Discovery 5 DTC on camshaft sensor - timing chain replacement?

Hi, I'd choose MDRS if i was you with the addentum to ask them to check the DPF as Romjin's assumption seems the most logical while that Bullevard's "injectors will damage engine if degraded" seems a bit b0ll0x to me just be awaare that i'm not an expert. Good luck what ever you decide

I reckon any small high-speed common rail diesel needs its injectors changing at about 100,000 miles.
as you are going all in I would expect new injectors and a new turbo, mainly for peace of mind.
whoever has the best guarantee would get my vote.

Thanks for the replies. I've also consulted ChatGPT and this is the link to its response (scroll to the bottom), also pasted here:

It’s understandable that you're confused by the differing opinions from garages and forum members about the turbo, injectors, and diesel particulate filter (DPF) on your Land Rover. Here's a breakdown of these components and potential issues based on common automotive knowledge:

1. Turbocharger​

• High Mileage Wear: Turbochargers are subjected to extreme heat and pressure, so over time, they can wear out, especially with low oil levels or the wrong oil type. Oil is crucial for lubricating and cooling the turbo’s bearings. If incorrect oil was used or the engine ran low on oil, this could accelerate turbo wear. At 127,000 km, replacing the turbo is a precaution some mechanics might take, especially given the oil-related issues in your case.
• Testing First: Since the turbo hasn’t outright failed yet, testing for boost pressure and signs of excessive oil in the turbo housing is a reasonable approach. Replacing it based solely on mileage isn't always necessary unless there are signs of wear or oil issues.

2. Injectors​

• Can Degraded Injectors Damage the Engine? Yes, injectors can cause engine damage if they aren’t functioning correctly. Worn or clogged injectors can lead to improper fuel delivery, which could cause engine misfires, inefficient combustion, or excess fuel entering the exhaust system. This can create additional strain on components like the catalytic converter or DPF, and in extreme cases, damage pistons or valves.
• Mileage and Injector Life: Diesel injectors generally last a long time, but around 100,000-150,000 km is when they might start wearing down. That said, there’s no set rule for automatic replacement at a particular mileage. Many injectors can last much longer if fuel quality has been good and they haven’t been under excessive stress.
• Testing: It makes sense to test the injectors' spray pattern and flow rates. If they’re functioning well, replacing them preemptively might not be necessary.

3. Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)​

• Excessive Oil Consumption: Oil consumption can affect the DPF, as oil particles can clog it if they pass through the exhaust system. This might lead to excessive soot buildup, requiring cleaning or replacement.
• DPF Maintenance: At 127,000 km, a DPF may need cleaning, but replacing it depends on its current condition. If it has been subjected to frequent short trips, clogged regenerations, or excess oil/smoke, it could be degraded. However, if the vehicle has been driven at highway speeds and the DPF has had a chance to regenerate properly, it may still be in good condition.

Differing Opinions: What's Going On?​

The mechanics are focusing on different aspects:

• MDRS Automotive emphasizes turbo replacement due to mileage but doesn’t expect issues with injectors or DPF.
• Bullevard suggests replacing injectors, as degraded injectors could damage the engine, but says they will test the turbo and DPF.
• Romijn Den Haag suggests turbo replacement due to oil issues and attention to the DPF due to excessive oil consumption, but no injector replacement.

The different opinions likely come from each mechanic emphasizing what they think is most at risk based on their expertise and the known oil problem.

General Advice​

1. Turbo: Given the oil issues and mileage, replacing the turbo may be worth considering, but testing it first is a smart move.
2. Injectors: If they’re not showing signs of degradation or poor spray patterns, replacing them preemptively may not be necessary, but testing them would be wise. If they are degrading, they could cause engine problems.
3. DPF: Due to the oil consumption, cleaning or replacing the DPF might be necessary. Testing the DPF's soot levels and regeneration ability should be done before deciding.

Conclusion:​

Testing components (turbo, injectors, DPF) before replacing is the most balanced approach. Only replace parts that show signs of wear or malfunction.

Given your vehicle’s mileage and the oil issues, replacing the turbo might be wise, but injectors and DPF should be addressed based on actual condition, not solely on mileage.

This approach allows you to avoid unnecessary expenses while still addressing potential risks due to oil and wear issues.

Click to expand...

In summary, ChatGPT's opinion is that I should probably replace the turbo, but have all components (turbo, injectors, DPF) tested before replacing.

I'll call MDRS and Bullevard about this tomorrow, but I'm concerned that Bullevard might be a bit resistant based on the price offer they made.

Bullevard originally quoted me €15k for a new engine and €1600 additional to replace the injectors (if required). When I presented MDRS's more favourable quote, they changed the quote to €15k including injectors.

However, I spoke to Bullevard again yesterday, and they said that they always charge €15k for an engine and injectors because they cannot provide a warranty without the injectors being replaced, and for customers that insist, they will replace only the engine for €13.5k without a warranty.

So, I'm not sure if he tried to pull a fast one initially - he said he misquoted.

In any case, I would prefer to use Bullevard ideally if only because they're local to where I live and this would make it much easier in the event of any snags or warranty issues. But I would really like to get to the bottom of how a new engine would not have a warranty if the injectors are not replaced. I'm pretty sure that they would have to prove that the old injectors damaged the new engine. I did ask if the injectors can be tested. He said they can, but the test will only confirm that they are good at that moment. It would not confirm that they would be about to fail, and this is why he insists on new injectors for the purpose of the warranty, even if the old injectors are successfully tested.

It all feels a bit dubious or vague to me, but I'm in the unfortunate position of not being an expert or having access to anyone who seems to have a definitive answer.

Plenty of modern diesels are destroyed by fuelling issues. I have a good mate who's an engine reconditioner and my brother-in-law owns a diesel shop (injection and turbos).

Both have many stories about fuelling issues and major problems. One guy had to rebuild his Nissan engine TWICE, after not fixing the overfueling that caused the first fault, so the rebuild only lasted about 20,000 miles. Once the engine was done, the Maf replaced with a non-faulty one and the injectors all tested/replaced; it's been fine since... but cost the guy a fortune.

Old mechanical diesels need adjusments and injector servicing to run properly. Modern diesels, require more testing and replacement, as many injectors aren't as serviceable as the old ones.

I've decided to go with Bullevard for €15k including injectors. It's more or less comparable to MDRS given the transport costs that would be involved with going to MDRS, and I'd prefer to keep it local to where I live (at least in the same country!). This will also likely make it easier when suing the seller which I am now in active contact with a lawyer about who is going to send them an initial formal letter (I've already drafted the subpoena ready for serving by bailiffs at a later stage).

One question. Should I get to keep my existing engine when I get it replaced? And can I sell it to recoup some costs? It may even be the case that I need to keep it in case the seller of my car requires to have it inspected for the later legal proceedings.

Depends on the agreement. In the uk they normally exchange the engine. You get a discount if giving back the same type engine to the supplier, if it can be fixed.

I'm now in a legal process with the seller. I've informed them that 3 litres of oil had to be topped up 9 months (by Romijn) after purchasing the vehicle (they confirmed the oil level was good at that point) to demonstrate that it was consuming excessive oil. They have responded claiming that it is normal to consume half a litre per 1000 km. I find this ridiculous, because that means it will use all the oil in less than 12,000 km given that the capacity is 5.9 litres, especially as the service interval is 34,000 km.

However, I want to confirm that the oil was not below the minimum marker when it was topped up with 3 litres. Assuming the maximum marker represents 5.9 litres, and that it was topped up to this point by Romijn, what level in litres does the minimum marker represent?