Eales vs RPi vs Turner... etc

farmershort · Apr 2, 2015

Ok, I admit it... I'm having a last minute panic about whether or not I'm making the right decisions with my engine.

for sanity's sake, please no-one tell me that I should be rebuilding & modifying the v8 myself... I'd only break it!

so my donor engine (3.9 serp) is currently being shipped to John Eales, ready for a rebuild as a 4.6 putting out about 270bhp.

I just happened to speak with RPi whilst trying to source a bell-housing, and they asked me what engine I was mating it too. They weren't too complimentary about Eales engines for general road use, and seems to think he only did over-cammed trialing engines and the like.

I have of course stressed driveability to John, and the conversion to 270bhp doesn't seem to involve anything too hard-core in terms of parts.

RPi did also tell me in the same breath that a v8 R380 bellhousing is the same as an LT77 bellhousing... which I'm not sure is true tbh.

Anyone got any experience.... or quite frankly just some reassuring words! haha! I've never had an engine built before, and I'm a bit nervous about it!

Thanks

Adam

200tdi ayre · Apr 2, 2015

My engine building is better than RPI

farmershort · Apr 2, 2015

200tdi ayre said:
My engine building is better than RPI

That's great to hear! I know very little about the reputation of these companies really.

martynv8 · Apr 2, 2015

RPI spout alot of BS. They used to insist top hat liners were no cure & only the Coscast blocks were any good. Now that Coscast blocks are no longer available they sell the top hat block....go figure.

farmershort · Apr 2, 2015

martynv8 said:
RPI spout alot of BS. They used to insist top hat liners were no cure & only the Coscast blocks were any good. Now that Coscast blocks are no longer available they sell the top hat block....go figure.

great! this is looking like a theme now so that's handy!

The only company I knew to stay away from was paddock!

cooltide · Apr 2, 2015

John eales has an engineering background and much more experience.
Chris crane fell into rv8 from a scrap / breakers yard background and made plenty from having the nouse to register v8engines . com domain.
Although he has learned much along the way, I don't think it qualifies him to judge his peers.

cooltide · Apr 3, 2015

When deciding on cam and heads, it would be worth discussing torque with your chosen builder. In pursuit of 270bhp you will be increasing valve size which will knock the mid range torque a little (still be more torque than a 3.9) and gain a big shove at higher revs.
Great for a sports car but not in the regions of average defender driving.
Personally for a defender with r380, I'd rather have a wall of torque with horses maxing earlier than revving the nuts off it through every gear to get the best out of it.

listerdiesel · Apr 9, 2015

I've dealt with Turner, they are good.

RPI I would not buy a spark plug from. They try and sell secondhand main bearing caps on ebay, just one example.

Eales I have no knowledge of them, but don't see any negative comments either.

griffman · May 3, 2015

Just some thoughts

LT77 and R380 Bellhousings are NOT the same
The r380 is shorter by an inch

If you put a LT77 bell housing on an r380 gearbox the splines on the input shaft will not slot home into the clutch housing

Therefore you will have no drive

Say no more..........

Eales engines are superb - fully dynamically balanced - and providing you have a moderate cam are perfectly suitable for road use

Dynamically balanced engines rev quicker and return to idle quicker

As a result they are more responsive to throttle input

Just remember the front pulley and flex plate/flywheel/clutch assembly will be in balance with the engine - so if you ever swap these things you will need to have the new items balanced to zero as well.

Turner engines are very good for road use - although they retain the standard flywheel/ flex plate weighting.

But I know one race team which buys engines from them and has them dynamically balanced for racing

V8D balance their engines too - I bought one of their 5.4 phantoms last year and it made 346bhp at 5600rpm and 378lbs torque at 3800 rpm running a 4 barrel edelbrock 600 carb.

The 5.0 Eales engine in my mates 90 makes 295bhp and 329 lbs tq on Hotwire

The 4.6 Turner engine with gas-flowed heads and Kent H180 cam in my disco 1
made 255bhp and 305 lbs tq with an edelbrock 500 carb.

All very good

MayorQuimby · May 8, 2015

Turners, John Eales and V8Developments all very good.. When it comes to engine building, both John and Ray (V8D) know they're oats...

Wouldn't go near RPI if you paid me....

griffman · May 10, 2015

You guys should also know that John Eales designed the small-journal 4.2 Rover V8
It is a complicated story - but it is his design.

davewillb · May 12, 2015

I wouldn't recommend RPI to anyone I'm afraid, it's a shame as they are relatively local.

300bhp/ton · May 13, 2015

MayorQuimby said:
Turners, John Eales and V8Developments all very good.. When it comes to engine building, both John and Ray (V8D) know they're oats...

Wouldn't go near RPI if you paid me....

+1

Never heard a good thing about RPI (internet and from people I know who have dealt with them and got shafted) and on the occasion when I've spoken to them, they certainly didn't bolster any opinion that I'd had them money for anything.

300bhp/ton · May 13, 2015

farmershort said:
Ok, I admit it... I'm having a last minute panic about whether or not I'm making the right decisions with my engine.

for sanity's sake, please no-one tell me that I should be rebuilding & modifying the v8 myself... I'd only break it!

so my donor engine (3.9 serp) is currently being shipped to John Eales, ready for a rebuild as a 4.6 putting out about 270bhp.

I just happened to speak with RPi whilst trying to source a bell-housing, and they asked me what engine I was mating it too. They weren't too complimentary about Eales engines for general road use, and seems to think he only did over-cammed trialing engines and the like.

I have of course stressed driveability to John, and the conversion to 270bhp doesn't seem to involve anything too hard-core in terms of parts.

RPi did also tell me in the same breath that a v8 R380 bellhousing is the same as an LT77 bellhousing... which I'm not sure is true tbh.

Anyone got any experience.... or quite frankly just some reassuring words! haha! I've never had an engine built before, and I'm a bit nervous about it!

Thanks

Adam

The only thing I'd say is. If you are not building it for ALRC use or some sort of concors event. Then have you looked at pricing up a Chevy LS1 swap?

You can buy adapters to mate to manual or auto transmissions. The LS1 is all aluminium and of similar weight & size to a Rover V8.

They all produce about 320bhp min in 100% stock emissions trim (i.e. with cats, log exhaust manifolds, restrictive exhaust and intake). And at least 350hp with just a good exhaust/intake setup. They also make 95% of their PEAK torque at under 1500rpm. And to top it all, they are quite a bit better on fuel than the RV8 too.

I love RV8's and have owned (still own one) a few. But spanking money on them to get to make power is just counter intuitive.

griffman · May 16, 2015

300bhp/ton said:
The only thing I'd say is. If you are not building it for ALRC use or some sort of concors event. Then have you looked at pricing up a Chevy LS1 swap?

You can buy adapters to mate to manual or auto transmissions. The LS1 is all aluminium and of similar weight & size to a Rover V8.

They all produce about 320bhp min in 100% stock emissions trim (i.e. with cats, log exhaust manifolds, restrictive exhaust and intake). And at least 350hp with just a good exhaust/intake setup. They also make 95% of their PEAK torque at under 1500rpm. And to top it all, they are quite a bit better on fuel than the RV8 too.

I love RV8's and have owned (still own one) a few. But spanking money on them to get to make power is just counter intuitive.

You make it sound like it is just a straight swap.
The LS is a good engine - but fitting it so it looks factory and performs well takes a lot of money
Exhaust will be at least a couple of grand
Omex ECU and install the same - the MEFI 4 that comes with the crate motors is crap - if you go for a carb the ignition kit plus intake and carb is 1500.
Gearbox will need to be up-rated or a chevy one fitted - in which case you will need a compushift if you go for a 4L80E
Adapters and mounts - plus chassis adaptation if your car is not a factory V8
Whichever way this is done - and we have done a few now - depending on which engine/gearbox combo it is around the 12-14k mark

300bhp/ton · May 16, 2015

Reckon you can do it a lot cheaper if you wanted. Sure you could spend that, but you don't need too.

MayorQuimby · May 16, 2015

300bhp/ton said:
reckon you can do it a lot cheaper if you wanted. Sure you could spend that, but you don't need too.

+1

farmershort · May 17, 2015

All academic at this point chaps... John has had the donor engine for a few weeks now.

zen · May 26, 2015

fine choice!!

farmershort · May 26, 2015

Spoke with him on Friday last week. Engine is now fully built! He's got it on the testing bed now, so just waiting for confirmation!

Eales vs RPi vs Turner... etc

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