Engine probs, Possibly???

Hi,
I've had my Rangey 4.6.HSE for a couple of months now and she has run sweet as a nut, then she ran lumpy with a clicking sound and discovered the head gasket had gone between the head and the valley. So I've taken both heads off.
My dilema is this, I've read loads of horror stories about cracked blocks and water pressurising, overheating etc. I've taken my heads off and on one of the cylinders there is a very small amount of rust that is about 1/2 centimetre in length on the edge of the liner, this was, if you look down at the cylinder at about 9 o'clock.The liners all the same height there is no slippage.
When the car was running it would use about a 1/4 of litre of water a day unless I released the expansion bottle cap at the end of the day, then it would not use any water. It does not overheat or blow any water out, the top hose isn't even that hard, it purely loses water over night when left with pressure in the system. there were no visible leaks.
So what do you guys think? Early stages of cracked block?

So, do you think that because the head gaskets were going that putting new one on will stop any seepage?
Or, do I need to get a new engine?
The engine place I use for all my mechanical stuff said that he could replace the liners, this would mean boring out abit and putting bigger liners in, but am i right in thinking that the reason that the Rangey suffers from block problems is because it had been bored to its maximum by badly worn machinery, surley by boring it out more just makes the metal even thinner and more likely to crack?
I've also seen short engines by a company called Castco (or similar) who claim to supply engines that will not suffer this problem, anyone any views or experience?
Sorry lots of questions, i'm sure you guys will have answers,
thanks in advance,
Jase

The failure could be just the head gasket. There may be no cracks or liner problems. Replacing the gaskets and fly-cutting the heads (skimming) to ensure they are totally flat may be all you need.

I suggest a Range Rover specialist should take a look and advise.

I have got my P 38 4.6 hot a couple of times with no adverse effects. I had a 3.9 Classic (Great vehicle) sold it to a coloured chap who totalled it the next day (Shame) should have stayed with the cow and cart. I removed the viscous fan on the P 38 but the electrical fans failed to cut in like my Classic used to, hence i got it hot in London. (Not Chelsea). I then fitted a seperate switch so i could activate the electrical relays to the electrical cooling fans. Hence now no need to run with the big Viscous fan unless towing.

Thanks for reply Stu, heads have gone for pressure test and Skim. I might take a photo of it and post on here, digital camera on the blink at mo though, not having much luck with all things mechanical!
jase

Jase M said:

Thanks for reply Stu, heads have gone for pressure test and Skim. I might take a photo of it and post on here, digital camera on the blink at mo though, not having much luck with all things mechanical!
jase

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If you can see no cracks at the top of the liners then they are probably ok, most liners I have seen are cracked at the top, seems to be the common place to go where all the heat is.

Take it you have checked with a good edge across the liners and the block and they are ok, no low spots.

If it were I, I would fit new gaskets and try it, in your case you were able to identify the fault where it blew. If it blew the flame ring out that would have been different, or no obvious fault worse still.

In relation to the fault with the blocks, from what I read it seems there were a batch of poor manufactured blocks and some are bored out too far resulting in this fault with the liners, if you lpg them the extra heat can kill the bad ones, but I dont think you can identify them by the engine numbers.

Anyway there is threads on this someplace where two guys have gone over these probs in great detail.

I have checked the block and the particular cylinder in question and there is no cracks in the liner and no sign of it having dropped a couple of mil etc.
The flame ring of the head gasket was blown out to the side and was chuffing into the valley.This was on cylinder 1 or as you look at the engine, first on right. The slight bit of rust is on the 3rd cylinder (same bank)
On the other bank, cylinder 2 was just about to blow through but none of the cylinders on this bank have sign of water.
The engine has done 70K with full LR history and the headgaskets were the composite ones not those tin things so I'm supposing it been done before, maybe not properly. I'm still a little concerned I've got a duff block!!
Jase

Jase M said:

I have checked the block and the particular cylinder in question and there is no cracks in the liner and no sign of it having dropped a couple of mil etc.
The flame ring of the head gasket was blown out to the side and was chuffing into the valley.This was on cylinder 1 or as you look at the engine, first on right. The slight bit of rust is on the 3rd cylinder (same bank)
On the other bank, cylinder 2 was just about to blow through but none of the cylinders on this bank have sign of water.
The engine has done 70K with full LR history and the headgaskets were the composite ones not those tin things so I'm supposing it been done before, maybe not properly. I'm still a little concerned I've got a duff block!!
Jase

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No point in sticking an engine in at this stage, if the heads prove ok then build it properly and see how it goes.

Do a check on the service history and see when it had a gasket change.

If you are doing an engine change do the mod on your own, then you will have a new engine, it's only a liner mod and a set of pistons, doubt your shells will need touched at 70k. Paint it up all nice and it will run for years.

sorry dave, I'm confused, are you saying its the liners that crack and just need replacing? Because other threads on here talk about the actual casting being the trouble allowing the liners to move and so, allowing water to get into cylinder?? Is that not right?
Ps, I can still see honing on the liners, not even worn in at 70k, amazing!!!

Jase M said:

sorry dave, I'm confused, are you saying its the liners that crack and just need replacing? Because other threads on here talk about the actual casting being the trouble allowing the liners to move and so, allowing water to get into cylinder?? Is that not right?
Ps, I can still see honing on the liners, not even worn in at 70k, amazing!!!

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I'm afraid thats right, the blocks were too thin and either they cracked or displaced the liners and some at a low mileage as well. Yours has possibly had a gasket done so a check on the service history might give you some idea when and how many times even, thats why I said do that.

You have checked the heads so if thats ruled out plus no obvious cracks around the top of the liner, or block and they have not dropped, then providing the service history comes back ok then build it and see how it goes.

You can convert your block with top-hat liners, so even if it were to crack or was cracked my take on it is that the water cant get up and the liner is stable and cant drop, and I would imagine with the low mileage your pistons would be ok to use again with new rings at the worst.

In your case the flame ring blew out so check with a straight edge that all the liners are the same height, and make sure the rusty patch is not hiding a crack in the other cylinder.

From experience cracks that are terminal are usually between cylinders, and cause the flame ring to fail time after time, cracks in other places are often ok but some can leak into the sump and out the side of the gasket down the block.