Disco 2 Disco 2 Jate Rings

There are clearly massive differences of opinion over using towballs. They may or not be safe; the deaths may be the result of cheap or defective equipment or poor technique, I don't know. From my perspective I would rather have an attachment point that does not have a significant safety question hanging over it and on which I could use a snatch or dynamic technique with some confidence. Jate rings bolted to the chassis acting through a bridle seems reasonable for the few occasions I would need it.

Confident in using soft shackles BTW. I have used them for years in sailing and even make my own.

The First Four bumper looks good. If I were to buy one now (and having just spent a huge amount on a roof tent, I'm not), I think I would opt for this one from Dixon Fabrication which come with recovery points. I have their "Fatty" tree sliders and the quality is excellent.

Snatch recovery, kinetic ropes, all a bit of a no-no in the MSA recovery work I did. Not that I am totally against kinetic ropes but they DO have to be looked after, not as forgiving in that respect as wire winch cables.
+1 to all those who say a properly fitted tow ball is a safe item to use in a recovery. You can either put a shackle over the part just below the tow ball, that the ball itself will prevent slipping off, or you can use a strop or a rope looped over the shank as it were, a couple of times that will again be held in place by the ball when under tension.
Recovery points as I have posted about earlier are a very vexed question. Two decent ones are better than any single one used on its own. Better to find a way of attaching a pair of brothers or two ends of strop to two parts of the suspension system, then connected in the middle to the winch rope or wire.
Why are you so keen on snatch recovery? It is nowhere near as safe or controlled as a decent slow pull or winch.

I did not say that I was keen on snatch recovery. My point was that if a snatch recovery was what was required, I would like to be able to do it with confidence rather than worrying about the tow ball turning into a projectile. However, I am reassured that it is a safe procedure. Strange that a recovery technique that is so reviled in Australia and the States is commonplace here. I'm wondering whether tow balls are constructed differently in those countries.

Where practical I prefer a straightforward pull after clearing as much from underneath as possible. For self recovery I am thinking hand winch onto a bridle rather than electric. A lot more effort, but lighter and perhaps more flexible. Something likes this perhaps. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-E...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Si Click said:

I'm wondering whether tow balls are constructed differently in those countries.

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A bit of Googling and there might be something in that. If the fatalities occurred using tow balls like the one in this picture then it would explain a great deal.

Si Click said:

and on which I could use a snatch or dynamic technique with some confidence.

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Si Click said:

I did not say that I was keen on snatch recovery. My point was that if a snatch recovery was what was required, I would like to be able to do it with confidence rather than worrying about the tow ball turning into a projectile. However, I am reassured that it is a safe procedure. Strange that a recovery technique that is so reviled in Australia and the States is commonplace here. I'm wondering whether tow balls are constructed differently in those countries.

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Still interested that you keep mentioning a snatch recovery, and how it is so reviled but "commonplace" here. In an MSA situation, I have only ever seen it used once, not by my crew, and it was in a situation where it was not really dangerous and where speed was of the essence, cos in a stage on a rally often the person organising the stage needs recoveries to be done as quick as poss. Would never use it if being assessed for MAS licence.
If you are not in these circs, I really wouldn't recommend it, although I do not think you need to go as carefully as a handwinch. A mobile electric winch or a fixed winch either front or rear should do the job of self recovery. Although something like a Tirfor winch can be really handy, especially if you have tree strops, snatch blocks, lots of cable so you can double up, etc.

Mate, my concern is not a snatch recovery, nor am I particularly keen on them. I mentioned it once only because most incidents involving tow ball failure appear to have resulted from snatch recoveries, and I would like to have attachment points that would allow a snatch recovery if it was required. You have been banging on about it ever since.
The procedure which is being reviled in the US and Australia is using the tow ball as an attachment point not snatch recoveries themselves.

Fine, Si.
Look after yourself M8
cheers
Stan