement under the basic lighting regs for front
lights. It could be argued that a lamp that is not wired up ( as I
believe is the case on this vehicle ) isn't a lamp but is actually a
reflector or even an ornament and would no more be required to "work"
than a chrome bumper.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

tracy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Our garage has sold 6 in as many weeks, and still have people wanting to buy
> them...why???

Because they are cheap, not because they are good.

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