Diso1 Diff lock how it works

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hi_arshard

Member
Posts
56
Hello guys,

Could you please give your feedback on the below, I doubt my diff lock is not working as expected,

Got stuck in the sand and wheels spinning without traction (desert sand) diff lock on H-lock Dash lights come on as well.

Spinning wheels with no traction,
Rear left wheel and front Right wheel spinning has no traction.

Stuck wheel with no movement,
Front left wheel and rear right wheels are stuck not moving at well.

Tried with Low -lock as well no luck.

At this point I expect the stuck wheels to gain power so the car will get out.

As per the theory, when the diff is in lock position front / rear axles will have 50/50 power distribution equally and all wheels should be spinning but in my case only one wheel was spinning in each axle and that is the wheels which without traction which is useless.

Refer to the attached picture. sorry couldn’t take much pictures only left side I have.

Thanks 🙏 and much appreciated
Arshad
 

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Your centre diff-lock will indeed send 50/50 power to both the front and rear alxe

When all this power get's to each axle the axle doesn't have a diff lock so it put's it all to the wheel with the least amount of traction
That's on the D1
On the D2 onwards they got clever by taking the pesky wheel on each axle that is spinning and apply the brakes to that wheel only until the other side wheel has less "traction" when compared to the one that is now being braked and that one will start spinning
 
D1Nut said:
Your centre diff-lock will indeed send 50/50 power to both the front and rear alxe

When all this power get's to each axle the axle doesn't have a diff lock so it put's it all to the wheel with the least amount of traction
That's on the D1
On the D2 onwards they got clever by taking the pesky wheel on each axle that is spinning and apply the brakes to that wheel only until the other side wheel has less "traction" when compared to the one that is now being braked and that one will start spinning
Click to expand...
Is it normal that the stuck wheel will not get power and the wheel which is on air keep spinning?

Same behavior for front and rear axle. If this is the case in D1, what is the solution to get the truck back on track ?
 
marjon said:
You are correct it is working as expected.
You can get stuck with 1 wheel spinning without diff lock, and 1 spinning wheel on each axle with diff lock, In a standard car with open/normal axle diffs.

J
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.

Any modifications/ upgrades can be done to get the power on both wheels in each axle at the same time?

thanks,
🙏
 
hi_arshard said:
Air-Locker or E-Locker does the job ? Tried to find the internet couldn’t find much infor ?
Click to expand...
Air or E are the same but different control. I believe.
Air needs a compressor, E needs electric.
LSD/ATB control themselves with no driver input I.E flipping a switch, but may not be as good as a "hard" locking diff in some cases.

Have a look at the this for info https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/

J
 
hi_arshard said:
So you mean this is how it works on D1 and live with it…! ?
Click to expand...

Yep same with my defender, and my P38, and my L322. Although different control of the center diff and traction control on the P38/L322.

But without locking the axles/wheels through 1 means or another this is what happens.

Pays your money, takes ya choice ;).

J
 
marjon said:
Yep same with my defender, and my P38, and my L322. Although different control of the center diff and traction control on the P38/L322.

But without locking the axles/wheels through 1 means or another this is what happens.

Pays your money, takes ya choice ;).

J
Click to expand...
P38 has no centre locking diff, it is a viscous unit, so never fully locks. Most p38's have either 2 wheel or 4 wheel traction control, so they should behave quite differently, as will an L322.
 
hi_arshard said:
At this point I expect the stuck wheels to gain power so the car will get out.
Click to expand...
This is an incorrect assumption. Lots of info online on how diffs work, probably worth your time searching and understanding how they function. Lots of practical examples on YouTube too.

However the centre diff allows full time 4wd, so when traction is equal you will get power to all 4 wheels, but will still allow the front and rear wheels to rotate at different speeds when cornering on tarmac. This is great, because it generally gives Land Rovers loads of traction and good stability without spinning a rear wheel on the road, you can also drive in an out of muddy fields or on snow and even sandy tracks without needing to do anything.

Once you get onto really slippery surfaces or start flexing the suspension you will want to lock the centre diff. This locks the front and rear propshafts (axles...) together and would be the same as say switching a classic Jeep or Toyota from 2wd to 4wd. With the diff locked the front and rear wheels rotate at the same speed, so you shouldn't drive on dry tarmac like this, as you will wind up the transmission and potentially break it.

Off road with the centre diff lock open you can effectively end up in 1wd, i.e. only one wheel will spin if all others have traction. With the diff locked you will always have 2wd, i.e. ability to spin to wheels. But open axle diffs mean you can end up cross axled (most common) where diagonally opposite wheels (drive front/passenger rear) will spin. Although two wheels per side can also spin if say you are parked on a muddy verge with two wheels on tarmac.

This is completely standard for any 4wd/4x4 that doesn't have some kind of traction aid (LSd, lockers or traction control).

For sand use I'd suspect some ATB limited slip diffs such as those sold by Ashcroft transmissions would be the best bet or maybe an ATB in the front and a full locker in the rear.
 
300bhp/ton said:
P38 has no centre locking diff, it is a viscous unit, so never fully locks. Most p38's have either 2 wheel or 4 wheel traction control, so they should behave quite differently, as will an L322.
Click to expand...
Your point is?

The P38 has a viscous center which will lock up, along with the traction control it works ok.
The L322 also has a LSD center diff (it’s not that simple actually) along with traction control.

I have to lock my 90s center diff with a lever, so much effort. but it is effectively not as good as the P38 or the L322.
All with open axle diffs.
J
 
Last edited:
300bhp/ton said:
This is an incorrect assumption. Lots of info online on how diffs work, probably worth your time searching and understanding how they function. Lots of practical examples on YouTube too.

However the centre diff allows full time 4wd, so when traction is equal you will get power to all 4 wheels, but will still allow the front and rear wheels to rotate at different speeds when cornering on tarmac. This is great, because it generally gives Land Rovers loads of traction and good stability without spinning a rear wheel on the road, you can also drive in an out of muddy fields or on snow and even sandy tracks without needing to do anything.

Once you get onto really slippery surfaces or start flexing the suspension you will want to lock the centre diff. This locks the front and rear propshafts (axles...) together and would be the same as say switching a classic Jeep or Toyota from 2wd to 4wd. With the diff locked the front and rear wheels rotate at the same speed, so you shouldn't drive on dry tarmac like this, as you will wind up the transmission and potentially break it.

Off road with the centre diff lock open you can effectively end up in 1wd, i.e. only one wheel will spin if all others have traction. With the diff locked you will always have 2wd, i.e. ability to spin to wheels. But open axle diffs mean you can end up cross axled (most common) where diagonally opposite wheels (drive front/passenger rear) will spin. Although two wheels per side can also spin if say you are parked on a muddy verge with two wheels on tarmac.

This is completely standard for any 4wd/4x4 that doesn't have some kind of traction aid (LSd, lockers or traction control).

For sand use I'd suspect some ATB limited slip diffs such as those sold by Ashcroft transmissions would be the best bet or maybe an ATB in the front and a full locker in the rear.
Click to expand...
Great 👍 Thank you… this is a perfect explanation… now it’s clear. I should be looking for a ATB LSD.
 
Keith_L said:
Which type would you recommend as best for those occasions when you are dealing with slippery mud?
Click to expand...
Personally I think ATB's take a lot of beating on UK terrain, where they aren't so good is if you have a wheel in the air, although left foot braking will help. So if you do Moab style rock crawling, full lockers can be a good option. As they will turn all 4 wheels equally and require no slip at all. An LSD, be it the Torsen ATB design or other will only, as per the name limit the slip.

The biggest downside with full locker is you need to manually activate them and you can't really run about with them fully locked all the time. And when in use you massively increase your turning circle, which can be a major negative on tight lanes and anywhere when you need to steer. They are also more complex with air compressors or electric solenoids, meaning potentially more to go wrong. You also need to know when you can and can't use them.

ATBs, so long as the wheels are on the ground will just "work". Without any extra input from the driver and you get the benefits of them all the time everywhere. They also don't impact your turning radius either.

That said, if you are on terrain where you might lift wheels often, something like a Detroit Locker (technically it is an automated unlocker) might work well in the rear axle. But they can be noisy in operation and some don't like them on the road. I've not really had much experience with them, but they offer the benefit of being fully locked, but can automatically unlock without any driver intervention to allow cornering. I suspect in reality they probably don't drive as nicely as an ATB, but under certain circumstances could offer more traction.
 
marjon said:
Your point is?

The P38 has a viscous center which will lock up, along with the traction control it works ok.
The L322 also has a LSD center diff (it’s not that simple actually) along with traction control.

I have to lock my 90s center diff with a lever, so much effort. but it is effectively not as good as the P38 or the L322.
All with open axle diffs.
J
Click to expand...
Point?

Well a p38 will never "lock" by its very name a viscous coupling is a limited slip diff, so can not offer the same constant 50:50 power split a locked LT230 does. The power split will vary always allowing the front and rear props to rotate at different speeds.

This has advantages that it is completely automatic and requires no driver interference, although under extreme conditions may mean you will not get the same drive to the front and rear as a locked LT230. Likely resulting in needing some slip or rotation in order to transmit power.

Turning circle can be bigger than an unlocked LT230, but smaller than a locked LT230.

L322 has better traction control than the p38 and all are 4 channel. Early models have a viscous centre diff, but latter models JLR as opposed to BMW based used a clutch plate centre diff which can fully lock, although will usually act as an LSD.

In either case, the p38 and L322 are quite different to a Discovery 1, which is what the op was asking about. So saying how an L322 would behave in the same situation probably isn't all that helpful. :)
 
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