Diesel tuning, taken further...

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Are you still going on?!

I'm fine with hearing about the ins and outs of how to deal with upgrades on a car, but as I said I'm not interested in your egocentric posts and condescending attitude towards me.

Ade, you're not going to win much support as a newbie having a go, rightly or wrongly, at one of the most senior members on here. While I feel Wammers was a bit OTT in his initial comment, you have to understand his frustration. He's got near on 9000 posts, 10% of which will be slagging off people, 10% havin a laugh but 80% spending his own free time giving great free advice. I've had many a tiff with the old bollix but you've got to give the cantankerous old git the respect he deserves cause much as I hate to admit it he's bloody well right 99% of the time:doh::doh::doh:

The longer you spend on a forum the more you see guys coming on who haven't bothered using the search function asking questions that have been answered 100 times before making it harder to find the threads with good info. There is only so many times experienced people will type out their experience to pass it on. In your case you're getting angsty and you've not even bought the Rangie so are unlikely to be able to contribute to the forum until such time as you do.

Modding the M51 engine has been dealt with in detail several times. You were really given the answers you need in searching under Aaron Beast unleashed's posts. The various approaches and their associated pit falls have been pointed out. You have 3 stages:

1. The simple plug in chip most of us use to make the P38 DSE driveable. Costs little but puts gearbox and head gasket at a little risk if you cane it. This can be done with or without adjusting the boost up to manufacturers max recommended.

2. Jeremy Fearns approach, Full ECU remap in conjunction with larger intercooler. Again turbo boost should be brought up to recommended max. The existing turbo is more than capable of putting out 1.5bar if you're brave which is more than enough for the diesel pressure a 100,000 mile pump can put out. As has been pointed out to you, the torque output of a chipped DSE exceeds the capacity of the gearbox. It might be possible to fit a 4.6 gearbox but no-one has knowingly done one yet, thats not to say it hasn't happened.

3. Anything else above that but it is likely you will cook the head if you don't manage EGT. This engine was raced in BMW 3 series so performance mods have been made but a bigger turbo will be totallty unsuitable to the low down torque requirements of the P38.

A Jeremy Fearned P38 is more than capable of getting its live axled self into all kinds of trouble if caned on the road, a 3 series its not, so care would be needed on the handling if you mod it too much.
 
If you do a search, there is a company doing a TdV6 transplant if your pocket is deep enough.
The P38 is intrinsically unreliable, upping the power will simply add to the problems you will experience. If you're doing it for amusement as a project, have fun, if you are doing it to a car as your daily drive, forget it. Cheaper to go for an L322 in the first place with the 3.0 lump or even better a later one with the TdV6 or TdV8.
 
If being told your barking up the wrong tree is condescending, go for it mate. You obviously know sod all or you would not be asking silly questions. Dream on dreamer.:p:doh::doh::doh:

No, being told I know nothing and that I am a dreamer because I am looking into tuning options is out of order.
If you want an ego massage or a fight you'll have to look elsewhere, I have no time for the likes of you.

People like you with a hefty post count and attitude to match cropping up wherever possible are exactly what drives many people away from a forum.
 
No, being told I know nothing and that I am a dreamer because I am looking into tuning options is out of order.
If you want an ego massage or a fight you'll have to look elsewhere, I have no time for the likes of you.

People like you with a hefty post count and attitude to match cropping up wherever possible are exactly what drives many people away from a forum.

Time for the Scots to be given full independance and Hadrians wall rebuilt:rolleyes:
 
Ade, you're not going to win much support as a newbie having a go, rightly or wrongly, at one of the most senior members on here. While I feel Wammers was a bit OTT in his initial comment, you have to understand his frustration. He's got near on 9000 posts, 10% of which will be slagging off people, 10% havin a laugh but 80% spending his own free time giving great free advice. I've had many a tiff with the old bollix but you've got to give the cantankerous old git the respect he deserves cause much as I hate to admit it he's bloody well right 99% of the time:doh::doh::doh:

The longer you spend on a forum the more you see guys coming on who haven't bothered using the search function asking questions that have been answered 100 times before making it harder to find the threads with good info. There is only so many times experienced people will type out their experience to pass it on. In your case you're getting angsty and you've not even bought the Rangie so are unlikely to be able to contribute to the forum until such time as you do.

Modding the M51 engine has been dealt with in detail several times. You were really given the answers you need in searching under Aaron Beast unleashed's posts. The various approaches and their associated pit falls have been pointed out. You have 3 stages:

1. The simple plug in chip most of us use to make the P38 DSE driveable. Costs little but puts gearbox and head gasket at a little risk if you cane it. This can be done with or without adjusting the boost up to manufacturers max recommended.

2. Jeremy Fearns approach, Full ECU remap in conjunction with larger intercooler. Again turbo boost should be brought up to recommended max. The existing turbo is more than capable of putting out 1.5bar if you're brave which is more than enough for the diesel pressure a 100,000 mile pump can put out. As has been pointed out to you, the torque output of a chipped DSE exceeds the capacity of the gearbox. It might be possible to fit a 4.6 gearbox but no-one has knowingly done one yet, thats not to say it hasn't happened.

3. Anything else above that but it is likely you will cook the head if you don't manage EGT. This engine was raced in BMW 3 series so performance mods have been made but a bigger turbo will be totallty unsuitable to the low down torque requirements of the P38.

A Jeremy Fearned P38 is more than capable of getting its live axled self into all kinds of trouble if caned on the road, a 3 series its not, so care would be needed on the handling if you mod it too much.

A well thought out informative post! Plenty to take on board there. Thanks.So much more useful than being slagged off for even contemplating what is contained in it!

I find it laughable to brand someone who is unknown on here a 'dreamer and clueless' for contemplating some mapping and bolt on mods to a car worth a few grand! :rolleyes:
Not even remotely in the same league as some of my other previous and current projects.
 
No, being told I know nothing and that I am a dreamer because I am looking into tuning options is out of order.
If you want an ego massage or a fight you'll have to look elsewhere, I have no time for the likes of you.

People like you with a hefty post count and attitude to match cropping up wherever possible are exactly what drives many people away from a forum.

Naaaah mate it's the advice they get that they come for. But some get good advice and ignore it. They leave blistered because after asking advice they start telling the bloke giving it he is wrong. Why ask advice then when you get it, go off on a tangent. If your so good, why the frigging hell did you ask in the first place. Unless you build a new engine, doing what you propose is going to blow one with 100K on it up, in pretty short order. That is what i am telling you. Now either listen and learn or bugger off and do what you want. But don't come on here in six months time asking where you can get a new engine because a conrod decided to go in holiday. If your thinking of doing what you first asked about to a high mile M51 you are indeed a dreamer. The tuning scope on such a car is minimal, if you want a Rangie with grunt buy a V8. And you don't know how much it pains me to say that.:)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ade B
Excuse me?! "I'm a dreamer"? Well I don't appreciate that, and if I typed my initial reaction to your comments I'd probably get the topic closed.
I'm looking for information for future ideas. It's called planning ahead.

I'm not going to justify myself, and have no need to. I'm merely looking for some advice and info from people who may have gone down these roads before.
1. Considering a P38 DSE
2. Wanting more than the meagre power they seem to have
3. Finding out what the shortcomings are
4. Finding out how to address these issues


Being insulted by mouthy forum members wasn't my intended step 5

Answers:

1. Good Choice - I have one too
2. Don't get a Oil Burning P38 then...up the engine spec and chew up gearboxes - the L322 'box isn't a straight swap, and with the multitude of electronics to contend with, would be difficult for the DIY'er to approach.
3. Money
4. Buy a different vehicle....


TBH, my DSE is quite spritly when poked, when I bought it a reciept was in the folder of reciepts from Janspeed, indicated a remapping - although I have not had this confirmed, but it will go like a scalded whippet when you mash the loud pedal....

The M51 for the Range Rover was retuned to provide low end grunt and not top end speed, as in a capable 4x4 it is all about the low end - as they say when off roading - as slow as possible and as fast as necessary - which is rarely above 15-20mph and more like 5-10mph.

If you want speed or power, buy a BMW, Merc or Audi....

This why the Cayennes, BMW X ranges, Merc M Classes, Audi Q series vehicles are not great at the dirty stuff, they are aimed at road users who want a 4x4 to use on the roads....not a true 4x4 with a 60+ year history of offroading.

If you want poke and also the mpg benefit of a diesel but still a 4x4 with proven offroad ability - get an lpg V8.

Its not about speed, its about ability - which the Range Rover (and the other Land Rover models - Evoque aside I guess) has in spades.

I still stand by my previous answer....mpg go for a diesel - speed and poke - a V8 - want both V8 on LPG....

As that stupid little meerkat says on those idiotic advert - Simples!
 
if you want a Rangie with grunt buy a V8. And you don't know how much it pains me to say that.:)

:D:D:D

I feel your pain Wammers, don't worry though the thread title will keep most of the petrol heads skimming over it with glazed eyes as they go off to help the next fella whose V8 is running crap on LPG cause he's trying to get diesel economy out of a 60 year old engine design :p:p:p
 
:D:D:D

I feel your pain Wammers, don't worry though the thread title will keep most of the petrol heads skimming over it with glazed eyes as they go off to help the next fella whose V8 is running crap on LPG cause he's trying to get diesel economy out of a 60 year old engine design :p:p:p


Tis a bit painful when someone asks what will happen if they jump off a cliff. Then when you say don't do it, if you think it won't hurt when you get to the bottom your dreaming. Then come back saying how dare you call me a dreamer. How do you know it will hurt?
 
I asked in my initial post "if anyone had taken diesel tuning further in a P38?".
And if so "in what way?"

All this talk guessing that I'm about to run huge boost on a knackered drivetrain and expect miracles is completely missing the point! I was asking about what COULD be done.
The clue is in the title! Diesel tuning TAKEN FURTHER.

To call me a dreamer and insinuate that I don't have a clue simply because I'm asking for advice and experiences from people who have previously explored these engines is out of order, rude and completely moronic.
Why get so defensive?! And why be so unimaginative?!
 
I asked in my initial post "if anyone had taken diesel tuning further in a P38?".
And if so "in what way?"

All this talk guessing that I'm about to run huge boost on a knackered drivetrain and expect miracles is completely missing the point! I was asking about what COULD be done.
The clue is in the title! Diesel tuning TAKEN FURTHER.

To call me a dreamer and insinuate that I don't have a clue simply because I'm asking for advice and experiences from people who have previously explored these engines is out of order, rude and completely moronic.
Why get so defensive?! And why be so unimaginative?!


So you are going to build a brand new engine to fit your larger turbo on are you? Tell me, why do you choose a 2.5 diesel Range Rover over a V8 which is a lot easier to get more power out of?
 
Are you blatantly on the wind up?! Or are you really just so unable to understand a simple concept even when it's repeatedly explained?!

Go back and read my last post again. I'm fed up repeating myself.
 
I have p38 DSE !!! :clap2:

A manual with a PSI box and K&N panel filter and it just about keeps up with a 2.2 2011 Def90! . Straight 6 diesels aren't the best for tuning and used more for high torque applications...trucks, plant, marine etc etc

My advice Ade is not to get one.

The reason, if you did you wouldn't get much help on here having upset one of the most knowledgeable posters on here. His posts and direct replies have kept me and plent of other dse owners on the road. (Thanks Wammers (and data!(and saint v8!))) This is one of the most informative forums for the p38 on the net.

besides before you even get to turbos and chips You will spend all your 'tuning' budget on,
spill pipes,
injector cleaner,
oil,
filters,
wheel bearings,
sync software,
EAS software
Airbags
eka codes from dealers,
Viscous couplings
radiators
prop shafts
transfer boxes
tyres
spigot rings
brake caliper sliding pins
brake grease
brake pads
brake discs
intercooler pipes
intercooler flush
hevac units
blower fans
heated seat elements
tailgate solenoids
relays
fuseboards
batteries
jump cables
RAC membership
RF receivers
kep replacement buttons
oil sump plugs
thread lock
lith grease
fuel tank pumps
FIP's
a box of o rings and seals
crowbar

If you want to tune may i suggest a 335d :) thats the missuses and thats a good diesel.
 
Last edited:
I have p38 DSE !!! :clap2:

..........The reason, if you did you wouldn't get much help on here having upset one of the most knowledgeable posters on here. His posts and direct replies have kept me and plent of other dse owners on the road. (Thanks Wammers (and data!(and saint v8!))) This is one of the most informative forums for the p38 on the net.
..........
To be mentioned with such undoubtedly well respected names on this forum is a true honour - Thank you Aero.:)

Chuffed!
 
Are you blatantly on the wind up?! Or are you really just so unable to understand a simple concept even when it's repeatedly explained?!

Go back and read my last post again. I'm fed up repeating myself.

No wind up, i just asked a question. Why do you choose an engine with little power that can only be marginally tweaked. Instead of one with power to start with and that can be considerably tweaked?
 
Wammers you seem to be missing my point again....

I asked in my initial post "if anyone had taken diesel tuning further in a P38?".
And if so "in what way?"

All this talk guessing that I'm about to run huge boost on a knackered drivetrain and expect miracles is completely missing the point! I was asking about what COULD be done.
The clue is in the title! Diesel tuning TAKEN FURTHER.

To call me a dreamer and insinuate that I don't have a clue simply because I'm asking for advice and experiences from people who have previously explored these engines is out of order, rude and completely moronic.
Why get so defensive?! And why be so unimaginative?!


On other forums dedicated to other cars members would recount tales of how for example conrods would need uprated for forged items, and how the head would need flowed, uprated gaskets etc if going the extra mile. Not "you are a clueless dreamer who obviously knows less than me for even considering such an idea"! This just suggests that you feel intimidated by the thought of someone wanting to consider possibilities beyond what you have tried. And consider is the key element!
As I have recounted so many times I wanted to hear about what is required, NOT that I am automatically about to attempt to delve into such a project.

You may know a lot about Range Rovers, but you sure don't have a great understanding of the English language. Feel free to apologise for being rude, but other than that I'm not interested in anything else you have to say.
 
Wammers you seem to be missing my point again....




On other forums dedicated to other cars members would recount tales of how for example conrods would need uprated for forged items, and how the head would need flowed, uprated gaskets etc if going the extra mile. Not "you are a clueless dreamer who obviously knows less than me for even considering such an idea"! This just suggests that you feel intimidated by the thought of someone wanting to consider possibilities beyond what you have tried. And consider is the key element!
As I have recounted so many times I wanted to hear about what is required, NOT that I am automatically about to attempt to delve into such a project.

You may know a lot about Range Rovers, but you sure don't have a great understanding of the English language. Feel free to apologise for being rude, but other than that I'm not interested in anything else you have to say.

Are you as much of a pedantic arsehole as you sound or is it verbal masturbation to match the intellectual masturbation of tuning a tractor engine?
 
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