dhse ecu swap

alarmfitter · May 29, 2012

hi can anyone tell me can i fit a used engine ecu without any coding and will my dhse start

thanks

fanatic · May 29, 2012

very doubtful

alarmfitter · May 29, 2012

i thought the imobolliser was in the becm not the engine ecu

Irishrover · May 29, 2012

The engine ecu on the diesel and the Thor V8 has a fixed code which cannot be changed. The Becm must be programmed to match the ecu.

alarmfitter · May 29, 2012

ok thanks i have an ecu fitted with a superchip so i will get it paired to my becm thanks

Irishrover · May 30, 2012

I think "ZZR1200" from Hulbridge, "Rick the Pick" or "Dougdotcom" has the full diagnostics. They should be able to read the EMS code from the engine ecu you want to fit and change the EMS stored in the Becm to suit.

Datatek · May 30, 2012

Never checked it out but have been told that the EDC handshake code is fixed and they are all the same. Only a problem if the BECM is changed as the code in the BECM is changeable so has to match the EDC.
Be interesting to know for sure.

alarmfitter · May 30, 2012

jon from london range rover is coming this morning to do it i will post the results later today

wammers · May 30, 2012

Datatek said:
Never checked it out but have been told that the EDC handshake code is fixed and they are all the same. Only a problem if the BECM is changed as the code in the BECM is changeable so has to match the EDC.
Be interesting to know for sure.

Security codes are not all the same as far as i know. When you get a new ECU before it will work, it has to be set to none robust or robust. None robust means it will work without an hand shake to BECM. Robust means it needs the BECM handshake. Once it has been set to either setting it cannot be changed.

Irishrover · May 30, 2012

wammers said:
Security codes are not all the same as far as i know. When you get a new ECU before it will work, it has to be set to none robust or robust. None robust means it will work without an hand shake to BECM. Robust means it needs the BECM hands.

I agree Wammers, that is for an off the shelf brand new one.
I understand that he has a second hand ecu that has been chipped. He will need to read the EMS from the replacement ecu and put the code into the Becm otherwise the car will not start and maybe immobilise.
I have had cases where, for some unknown reason the engine EMS has thrown a wobbly and scrambled itself into a completely different 4 figure code which caused the car not to start. The "New" EMS code was then entered into the Becm, replacing the original and it was "Job done". This always seemed tobe specific to the diesel P38

Datatek · May 30, 2012

wammers said:
Security codes are not all the same as far as i know. When you get a new ECU before it will work, it has to be set to none robust or robust. None robust means it will work without an hand shake to BECM. Robust means it needs the BECM handshake. Once it has been set to either setting it cannot be changed.

Yep I agree with that completely, but programming the code into the EDC in robust mode is a one time operation and it is then fixed. I have been told what the code is, it's quite amusing, but I have not personally checked it. Supposedly the same code went into every P38 with the M51 engine.

wammers · May 30, 2012

Datatek said:
Yep I agree with that completely, but programming the code into the EDC in robust mode is a one time operation and it is then fixed. I have been told what the code is, it's quite amusing, but I have not personally checked it. Supposedly the same code went into every P38 with the M51 engine.

PM me Keith tell me what you have been told and lets see if it's the same as mine. As far as i am aware every ECU has it's own code you don't actually input, you just set robust and it is locked for ever more. If what you say was correct every ECU would work with every BECM. Without syncing.

alarmfitter · May 30, 2012

ok jon came over with his all singing and dancing machine he read the code from both ecus we swapped them over he put the code in and both vehicles started and are doing what they are supposed to do

its not what you know its who you know

dave4x4 · May 30, 2012

The immobilisation codes are different for each ECU. I know that for a fact.
Some people have reported 4 digits, yet my original one was 3 digits long and I have a spare that is just one digit. Seems to be anything that the installer set originally, up to a maximum of 4 digits.
Also I had my ECU replaced with a brand new one a number of years ago and the garage set it up (I think with Autologic) in robust mode. It is a one-off write.
I think non-robust mode is not applicable to p38's and is only used for other makes that don't have the immob but not sure about this.

eightinavee · May 31, 2012

Wrong way around,the BECM retains the code which the EDC ECU can be set to learn. Secondhand ecu's can be synched to run in any suitable diesel P38.Even my "Useless" 9 year old Testbook happily does this.
Its the same situation with Gems and Motronic in P38's, Mems in Freelanders,Storm in Disco's and Defenders.Its only when you get to TD4 FL1 and TD6 L322's where the engine ecu has a separate,dedicated immobilisation ECU that are paired for life and cant be subbed over.

Datatek · May 31, 2012

wammers said:
PM me Keith tell me what you have been told and lets see if it's the same as mine. As far as i am aware every ECU has it's own code you don't actually input, you just set robust and it is locked for ever more. If what you say was correct every ECU would work with every BECM. Without syncing.

From other responses Tony, it sounds like the info I have is duff. I'll look it up, if I can find it, and let you know

dave4x4 · May 31, 2012

Some confusion here.

Eightinavee wrote:

Wrong way around,the BECM retains the code which the EDC ECU can be set to learn.

The immobilisation code is fixed in the Bosch EDC ECU. The learn function doesn't apply to the p38 diesel. (I think gems does use security learn but we are talking about the diesel here. I don't have a gems).

I have been testing several performance chips this past week and swapping over chips and ECU's. Each time I have been using Faultmate to set up the EMS code. It can't be altered in the EDC ECU. It is done by writing to the BECM.

I can also quote the following from the Faultmate manual:

EMS code: When the ignition is turned on, the Body Control Unit or the programmable Alarm providing it is in receipt of a recent valid mobilization code, i.e. the correct key fob has been pressed, or a correct EKA code has been entered and is therefore, not in an alarmed or immobilised state, will send a coded signal to the EDC ECU, which it then compares against a unique non changeable security code (the EDC code) it has stored in it. If the code received and the code stored compares OK, the EDC allows the engine to start. This forms the basis of the immobiliser. If the EDC ECU, the BCU or the programmable Alarm is replaced, the two codes will not match and it will not be possible to start the engine. It is therefore necessary to synchronise the codes in both the BCU/Alarm and the EDC ECU. This function reads the code from the EDC ECU but since it is not possible to change the code at this end, the code obtained from this function has to be set in the BCU/Alarm which can easily be done in the BCU settings or Security settings sections of the relevant system.

Security learn: When used in a Freelander the EDC ECU employs a different method of immobilisation and whilst the normal system used by the p38 and Discovery require the EDC ECU to be in robust mode, requiring a valid EMS mobilisation code to be sent from the BECM or Alarm, which can be read from the EDC settings page. Freelander requires the EDC to be non robust but can learn a code from the CCU which is sent when the ignition is turned on. Therefore when fitting an EDC ECU to a freelander or swapping one from another vehicle this function must be run after ECU installation and immediately after attempting to start the engine without turning off the ignition. After the function has been used re-attempt to start the engine which should then start. If it does not the ignition switch must by turned off then on again.

Also not all diesel EDC ECU's are the same. The later one's have a different plug. I think this was when EGR was introduced.

Dave

Irishrover · May 31, 2012

dave4x4 said:
Some confusion here.

Eightinavee wrote:

The immobilisation code is fixed in the Bosch EDC ECU. The learn function doesn't apply to the p38 diesel. (I think gems does use security learn but we are talking about the diesel here. I don't have a gems).

I have been testing several performance chips this past week and swapping over chips and ECU's. Each time I have been using Faultmate to set up the EMS code. It can't be altered in the EDC ECU. It is done by writing to the BECM.

I can also quote the following from the Faultmate manual:

Also not all diesel EDC ECU's are the same. The later one's have a different plug. I think this was when EGR was introduced.

Dave

:behindsofa:

Is that above not what I said !!!

dave4x4 · May 31, 2012

Yes Irishrover. You are 100% correct in what you said.

I thought Eightinavee was saying the diesel had to go through a security learn which it doesn't.

eightinavee · May 31, 2012

dave4x4 said:
Some confusion here.

Eightinavee wrote:

The immobilisation code is fixed in the Bosch EDC ECU. The learn function doesn't apply to the p38 diesel. (I think gems does use security learn but we are talking about the diesel here. I don't have a gems).

I have been testing several performance chips this past week and swapping over chips and ECU's. Each time I have been using Faultmate to set up the EMS code. It can't be altered in the EDC ECU. It is done by writing to the BECM.

I can also quote the following from the Faultmate manual:

Also not all diesel EDC ECU's are the same. The later one's have a different plug. I think this was when EGR was introduced.

Dave

No,you are wrong. Faultmate might tell you its putting the code from the edc into the becm,but its the other way round.
Let me give you an example of why.
Remove edc from car A to fit it into suspected faulting car B - car B wont go with car A's ecu till its had a security learn.Refit the ecu then after testing back into car A - and it wont go until its had a relearn.If it did then the code would be fixed in the edc ecu,but it follows that needing a relearn on going back to its original home means that the code originates in the Becm.
From memory there would be 4 basic types of edc ecu,old/late and then manual/auto.Plenty of part number rollovers using the LR part number,but I think the Bosch number stays the same.

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