difference between 19j and tdi
- Thread starter chris mcc
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Diesel Turbo (Engine Code 19J)
A late Diesel Turbo engine, incorporating all the design changes.
Land Rover’s global sales collapsed during the early 1980s.[47] This was mainly due to foreign competition offering larger, more powerful, more comfortable vehicles. Land Rover suffered from poor build quality and materials during the 1970s and by 1983 the then-current Series III model was distinctly outdated, despite recent improvements.[48] Land Rover decided to focus the sales of its Ninety/One Ten/127 range on the UK and Europe, for which it required a diesel engine with significantly better performance than the 68-horsepower 2.5-litre type then in production. Project Falcon was started in 1984 to develop a turbocharged version of this engine.[49] The resulting engine was Land Rover’s first production turbodiesel and their first engine to be given a marketing name- the Diesel Turbo,[50] a name given to differentiate it from the VM Motori-built turbodiesel then being used in the Range Rover, which was sold as the 'Turbo D'.[51] The Diesel Turbo, although essentially the same as the 2.5-litre diesel, had numerous additions and modifications to allow it to cope with the stresses of turbocharging. New pistons with Teflon-coated crowns and Nimonic steel exhaust valves were used to withstand higher combustion temperatures. The crankshaft was cross-drilled for improved strength and cooling. The block was modified to allow an oil feed/drain system to the turbocharger, and the cooling system was improved with an 8-bladed viscous fan and integral oil cooler. The engine was fitted with a high-capacity breather system to cope with the greater volumes of gas flow through the engine.[12][52] Despite the inherent age of the design, it performed well in tests against its rivals and provided the vital blend of performance and economy the Land Rover had needed for many years.[48] It was the first diesel model to match the petrol engine’s 4-ton towing limit and the first to be able to exceed the UK national speed limit of 70 mph (112 km/h).[53] However, early engines suffered several failures. Most serious were failed main and big-end bearings and splits or cracks in the block.[54] In 1988 a new block and an improved design of bearing and bearing cap was fitted which solved these issues. The engine’s higher internal temperatures meant that the cooling system also had to be maintained to a much higher standard than the earlier engines. The engine also suffered in the hands of operators not used to the maintenance requirements of turbocharged engines, such as the need for regular oil changes and the use of a special grade of oil. Failure to heed these requirements led to turbo failure and internal damage such as cracked pistons (caused by localised overheating). Further changes were made in 1990, this time to the breather system to prevent oil being drawn into the air filter. Despite these issues, the Diesel Turbo was a strong seller. It was the standard engine for the UK and European markets and Land Rover’s sales increased after its introduction.[44][55] Time has shown that these engines can turn in long service lives if maintained as required—like many early turbodiesels, a lack of maintenance causes failure.[54][56][57]
Layout: 4-cylinder, in-line
Block/Head: Cast iron/cast iron
Valves: OHV, belt-driven camshaft, push-rod operated
Capacity: 2,495 cc (152.2 cu. in)
Bore x stroke: 90.47 mm x 97 mm (3.56 in x 3.81 in)
Compression ratio: 21:1
Fuel injection: Lucas-CAV DPS rotary pump + CAV Pintaux injectors
Induction: Garrett T2 turbocharger
Power: 85 bhp (63 kW) @ 4,250 rpm
Torque: 150 lbf·ft (203 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm
Production: 1986-1990
Used in: Land Rover Ninety/One Ten/127, Land Rover Llama prototype.
200Tdi (Engine Code 11L)
This Defender-spec 200Tdi has been retro-fitted into an earlier vehicle. It lacks the intercooler fitted to the standard engine and has the alternator mounted in a different location.
In 1989 Land Rover had launched the Discovery its Range Rover-based family 4x4 that quickly became Europe’s top-selling 4x4.[58] One of the key reasons for its success was its ground-breaking turbodiesel engine. The 200Tdi was one of the first mass produced small-capacity (i.e. not a lorry engine) direct-injection diesels,[59] with the attendant improvements in power and efficiency that system brings. Developed under the codename ‘Gemini’, the 200Tdi was planned from the start to be used on all Land Rover’s products.[12] For production reasons, it had to be machined on the existing machinery, so used the same block and crankshaft as the existing 2.5-litre diesel engines. It also used many ancillary parts used on the older engines.[60][61] However, it was a true break with the past. An aluminium alloy cylinder head reduced weight and noise, a new Bosch injection system gave improved running characteristics and better starting performance. An intercooler boosted power and efficiency further. Lessons learnt from the Diesel Turbo were included, such as the fitment of an inertial separator in the breather system to remove oil before crankcase gases were returned to the air intake. Initially turbocharged and naturally aspirated diesel versions and a carburettor-fed petrol version were to be produced. The direct-injection system meant that only machining of the injector sockets was needed to allow the fitment of spark plugs. However, the performance and economy of the turbodiesel version was such that the other variants were not produced.[12] The 200Tdi was launched in the Discovery in 1989. It was then fitted to the utility Land Rover (renamed the Defender) in late 1990.[62] For this application the engine was slightly de-tuned and, whilst in the Discovery the 200Tdi used all-new components, packaging restraints in the Defender meant that the 200Tdi in this role shared many exterior parts (such as the timing belt system and case) with the Diesel Turbo. Most obviously the turbocharger was retained in the Diesel Turbo's high mounting position on top of the manifolds in the Defender, rather than being tucked under the manifolds in the original Discovery version.[63] In 1992 the engine was fitted to the Range Rover. Although the older petrol and naturally aspirated diesel units were theoretically still available, the 200Tdi had better performance and economy than any of them, and so dominated the sales figures.[64] It is still highly regarded by Land Rover enthusiasts and has established itself as a powerful and long-lived unit that with proper maintenance can exceed 300,000 miles of use.[63][65][66] The engine's commonality with the older models makes it a popular choice for installation in older Land Rovers. This is done both in original form or with the turbo removed (when the engine becomes known to enthusiasts as a 200Di) in order to keep the power/torque output within the limits of a Series Land Rover's gearbox and for greater ease of conversion. The turbocharged version may also be installed with or without the intercooler.
Layout: 4-cylinder, in-line
Block/Head: Cast iron/aluminium alloy
Valves: OHV, belt-driven camshaft, push-rod operated
Capacity: 2,495 cc (152.2 cu. in)
Bore x stroke: 90.47 mm x 97 mm (3.56 in x 3.81 in)
Compression ratio: 19:1
Fuel injection: Bosch VE rotary pump + Bosch two-stage injectors
Induction: Garrett T25 turbocharger
Power: 111 bhp (83 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (Discovery + Range Rover)
107 bhp (80 kW ) @ 3,900 rpm (Defender)
Torque: 195 lbf·ft (264 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Discovery + Range Rover)
188 lbf·ft (255 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Defender)
Production: 1989-1994
Used in: Land Rover Defender, Discovery + Range Rover
A late Diesel Turbo engine, incorporating all the design changes.
Land Rover’s global sales collapsed during the early 1980s.[47] This was mainly due to foreign competition offering larger, more powerful, more comfortable vehicles. Land Rover suffered from poor build quality and materials during the 1970s and by 1983 the then-current Series III model was distinctly outdated, despite recent improvements.[48] Land Rover decided to focus the sales of its Ninety/One Ten/127 range on the UK and Europe, for which it required a diesel engine with significantly better performance than the 68-horsepower 2.5-litre type then in production. Project Falcon was started in 1984 to develop a turbocharged version of this engine.[49] The resulting engine was Land Rover’s first production turbodiesel and their first engine to be given a marketing name- the Diesel Turbo,[50] a name given to differentiate it from the VM Motori-built turbodiesel then being used in the Range Rover, which was sold as the 'Turbo D'.[51] The Diesel Turbo, although essentially the same as the 2.5-litre diesel, had numerous additions and modifications to allow it to cope with the stresses of turbocharging. New pistons with Teflon-coated crowns and Nimonic steel exhaust valves were used to withstand higher combustion temperatures. The crankshaft was cross-drilled for improved strength and cooling. The block was modified to allow an oil feed/drain system to the turbocharger, and the cooling system was improved with an 8-bladed viscous fan and integral oil cooler. The engine was fitted with a high-capacity breather system to cope with the greater volumes of gas flow through the engine.[12][52] Despite the inherent age of the design, it performed well in tests against its rivals and provided the vital blend of performance and economy the Land Rover had needed for many years.[48] It was the first diesel model to match the petrol engine’s 4-ton towing limit and the first to be able to exceed the UK national speed limit of 70 mph (112 km/h).[53] However, early engines suffered several failures. Most serious were failed main and big-end bearings and splits or cracks in the block.[54] In 1988 a new block and an improved design of bearing and bearing cap was fitted which solved these issues. The engine’s higher internal temperatures meant that the cooling system also had to be maintained to a much higher standard than the earlier engines. The engine also suffered in the hands of operators not used to the maintenance requirements of turbocharged engines, such as the need for regular oil changes and the use of a special grade of oil. Failure to heed these requirements led to turbo failure and internal damage such as cracked pistons (caused by localised overheating). Further changes were made in 1990, this time to the breather system to prevent oil being drawn into the air filter. Despite these issues, the Diesel Turbo was a strong seller. It was the standard engine for the UK and European markets and Land Rover’s sales increased after its introduction.[44][55] Time has shown that these engines can turn in long service lives if maintained as required—like many early turbodiesels, a lack of maintenance causes failure.[54][56][57]
Layout: 4-cylinder, in-line
Block/Head: Cast iron/cast iron
Valves: OHV, belt-driven camshaft, push-rod operated
Capacity: 2,495 cc (152.2 cu. in)
Bore x stroke: 90.47 mm x 97 mm (3.56 in x 3.81 in)
Compression ratio: 21:1
Fuel injection: Lucas-CAV DPS rotary pump + CAV Pintaux injectors
Induction: Garrett T2 turbocharger
Power: 85 bhp (63 kW) @ 4,250 rpm
Torque: 150 lbf·ft (203 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm
Production: 1986-1990
Used in: Land Rover Ninety/One Ten/127, Land Rover Llama prototype.
200Tdi (Engine Code 11L)
This Defender-spec 200Tdi has been retro-fitted into an earlier vehicle. It lacks the intercooler fitted to the standard engine and has the alternator mounted in a different location.
In 1989 Land Rover had launched the Discovery its Range Rover-based family 4x4 that quickly became Europe’s top-selling 4x4.[58] One of the key reasons for its success was its ground-breaking turbodiesel engine. The 200Tdi was one of the first mass produced small-capacity (i.e. not a lorry engine) direct-injection diesels,[59] with the attendant improvements in power and efficiency that system brings. Developed under the codename ‘Gemini’, the 200Tdi was planned from the start to be used on all Land Rover’s products.[12] For production reasons, it had to be machined on the existing machinery, so used the same block and crankshaft as the existing 2.5-litre diesel engines. It also used many ancillary parts used on the older engines.[60][61] However, it was a true break with the past. An aluminium alloy cylinder head reduced weight and noise, a new Bosch injection system gave improved running characteristics and better starting performance. An intercooler boosted power and efficiency further. Lessons learnt from the Diesel Turbo were included, such as the fitment of an inertial separator in the breather system to remove oil before crankcase gases were returned to the air intake. Initially turbocharged and naturally aspirated diesel versions and a carburettor-fed petrol version were to be produced. The direct-injection system meant that only machining of the injector sockets was needed to allow the fitment of spark plugs. However, the performance and economy of the turbodiesel version was such that the other variants were not produced.[12] The 200Tdi was launched in the Discovery in 1989. It was then fitted to the utility Land Rover (renamed the Defender) in late 1990.[62] For this application the engine was slightly de-tuned and, whilst in the Discovery the 200Tdi used all-new components, packaging restraints in the Defender meant that the 200Tdi in this role shared many exterior parts (such as the timing belt system and case) with the Diesel Turbo. Most obviously the turbocharger was retained in the Diesel Turbo's high mounting position on top of the manifolds in the Defender, rather than being tucked under the manifolds in the original Discovery version.[63] In 1992 the engine was fitted to the Range Rover. Although the older petrol and naturally aspirated diesel units were theoretically still available, the 200Tdi had better performance and economy than any of them, and so dominated the sales figures.[64] It is still highly regarded by Land Rover enthusiasts and has established itself as a powerful and long-lived unit that with proper maintenance can exceed 300,000 miles of use.[63][65][66] The engine's commonality with the older models makes it a popular choice for installation in older Land Rovers. This is done both in original form or with the turbo removed (when the engine becomes known to enthusiasts as a 200Di) in order to keep the power/torque output within the limits of a Series Land Rover's gearbox and for greater ease of conversion. The turbocharged version may also be installed with or without the intercooler.
Layout: 4-cylinder, in-line
Block/Head: Cast iron/aluminium alloy
Valves: OHV, belt-driven camshaft, push-rod operated
Capacity: 2,495 cc (152.2 cu. in)
Bore x stroke: 90.47 mm x 97 mm (3.56 in x 3.81 in)
Compression ratio: 19:1
Fuel injection: Bosch VE rotary pump + Bosch two-stage injectors
Induction: Garrett T25 turbocharger
Power: 111 bhp (83 kW) @ 4,250 rpm (Discovery + Range Rover)
107 bhp (80 kW ) @ 3,900 rpm (Defender)
Torque: 195 lbf·ft (264 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Discovery + Range Rover)
188 lbf·ft (255 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (Defender)
Production: 1989-1994
Used in: Land Rover Defender, Discovery + Range Rover
Last edited:
blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
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Kinell Daft......dont hold back!
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yes - see post #5
blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
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some of us still are
MHM's post tells you just about everything you could want to know but it might be worth using google pics to have a look.......the fender and disco tdi's look quite different at 1st glance
Good luckand hopefully ill be driving home in my first landy tommorrow
blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
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Oddie
AntiSeptic Sandal Wearer
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If the oil filler cap pulls out and is black, it's a 19J and is ****, don't bother.
If the filler cap is yellow and unscrews, it's a 200 and is the best engine they ever produced.
Dont get all het up about the engine though, the chassis is far more important (particularly if it's of an age where it could have a 19J in it - ie pre 1990)
If the filler cap is yellow and unscrews, it's a 200 and is the best engine they ever produced.
Dont get all het up about the engine though, the chassis is far more important (particularly if it's of an age where it could have a 19J in it - ie pre 1990)
