Disco 2 Do you need extended shocks for a 0.8 inch lift at the front? Air suspension in the back (SLS)

Normally everything is a 2 inch lift, I'm working with something less here

My car currently:
- D2 V2 4.0L with SLS and ACE
- Standard height, no bullbar, factory rear bumper
- All factory shocks, factory front coils, and OEM rear air suspension, factory bump stops

A friend gave me some low-mileage front springs (Dobinsons C51-032) which say they've got a 20mm lift, and in the tech specs it says "0-2 inch lift height" whatever that means...

I want to buy:
- new shocks front and rear
- new rear airbags
- new bump stops front and rear

Do I need to buy all of those standard height, or for a 2-inch lift?

Do I need to buy spacers for standard airbags, or 2-inch lift airbags? Or just get a friend with a Nanocom to lift the back?

Shocks: considering fancy Bilstein (standard height only), or cheaper Britpart ones (sub-brands are Cellular Dynamic or Super Gaz) at either standard height or 2" lift.

You don't need to buy anything for 20mm extra height. Then again I don't understand why you would bother doing anything for such a small increase in height in the 1st place.

biketeacherdave said:

You don't need to buy anything for 20mm extra height. Then again I don't understand why you would bother doing anything for such a small increase in height in the 1st place.

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I understand

My bad, to clarify:
- I got the 20mm springs for free.
- And I want to buy new suspension in general.

Why? Rear airbags are old, had both drop a few times and then come back later. And the shocks are horrible going over speed bumps, feel it bottoming out.

So just thinking to adapt around those free springs I got and buy shocks/airbags/bump stops to suit.

Well that now makes more sense.
Just buy standard avoid ****part

biketeacherdave said:

Just buy standard avoid ****part

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Thanks mate, yeah I've heard this before, also with Terrafirma.

What would you do in the back for the airbags? Spacers, or standard airbags, or 2-inch lift bags?

Ride height sensors need 2cm brackets for extending?

And I don't want to risk damaging shocks/coils/bags when articulating etc.
- Should I buy slightly bigger bump stops?

MAF Diver said:

Normally everything is a 2 inch lift, I'm working with something less here

My car currently:
- D2 V2 4.0L with SLS and ACE
- Standard height, no bullbar, factory rear bumper
- All factory shocks, factory front coils, and OEM rear air suspension, factory bump stops

A friend gave me some low-mileage front springs (Dobinsons C51-032) which say they've got a 20mm lift, and in the tech specs it says "0-2 inch lift height" whatever that means...

I want to buy:
- new shocks front and rear
- new rear airbags
- new bump stops front and rear

Do I need to buy all of those standard height, or for a 2-inch lift?

Do I need to buy spacers for standard airbags, or 2-inch lift airbags? Or just get a friend with a Nanocom to lift the back?

Shocks: considering fancy Bilstein (standard height only), or cheaper Britpart ones (sub-brands are Cellular Dynamic or Super Gaz) at either standard height or 2" lift.

Click to expand...

What do you want to achieve with the vehicle?

Rarely does anything “need” something. But there are many many ways to lift a vehicle. Some will improve how they drive off road. Others will reduce off road capability.

Basic suspension operation is not all that complex. And having an understanding in what is happening will help allow you to make the right decision for you given application. Which all goes back to what are you trying to accomplish?

biketeacherdave said:

Well that now makes more sense.
Just buy standard avoid ****part

Click to expand...

Nonsense on both accounts tbh. Ffs

MAF Diver said:

Thanks mate, yeah I've heard this before, also with Terrafirma.

What would you do in the back for the airbags? Spacers, or standard airbags, or 2-inch lift bags?

Ride height sensors need 2cm brackets for extending?

And I don't want to risk damaging shocks/coils/bags when articulating etc.
- Should I buy slightly bigger bump stops?

Click to expand...

As per my other post. You’d do yourself huge favours in going off and reading up on how the suspension works.

There are so many badly modified D2’s it’s unreal. They just seem to attract people who want to make them awful on road and terrible off road. The basic suspension is of sound design and you can modify for good results. But poorly selected suspension mods result in bumpy on road ride and less suspension flex off road.

300bhp/ton said:

What do you want to achieve with the vehicle?

Rarely does anything “need” something. But there are many many ways to lift a vehicle. Some will improve how they drive off road. Others will reduce off road capability.

Basic suspension operation is not all that complex. And having an understanding in what is happening will help allow you to make the right decision for you given application. Which all goes back to what are you trying to accomplish?

Click to expand...

Yep good question thanks mate.

I want to replace the sagged front springs (got relatively new ones for free, but have 20mm lift), and also replace the old shocks in the front and rear. And keep the rear airbags.

What’s the vehicle used for:
- city and highway driving
- long trips, future to other states in Australia, maybe eventually do a lap
- corrugated roads, dirt roads, fire trails

Not building for doing 4x4 trails and so on

Want to make it comfortable (current OEM shocks and springs feel too soft: even speed bumps handle crap) but also keep its off-road capabilities for when needed. Maybe the 2cm lift gives a little boost?

Also the small lift makes it look a bit cooler won’t lie

And keen to save money where possible (like using the coils I got for free, and considering Britpart Super Gaz or Cellular Dynamics instead of better Bilsteins)

300bhp/ton said:

As per my other post. You’d do yourself huge favours in going off and reading up on how the suspension works.

There are so many badly modified D2’s it’s unreal. They just seem to attract people who want to make them awful on road and terrible off road. The basic suspension is of sound design and you can modify for good results. But poorly selected suspension mods result in bumpy on road ride and less suspension flex off road.

Click to expand...

Copy! What recommended reading do you have for this? Keen to read and learn.

Edit: I just read the sections on dampeners and air suspension in the 2003 Workshop Manual but am not much wiser from it. All I learnt is that the manual calls the factory shocks "long travel".

MAF Diver said:

Yep good question thanks mate.

I want to replace the sagged front springs (got relatively new ones for free, but have 20mm lift), and also replace the old shocks in the front and rear. And keep the rear airbags.

What’s the vehicle used for:
- city and highway driving
- long trips, future to other states in Australia, maybe eventually do a lap
- corrugated roads, dirt roads, fire trails

Not building for doing 4x4 trails and so on

Want to make it comfortable (current OEM shocks and springs feel too soft: even speed bumps handle crap) but also keep its off-road capabilities for when needed. Maybe the 2cm lift gives a little boost?

Also the small lift makes it look a bit cooler won’t lie

And keen to save money where possible (like using the coils I got for free, and considering Britpart Super Gaz or Cellular Dynamics instead of better Bilsteins)



Copy! What recommended reading do you have for this? Keen to read and learn

Click to expand...

Standard shouldn’t really be all that soft. Do you have ACE? A D2 with ACE should make for a very flat ride and one of the best road handling live axle 4x4s ever produced.

Standard suspension is also usually a good mix of all use. Although improved damping is often available with better shocks.

As for lifting. You need to consider at road height you will have x inches of suspension droop and y inches of compression available. Ie it can move up and down. When you lift you will use some of the available suspension droop as you will extend the shocks by the amount of the lift. This means when off road you will have less suspension droop available and more likely to run out of travel and lift a wheel. Longer shocks can be used to offset this and give you the same or more droop than standard. If you don’t off road this won’t be an issue. But can massively impact how easily a vehicle can be stopped on an obstacle.

The rear air springs will work in the same way, but you also have the limit of the air spring length (droop and compression) as well as the shock. You do with coil springs too. But a short spring will dislocate. You could damage an air spring with the wrong setup as they are retained top and bottom.

Simply adding air will lift the back of the vehicle. But this is again using part of the available travel and with an air spring will make the spring stiffer, eg increased spring rate. Which may not be good. For towing or hauling you add air to maintain a level vehicle. In this instance the increased spring rate works due to more load/weight on it.

Personally I’d opt for some better shocks. Either has mono tubes or two tube shocks. I personally get on well with the Britpart Celluar Dynamic shocks. They will work even better when loaded up and the twin tube design should help dissipate heat build up on rough terrain. But there are a lot of shock choices out there.

As for springs. Front coils are pretty cheap. Use the free ones but in the grand scheme getting some others won’t really be a major expense. Many lift springs are simply stiffer. These can work, but too stiff and they ride badly. In many ways simply adding some lift packers/spacers is not a bad way with the stock springs. As it’ll retain the stock ride and handling but with a lift. And improved dampers should give better control and damping.

At the rear. I’m not sure is available. A spacer will work the same as it does on the front coil spring. And allow the air spring to run at the normal pressure but with a lift. A standard shock May limit travel. So you wouldn’t need to do anything with brake lines or ABS sensors.

If you want to retain or increase suspension travel then longer shocks will be needed. But also longer brake lines and messing with the ABS sensors.

Lots of people lift vehicles including the D2. Lifts can cause prop vibrations and even increased likelihood of failure. Depends how high you lift. You can also introduce unfavourable caster angles.

Thanks for the detailed reply! I've still got a few questions below (numbered). Edit: I also just read your post about lifting the D2. Really insightful too!

300bhp/ton said:

Standard shouldn’t really be all that soft. Do you have ACE? A D2 with ACE should make for a very flat ride and one of the best road handling live axle 4x4s ever produced.

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Yep, I've got ACE. It's great!

300bhp/ton said:

Standard suspension is also usually a good mix of all use. Although improved damping is often available with better shocks.

Click to expand...

Mine are quite old, could be factory even, but only has 120,000km and hasn't been off-roaded.

300bhp/ton said:

As for lifting. You need to consider at road height you will have x inches of suspension droop and y inches of compression available. Ie it can move up and down. When you lift you will use some of the available suspension droop as you will extend the shocks by the amount of the lift. This means when off road you will have less suspension droop available and more likely to run out of travel and lift a wheel.

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(1) Would a 20mm be noticeable here?

300bhp/ton said:

Longer shocks can be used to offset this and give you the same or more droop than standard. If you don’t off road this won’t be an issue. But can massively impact how easily a vehicle can be stopped on an obstacle.

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Yep, understood. Longer shocks are usually for a 2-inch lift, and mine would be sub-one inch. Tricky to find shocks to suit!

300bhp/ton said:

The rear air springs will work in the same way, but you also have the limit of the air spring length (droop and compression) as well as the shock. You do with coil springs too. But a short spring will dislocate. You could damage an air spring with the wrong setup as they are retained top and bottom.

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That's my worry and fear: ripping the bag!

(3) How can I prevent that?

300bhp/ton said:

Simply adding air will lift the back of the vehicle. But this is again using part of the available travel and with an air spring will make the spring stiffer, eg increased spring rate. Which may not be good.

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(4) Not good comfort you mean?

300bhp/ton said:

For towing or hauling you add air to maintain a level vehicle. In this instance the increased spring rate works due to more load/weight on it.

Personally I’d opt for some better shocks. Either has mono tubes or two tube shocks. I personally get on well with the Britpart Celluar Dynamic shocks. They will work even better when loaded up and the twin tube design should help dissipate heat build up on rough terrain. But there are a lot of shock choices out there.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I've been eyeing the Cellular Dynamic shocks (standard height).

(5) Do you think they'd work well in hot Australian summers and long corrugated roads in the outback?

300bhp/ton said:

As for springs. Front coils are pretty cheap. Use the free ones but in the grand scheme getting some others won’t really be a major expense. Many lift springs are simply stiffer. These can work, but too stiff and they ride badly.

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I think you're right. My springs have a 10mm difference in open length the OEM ones when new (purple-purple and grey-purple on the front).

(6) So the additional 10mm lift must come from being slightly stiffer?

300bhp/ton said:

At the rear. I’m not sure is available. A spacer will work the same as it does on the front coil spring. And allow the air spring to run at the normal pressure but with a lift. A standard shock May limit travel.

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Yeah, I'm not having luck finding 20mm spacers for the airbags in the back.

300bhp/ton said:

Lifts can cause prop vibrations and even increased likelihood of failure. Depends how high you lift. You can also introduce unfavourable caster angles.

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(7) Would +20mm increase the risk of prop failure?

Update:

I fitted the new (20mm lift coils) and new standard height Terrafirma shocks in the front and back (as well as new airbags in the back).

Two issues:
1. The front is now higher than the back, visibly.
2. It rides really stiff on all bumpy roads and small potholes or undulations.

TF shocks were a mistake? Or should I have gone for the 2-inch lift ones?

I dont know how the disco works, But.
If you have air bags on the back (like the P38) and have now got +20mm on the front then I am not surprised the front is higher.
You need to change height settings to level it out the bags will take it (I think).

It may be stiffer than you are used to cos its all new, it maybe stiffer cos the spring rate is different, difficult to say as you don't say what springs you fitted or the rating of them.

As for the dampeners I have no idea but some say TF aren't the best these days.

J

marjon said:

It may be stiffer than you are used to cos its all new, it maybe stiffer cos the spring rate is different, difficult to say as you don't say what springs you fitted or the rating of them.

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Thanks mate!

I fitted these ones: https://www.superiorengineering.com...t-rear-no-load-land-rover-discovery-1-2-10165