EAS... Ideas Please

996TURBO said:

That's not true if you get some emergency inflation valves. I always carry a set in the glove box (MARS kit).

Yes there's a big difference in driving because you're going back to stone age...

More vibes from the diff, more body roll, less comfortable...That's what my customers coming for a conversion back to air complains about.

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yeah i heared for this emergency kits but it doesnt sound like a solution
could i ran EAS just manually? just with this emergency inflation valves, without compresor and this stuf for like every day use? how do you know how much to inflate to get normal ride hight? because i am really thinking to just get ride off this complicated system(ecu,compresor,valves..) with just air bags and manually inflation maybe i am still for the air suspension over coils

nejc003 said:

yeah i heared for this emergency kits but it doesnt sound like a solution
could i ran EAS just manually? just with this emergency inflation valves, without compresor and this stuf for like every day use? how do you know how much to inflate to get normal ride hight? because i am really thinking to just get ride off this complicated system(ecu,compresor,valves..) with just air bags and manually inflation maybe i am still for the air suspension over coils

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Just repair and maintain your EAS. It's a pretty simple system and reliable when done properly.

nejc003 said:

yeah i heared for this emergency kits but it doesnt sound like a solution
could i ran EAS just manually? just with this emergency inflation valves, without compresor and this stuf for like every day use? how do you know how much to inflate to get normal ride hight? because i am really thinking to just get ride off this complicated system(ecu,compresor,valves..) with just air bags and manually inflation maybe i am still for the air suspension over coils

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Of course yes if properly installed (not plastic compression fitting or stuff like that).

I drove my P38 like that during 3 months during electronic lift development and i do have customers in Africa running P38 and LSE like this (no more electronic for those).

The height is pressure related
The pressure in the spring depends on the load so a diesel is different from a petrol for the front. A LPG rangie will be different too but for the back
Look and roll tape will give you perfect pressures...

BTW, did you know that in case you got a EAS fault (1st stage), pulling the EAS relay under LHD seat can avoid full deflation of the airsprings?? Of course it won't clear the fault but will keep you away from the tow truck

I'm with Wammers saying maintain your EAS and you'll be fine but for that peace of mind, carry a set of inflation valves!!

996TURBO said:

Of course yes if properly installed (not plastic compression fitting or stuff like that).

I drove my P38 like that during 3 months during electronic lift development and i do have customers in Africa running P38 and LSE like this (no more electronic for those).

The height is pressure related
The pressure in the spring depends on the load so a diesel is different from a petrol for the front. A LPG rangie will be different too but for the back
Look and roll tape will give you perfect pressures...

BTW, did you know that in case you got a EAS fault (1st stage), pulling the EAS relay under LHD seat can avoid full deflation of the airsprings?? Of course it won't clear the fault but will keep you away from the tow truck

I'm with Wammers saying maintain your EAS and you'll be fine but for that peace of mind, carry a set of inflation valves!!

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yes i do know for the relay under seat i would relly like to have the EAS working properly but my first problem is that i do not know what to repair second, a litle bit afraid what can go wrong in the future..that is why am thinking about coils. Today my friend will lend me his work shop so i have half a day to figure what is problem? any sugestions what to look for (other then melt line(because that was alredy suggested)? thank you all for the help and replies!!

Not entirely true Wammers, No fire and no hot wires just a working compressor and it shut off all the time. I changed the compressor for a new one problem solved. Maybe breaking into the small black lead was what I should have said but how on EARTH do you get a fire from an EARTHED cable anyway. The mind boggles biggles.

P38A4.6 said:

Not entirely true Wammers, No fire and no hot wires just a working compressor and it shut off all the time. I changed the compressor for a new one problem solved. Maybe breaking into the small black lead was what I should have said but how on EARTH do you get a fire from an EARTHED cable anyway. The mind boggles biggles.

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Bypassing the thermal switch by earthing the orange wire can cause a fire.

Let's say you have a leak, compressor overuns and then burns itself...

That thermal switch wasn't put there for no reason...

You won't even be warned by a EAS fault then.

P38A4.6 said:

Not entirely true Wammers, No fire and no hot wires just a working compressor and it shut off all the time. I changed the compressor for a new one problem solved. Maybe breaking into the small black lead was what I should have said but how on EARTH do you get a fire from an EARTHED cable anyway. The mind boggles biggles.

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Yes but you cannot bypass the thermal switch by earthing the black wire. Green wire is supply, black wire is ground and Orange wire is earth link to ECU. Black wire goes direct to earth on inner wing. It is also internally connected to one side of thermo switch, other side of thermo switch is connected to Orange wire that makes a circuit through switch back to ECU. If that circuit is broken either by switch overheating or switch burning out compressor cannot run, because ECU won't switch it. So the wire you need to earth if the thermo switch is burned out is the Orange one NOT the black one. IF you had to earth the black wire to get compressor to run either the earth point was bad or the black wire from pump to plug had a break in it. So you actually bought and paid for a new compressor, when there was nothing wrong with your old one, apart from a two penny broken earth wire.. The mind certainly does boggle.

hi!
I looked all the airlines which can be seen and all looked ok, in the area of central silincer mine are in isolation (is this original?). I measured height at all wheels, take out relay and next morning i saw rear end abaout 1 inch lower than front...i again took measurments and found out that front end didn t move even for milimeter but rear end for about 1inch(2,5cm). now i am realy out of ideas..
sometimes eas led is showing that is on normal ride height and it is not flashing but rangie is about 1inch lower than it should be, sometimes leds are indicating that it is acess mode(even if it is not) and led for normal is flashing(sometimes even for 15 minutes and nothing happens ) sometimes it raises up in like one minute which is much longer than before i had the first problem with eas. If i put it on off road mode sometimes doesnt move at all or again it takes at least 30 secondes or more.. any ideas what to look for? if airlines are good (i am not sure because there are parts that are "hiden") and just rear end moved down is posible i have a leak in valves and if so can this be cause for all my problems?
again thank you for helping me

nejc003 said:

hi!
I looked all the airlines which can be seen and all looked ok, in the area of central silincer mine are in isolation (is this original?). I measured height at all wheels, take out relay and next morning i saw rear end abaout 1 inch lower than front...i again took measurments and found out that front end didn t move even for milimeter but rear end for about 1inch(2,5cm). now i am realy out of ideas..
sometimes eas led is showing that is on normal ride height and it is not flashing but rangie is about 1inch lower than it should be, sometimes leds are indicating that it is acess mode(even if it is not) and led for normal is flashing(sometimes even for 15 minutes and nothing happens ) sometimes it raises up in like one minute which is much longer than before i had the first problem with eas. If i put it on off road mode sometimes doesnt move at all or again it takes at least 30 secondes or more.. any ideas what to look for? if airlines are good (i am not sure because there are parts that are "hiden") and just rear end moved down is posible i have a leak in valves and if so can this be cause for all my problems?
again thank you for helping me

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The problem is the airline always melts in a place that can't be seen. It's between the body and the chassis in the middle. You have a leak because a good P38 should go from standard to offroad mode in 3 seconds. A led flashing during 15 minutes for nothing means there's not any air in the tank...
And if the rear drops that much, there's a leak.
Problem with the leaks is those can be at the valve block or at the airlines.
Do both mate!!

996TURBO said:

The problem is the airline always melts in a place that can't be seen. It's between the body and the chassis in the middle. You have a leak because a good P38 should go from standard to offroad mode in 3 seconds. A led flashing during 15 minutes for nothing means there's not any air in the tank...
And if the rear drops that much, there's a leak.
Problem with the leaks is those can be at the valve block or at the airlines.
Do both mate!!

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Very rarely the valve block.

wow that was fast thanks for advice!
i took out airlines between the body and the chassis in area of silincer and looked them from isoltaion to rear left airbag and like i said they looked ok. maybe i can replace the airlines from rear airbags to valves? any idea how much meters of airline would i need for that? Sorry for asking that questions but i dont have my own garage so i cant just look up... i heard that you can gain presure in tank by leaving door opened when engine is runing? and i think that compresor doesn "t allways turn on when it should (sometimes when led for normal height is flasing compresor doesn"t run sometimes it does). And yes i am familiar with that 3 seconds because before all this problems appeared my eas was working like that(changing ride height took just a few seconds).

wammers said:

Very rarely the valve block.

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yes the valve block o-rings and valve stem seals

996TURBO said:

yes the valve block o-rings and valve stem seals

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Yes but very rarely. And if ever very small. Certainly never enough to out run a compressor.

nejc003, The one inch drop can't easily be diagnosed unless you had disabled the EAS first by either removing the relay that you already know about or leaving a door or the tailgate open. Too many variables. 1st make sure where you park is actually level, 2nd, disable EAS then leave overnight. Now if it has lowered anywhere it will be because of a leak from that airspring, the airline to that airspring or some NRV in the valve-block related to that airspring that is not closing fully (defer here to Wammers on which does what). If you want to isolate the valve block and only test the airlines and airsprings use manual valves to inflate the springs and then close off and leave overnight. Better yet, stick a gauge on and watch for a drop. Do this also for the line to the reservoir (the air dryer is also on this circuit), however in all cases remember to allow for changes in ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure affecting the reading. (ie don't panic if its a very tiny variance, it could be anything and more to the point won't be enough to affect the compressor or the performance of the EAS). If you do find a leak you can go low-tech and use soapy water to identify where it is. Usually one of the connectors, you may need to change o'rings and trim the lines about 5mm. When you are chasing leaks don't forget to check the lines where they go under the battery tray.

**Tony is there an easy way to check the integrity of the valve-block without taking it apart? I was thinking if you find or make a good enough adapter would it be enough to stick a meter in place of the exhaust silencer or what would that miss?

Just re-read your post. The slow rising and flashing lights do indicate on the pneumatic side either a weak compressor or leak to the reservoir. Otherwise its an electronic fault. Again, verify all harness lines and push-connectors (maybe use a continuity tester and definitely consult the circuit diagrams in RAVE). If the physical wires and connectors are ok then you are looking at a possible faulty height sensor, driver pack or ECU. Height sensor faults are common. Driver pack and ECU faults, despite their reputation, are actually rather rare. To check a height sensor, remove it, connect an analogue ohm meter (ie one with a needle and gauge) and slowly, manually move the arm through its range of motion. The needle on the meter should move smoothly as you move the sensor arm. If it jumps around or doesn't move the sensor is worn and needs to be replaced. I don't know how to check driver pack or ECU other than swapping them with known good ones.

It is odds on if you have a leak it is in a bag or a line. Very rarely valve block. The only time there is pressure against each corners solenoid O rings is if bags are being filled. That is because solenoid valves act to inflate and deflate. To get a leak from the valve block that will deflate a corner, that corner valve has to be leaking, together with either the exhaust valve or the solenoid O rings. So it is less likely to have two or three items fail at the same time than to have a line or bag leak. Not impossible but a lot less likely. Even if the tank pressure has leaked over night, it should not take a good compressor more than five minutes or so to re pressure it. If he has to wait 15 minutes for car to rise i would say compressor is weak or diaphragm valve is leaking. I am not saying don't refurb valve block, doing that and knowing it is good cuts out a possibility. Just that it is not the first thing to go for as some would have it. By far the most common problem with EAS not working correctly is lack of air pressure.

hi guys!
I found what was the problem the thermal switch in compresor wasn"t working like it should...compresor did turn on but just for few seconds,
I tested this switch before i posted questions in this thread, then i discovered that testing procedure that i read was not described like it should...so i tested like i was told..peel the orange wire that is wired to compresor, and link on it ground..i did this and nothing hapened. so a month later still figuring out what could be wrong in my case and then i decided to test thermal switch once again (in procedure which was more logical to me) i cut the orange wire and conected ground on orange wire(on orange wire, on that piece wire that goes to the eas ecu) and found out that this is the problem.. now i am so happy because i found what was the problem and is very cheap to replace (the new switch is around 10euros with postage)..i would like to thank you all for your help...because of you now i have litle bit more knowledge about p38 which i hope i wount need it the future but probabley this is like a dream if you are LR owner but hey, this is the best "car"
BR, Nejc

nejc003 said:

hi guys!
I found what was the problem the thermal switch in compresor wasn"t working like it should...compresor did turn on but just for few seconds,
I tested this switch before i posted questions in this thread, then i discovered that testing procedure that i read was not described like it should...so i tested like i was told..peel the orange wire that is wired to compresor, and link on it ground..i did this and nothing hapened. so a month later still figuring out what could be wrong in my case and then i decided to test thermal switch once again (in procedure which was more logical to me) i cut the orange wire and conected ground on orange wire(on orange wire, on that piece wire that goes to the eas ecu) and found out that this is the problem.. now i am so happy because i found what was the problem and is very cheap to replace (the new switch is around 10euros with postage)..i would like to thank you all for your help...because of you now i have litle bit more knowledge about p38 which i hope i wount need it the future but probabley this is like a dream if you are LR owner but hey, this is the best "car"
BR, Nejc

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You did the correct test in the first place. No need to cut wire. All you needed to do was wait for ECU to reset.