Diesel td4 freelander engine management light

For the past couple of months now my diesel freelander has been causing problems. A few months ago the engine warning light came on. Then a couple of days later it went into limp mode. I took it to a garage and after reading the error message they replaced the Mass Airflow Metre. This fixed the problem and the freelander drove great but only for a day when it just suddenly died on me, all the dash lights on and it just wont start. So today it's had a new remote fuel pump but that made no difference, it still wont start. Then last week we decided to replace the high pressure fuel pump and it worked!!! We drove it fine for a couple of days and then this morning the engine managment light is on again and it wont start!!! Please any ideas as it's causing us a fortune and no one knows what is wrong with it and the error codes as so general. Cheers.

Did you change the fuel filter at the same time? Take the pipe off the supply to the first injector and ensure fuel is flowing at least. It should flow at Ignition pos II without turning the engine over.

always replace the filter when you have to replace a pump usually it is muck out of the tank getting into the pump that fails it

Thanks, but yes I did change the filter as I did a full service on it at the same time.

It's so strange as it was running fine for a few days but this morning it stopped working, left it for half an hour, tried it again and it started, but the tried it again a few hours later and it worked and then i stopped the car for a few minutes and then it wouldn't start again. But i kept turning the engine over and over and eventually it started again but the EML is always on now

hi, i have never posted on site before , but my problem sounds the same , engine runs well and then stops , starts again imediately but it scares me when i am on a motorway , full service ,new fuel pump ,filter, sedimenter , crank case breather , red x in full tank , 3 diagnostics ,etc etc , its a 05 td4 , and i am at my wits end now , this is my second freelander and first one drove for 5 years without a problem , so this is an upgrade for me ,but am running out of funds now ,any hints would help , all can say is what is not wrong with it , after £ 800 pounds on replacement parts and diagnostics , going of land rovers now ,just waiting for a naf sensor to arrive to try that , then its going to the scrap yard ,,sorry to rant just letting off steam ,,,,suzy

I presume 3 diagnostics means that its been plugged into a diag machine 3 times and no error code are shown?

This sounds like it could be a faulty ignition (key) switch, they are known to cause this type of problem. As I understand it they can get an intermittent failure where its as if you've turned the key off while you're driving. Others may comment, but have a search on here because it has been discussed and might find some useful tips.

GrumpyGel said:

I presume 3 diagnostics means that its been plugged into a diag machine 3 times and no error code are shown?

This sounds like it could be a faulty ignition (key) switch, they are known to cause this type of problem. As I understand it they can get an intermittent failure where its as if you've turned the key off while you're driving. Others may comment, but have a search on here because it has been discussed and might find some useful tips.

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hi, thank you ,i will get another key post haste and let you know ,the diadnostics show code 1602 security ,,and key is a little bent ,but it was the only key with the car , ,,going to try to make locksmiths now ,, will get back to you , if this works ,its been a very expensive key, thank you for your help , Suzy

Also cam / crank sensors fail when warm and return to normal when cooled down

susan james said:

hi, i have never posted on site before , but my problem sounds the same , engine runs well and then stops , starts again imediately but it scares me when i am on a motorway , full service ,new fuel pump ,filter, sedimenter , crank case breather , red x in full tank , 3 diagnostics ,etc etc , its a 05 td4 , and i am at my wits end now , this is my second freelander and first one drove for 5 years without a problem , so this is an upgrade for me ,but am running out of funds now ,any hints would help , all can say is what is not wrong with it , after £ 800 pounds on replacement parts and diagnostics , going of land rovers now ,just waiting for a naf sensor to arrive to try that , then its going to the scrap yard ,,sorry to rant just letting off steam ,,,,suzy

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Sounds like a dodgy ignition switch.

EDIT: Just like GrumpyGel suggested.

susan james said:

hi, thank you ,i will get another key post haste and let you know ,the diadnostics show code 1602 security ,,and key is a little bent ,but it was the only key with the car , ,,going to try to make locksmiths now ,, will get back to you , if this works ,its been a very expensive key, thank you for your help , Suzy

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You're in a difficult situation now but possibly walking into a minefield when you start talking about changing keys.

As I understand it, there are 3 components to a 'key'

(1) the blade (metal bit) that you insert into the locks or ignition and acts as a traditional key - if this bit by itself is changed (ie another blade cut from your key) then its pretty straight forward. If you get another profile key, then its the traditional problem of getting all the barrels changed in the doors, ignition and petrol cap to fit the new profile.

(2) the 'remote' bit - ie the buttons for the central locking and alarm. If a new one is purchased - then the car's security system needs to be coded to allow the new remote - this needs someone with the necessary diag/coding equipment and costs/complexity mounts.

(3) a 'transducer' thingie (and that's probably the wrong word) which sends a signal to the cars imobiliser when you put the key in the ignition and allows it to start. As with the remote, the car's security system needs to be coded to allow it to function with added cost/complexity.

So unless you're just going to the locksmiths for a new blade to be cut from your existing key and it is to be used with the existing handle (fob?) bit from the current key - take a step back and have another think. As I say, it can be mine field, can be expensive and often what people get isn't exactly what was said on the tin!

My initial comment related to the actual internals of the ignition switch on the steering column. However, if you've got a 'munted' key - I suppose that might cause the same problems. I'm not sure what the 1602 code means. Have you had a search on here for it? If it relates to security - then it does appear that there may be something dodgy in the key/remote/imobiliser/ingition switch - however, it is an old historic code or one that has been raised recently during 1 of your 'events'?

P1602 is an immobiliser/even comms fault. If you have a known good key I'd give that a whirl.

4x4Dog said:

P1602 is an immobiliser/even comms fault. If you have a known good key I'd give that a whirl.

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hi, thank you for your help ,i bought a new transponder key , and it was synced to the car , (£52) not as expensive as i first thought , but 5 minutes into journey home car stopped , it started again straight away ,so i am now assuming it is not a fault with the key , i sent for a maf sensor and it was posted out quickly but the wrong one arrived , so am still waiting to change this ,after you comments i think the problem may be inside the ignition switch, running out of things to try , it would not be so bad if car just stopped but it once happened on a slight hill and just kept moving , which was scary , i am not used to messing with cars , but this is a learning curve for me , i might jus buy a cycle and use pedal power , ,,really grateful for any help , and thank you again ,,,Suzy

Is it a manual or automatic?
One thing to check, as it sounds like a comms issue. The ABS pump is on the front left of the engine bay (lots of metal pipes going into the top) . You will see a plastic connection on it. Pull the tab up and then the connector will pull out, backwards towards the windscreen. Give it a clean, then push back in firmly and push the tab back down.
This connector can be trouble some and give spurious faults and cut the engine out. To diagnose properly you need a reader for the ABS ecu, not the standard engine code reader.
Best of luck.
Mike

Skinny Mike said:

Is it a manual or automatic?
One thing to check, as it sounds like a comms issue. The ABS pump is on the front left of the engine bay (lots of metal pipes going into the top) . You will see a plastic connection on it. Pull the tab up and then the connector will pull out, backwards towards the windscreen. Give it a clean, then push back in firmly and push the tab back down.
This connector can be trouble some and give spurious faults and cut the engine out. To diagnose properly you need a reader for the ABS ecu, not the standard engine code reader.
Best of luck.
Mike

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hi, thank you ,i will try this ,mine is manual td4 2005 ,ist a bmw engine ,,,will let you know how i get on ,only had car 5 months ,and have not been able to go anywhere since buying it , thank again ,,,Suzy you

Yes it's a BMW M47 engine.
But you have more than 1 ecu. Not all diagnostic machines will read all the faults. The ABS has its own and the auto transmission, which is why I asked.
Mine has a similar fault, where all the dash lights come on, the speedo and revs counter die, then the auto box throws a wobbler! And yes, I'm having a nightmare finding the fault, even though I have a reader that will talk to all the ecu's. So I have a generic idea what's up, but not specific.
Spend more time watching the instrument panel than driving the car! It's quite an experience when the car suddenly decides it doesn't like 5th gear at 70mph and slams it into limp mode
Mike

Skinny Mike said:

Yes it's a BMW M47 engine.
But you have more than 1 ecu. Not all diagnostic machines will read all the faults. The ABS has its own and the auto transmission, which is why I asked.
Mine has a similar fault, where all the dash lights come on, the speedo and revs counter die, then the auto box throws a wobbler! And yes, I'm having a nightmare finding the fault, even though I have a reader that will talk to all the ecu's. So I have a generic idea what's up, but not specific.
Spend more time watching the instrument panel than driving the car! It's quite an experience when the car suddenly decides it doesn't like 5th gear at 70mph and slams it into limp mode
Mike

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hi, thank you , i have not had the pleasure of driving it at 70 mph ,went on to local motorway to see if blasting engine might help , after 40 seconds car stopped , i came off at next exit and drove home , puzzle for me is it drives really well , and would be great if it did not just stop , thank you again ,,, Suzy

I don't think I'm wrong in saying that as it simply cuts straight out it is an electrical fault. Others may have alternate possibilities?

There's no spark plugs or anything on the diesel engine - if the engine's turning and diesel is flowing then the engine will continue to run - therefore for it to stop diesel is not getting into the engine. On my L Series, for diesel to be flowing all that is needed is for the pump be pumping. On your TD4 it needs the pump to be pumping and the injectors must be told to open at the right time. The pump (I would presume) is purely mechanical - if the engine's turning, the pump is pumping - there wouldn't be anything electrical to stop that (even if I'm wrong and the ECU can alter the amount its pumping, I would have thought it would pump 'some' fuel). So the injectors are not being told to open - they are not letting fuel into the engine.

Especially as you have a manual (which will keep the engine turning if it turns off until the car comes to a halt), this isn't a tiny 'little blip' of a fault - ie its not just turning the injectors off for 1 turn of the engine. If that were the case, you would have a very lumpy engine (a misfire) that would ultimately continue to drive the car. So for this reason, and the fact that it starts straight back up 100% of the time, I don't think its a fault in the wiring (harness) to the injectors - which is a common problem with TD4 engines I believe. The fault is further 'back'.

Coming back from there then - you get to the engine's ECU. This does have the capability to simply turn the engine off - ie not tell the injectors to let any fuel into the engine. The questions therefore is why could the ECU be doing this? Usually the only reason of course is that it has detected that you've turned the key to the 'Off' position! You're not doing that. There are a myriad of sensors on the TD4's engine the ECU uses to control when and how much fuel the injectors allow into the engine. Most of these would NOT result in the ECU simply turning off the engine - if things got bad enough, the MIL (engine) light would be lit on the dashboard - but the engine would run to some level of performance. For that reason, I can't see how changing the MAF sensor is going to change things (I had a Disco with a faulty MAF and it did stall the engine at times - but most of the time the engine just didn't perform very well!).

One sensor that might have the capability for telling the ECU to not deliver any fuel I suppose is the Crank/Cam position sensor. If this simply turned off (ie intermittent fault) the ECU wouldn't know where the pistons were so wouldn't know they needed fuel. I would have thought though that the ECU would be 'clever' enough to 'try' to keep the engine running and would have thrown the MIL light and a code would have been read by the diagnostics machine.

So we can rule out sensors feeding the ECU with misinformation. What we can't rule out though is a fault with the ECU. They are computers and we all know that they can simply 'hang'! With ECUs though they don't usually hang like a PC does - but they can develop physical faults that triggers a 'hang'. This is a possibility for your problem - but I think unlikely - and the cost of replacing it (together with the security CCU, keys etc) means I think other possibilities should be looked into first.

So why else would the ECU stop the engine? If it lost power it obviously couldn't keep the engine running. Its worth checking the battery connections - but if they were lose, you would have troubles starting the car. The alternator or the battery may be doing funny things with the supply, but no other signs of this. So probably not them. It could be an intermittent fault in one of the wiring looms that the ECU is on. The P1602 code you got might indicate that this is a definite possibility. However if this is the problem, its a needle in a haystack and would probably need quite a bit of an auto sparky's time to identify the fault, if indeed there is 1 - as it starts fine 100% when restarted, I'm thinking not.

So we come back to you turning the key off!

You're not doing that - but if the switch was faulty and ECU detected that the connection to the 'Run' position dropped, it would turn the engine off. Resetting the switch by turning it to the Off, Start then Run positions again probably gets the engine running till the switch drops the Run connection again.

So, if you've read through all this drivel - I wouldn't worry about your MAF sensor (unless there are other issues) and I'd get a replacement switch for an auto sparky to fit - or have a go yourself. I'd be amazed if the switch was a part of the barrel - hopefully its a plastic block that clips on the end of the barrel.

Agreed - the MAF is certainly not the problem but a mechanical issue with the ignition switch could be

It would be nice to look and see if power to the fuel pump and or ECU goes when the car does its stopping thing

I once had a Lancia Delta that had faulty contacts in the ignition switch - opened it up and added some solder to the "bumps" and it was just fine. Took some time to arrive at the good conclusion though............

digby said:

Agreed - the MAF is certainly not the problem but a mechanical issue with the ignition switch could be

It would be nice to look and see if power to the fuel pump and or ECU goes when the car does its stopping thing

I once had a Lancia Delta that had faulty contacts in the ignition switch - opened it up and added some solder to the "bumps" and it was just fine. Took some time to arrive at the good conclusion though............

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lol, one of my Freelander's indicators only works because I've blobbed some solder over 1 of the (noncontacting) contacts!