Defender L663 review !

lightning · May 13, 2023

Two seats only. You can get a third centre front seat, like the TDi/TD5 Defender

They don't do a 5 seat Commercial, sadly. The 110 Commercial is still two seats again with the centre front seat option.

However there's a company (it might be Twisted or Urban) doing a conversion for the 110 to fit the second row seats, it's around £5,000

There's some law that says if it has five seats, it can only be classed as "Commercial" for company car tax/BIK purposes if it has a payload of over 1 tonne.
Which it doesn't. Maybe why they don't offer a five seat version?

This is also an issue with the Grenadier "Commercial" five seat version and the arguments are still ongoing

v8250 · May 13, 2023

lightning said:
Two seats only. You can get a third centre front seat, like the TDi/TD5 Defender

They don't do a 5 seat Commercial, sadly. The 110 Commercial is still two seats again with the centre front seat option.

However there's a company (it might be Twisted or Urban) doing a conversion for the 110 to fit the second row seats, it's around £5,000

There's some law that says if it has five seats, it can only be classed as "Commercial" for company car tax/BIK purposes if it has a payload of over 1 tonne.
Which it doesn't. Maybe why they don't offer a five seat version?

This is also an issue with the Grenadier "Commercial" five seat version and the arguments are still ongoing

Thanks @lightning , I too have been reading up on the Grenadier Commercial five seat discussion. Makes me think it's HMRC being bloody difficult again.

On my side I need a new vehicle at some stage. The Defender and Grenadier are joint first place and I want to benefit from commercial tax saved but also need a vehicle for carrying clients and material in the cargo space, I fear I'm going to be nobbled unless I buy privately and charge back to the business at full cost.

Disco1BFG · May 14, 2023

v8250 said:
Makes me think it's HMRC being bloody difficult again.

IIRC, it was a certain Gordon Brown, who changed the rulez.. before same the rules were quite simple..

I also heard that the change was done following / through lobbying - the end result being that double cab pickups became very popular more or less overnight - it was actually the reason we sold a disco 1 CDV, and got a ni$$an PU - but look how that ended - the (IMO) POS Ni$$an fell in half, and the D1 is still on the road !!

Big gubbermint meddling where they are not wanted, again. :vb-devil:

v8250 · May 14, 2023

Disco1BFG said:
IIRC, it was a certain Gordon Brown, who changed the rulez.. before same the rules were quite simple..

Big gubbermint meddling where they are not wanted, again.

yes, big gubbermint are a pain in the aris. Of course, if the population wasn't so ferkin huge we wouldn't need to be taxed at every life function/point/activity. It would be interesting to go back 30 years and compare the individual indirect taxes then compared to 2023.

It's as if every life sub-function/sub-purchase is taxed...I'm guessing big gubbermint and HMRC have teams of people [read: public servant fcukwits] who analyse every life purchase point and calc-out how they can best tax us all. Really, it's no longer fun...

lightning · May 14, 2023

You could buy a Defender 110 and get the rear seats fitted
There's a few companies offering the conversion now, this is one of the more comprehensive ones.

DEFENDER HARD TOP UPGRADES

LAND ROVER DEFENDER COMMERCIAL HARD TOP REAR SEAT CONVERSION AND FURTHER UPGRADES

www.wcsdesign.co.uk

Or get the Grenadier 5-seat and just charge the business for use of it, l think it's 40p per mile.

v8250 · May 15, 2023

lightning said:
Or get the Grenadier 5-seat and just charge the business for use of it, l think it's 40p per mile.

I charge fuel to the business and clients at flat rate, i.e. whatever it costs, it costs. HMRC figures/rates are at least 12years out of date

lightning · May 15, 2023

At 40p per mile and (say) 25mpg you're claiming £10 per gallon which is still okay.

What it doesn't cover is associated running costs such as depreciation, repairs, insurance etc

lightning · May 15, 2023

LATEST UPDATE

Fitted side steps, it absolutely needs them if you aren't 6ft tall.
Particularly with the coil springs

EASY TO FIT?

No

GO ON

You're supposed to pull all the plastic sills and trim off, to fit the smaller side bolts to the brackets. Doing this breaks all the clips and they all need replacing

AND....

l didn't bother, the two big bolts in each bracket hold the side steps fine, so long as you don't weigh 500lbs or want to use them as rock sliders

HOW MUCH THEN?

Land Rover want £850 for the side steps lol
Forget it
l bought mine second hand

tottot · May 16, 2023

Second hand already! did someone purchase a set of steps, read the instructions about removing all the plastic?

and gave up.
Did not take the practical step like you.

lightning · May 16, 2023

Possibly, the owner bought the side steps new "take off" but then sold the vehicle without getting around to fitting them.

lightning · Jun 17, 2023

JUNE UPDATE

HOW DOES THE NEW DEFENDER COMPARE WITH THE OLD ONE TO LOOK AT.

From the side is the best view, the silhouette is pretty good lMO, you've got the barrel sides, the plastic door handles, wing air intake, Wheel arch plastic trim, steel wheels, alpine windows, fairly upright screen, rear mounted spare, side steps, traditional mud flaps, and wing mirrors.

From the rear, not bad, there's at least a nod to the original rear lights with no silly patterned reflectors, flat back with side opening door, substantial recovery eyes, spare wheel obviously, and again the barrel sides with roofline

From the front, not so good. Although here in basic trim it looks nice enough, l can't see much "Defender" here except for the bonnet bulge and flat front, and possibly the wing mirrors. lf only they'd somehow put a larger rectangular black slatted grille on it would have made a real difference.
The round headlights are supposed to be as original but they should have been fully round IMO.

Oh and it's got a traditional LAND ROVER badge....for now at least

The lamp guards are something l fitted myself l've not seen another one with them. l think they look the part but l seem to be in the minority.

johnlad · Jun 18, 2023

I hated the new defender when seeing the pictures leaked during its development through to its launch, but as time gone on it’s grown on me to the point that the Discovery 5 is going and I collect a new 110 towards the end of July.

lightning · Jun 18, 2023

The 110 is great, sadly l couldn't afford one.

l think the rear seats fold completely flat in the 110 but they don't in the 90.

Mine had to be a Commercial Vehicle though.

lightning · Aug 8, 2023

AUGUST UPDATE

HOW'S THE NEW LAND ROVER

Well, it's still fine, no issues at all except the wipers started juddering and needed replacing.

Land Rover wanted £70 for a pair so l fitted alternative which cost £20

NOTHING ELSE?

No. Done 6,000 miles
There was a recall for a hose that was rubbing, l booked it in but it came back no different.
Just with a new hose.
There was a modified air intake canister they were supposed to fit. l bought the part and fitted it myself.

Still a 12-18 month waiting list for the Commercial version, so WBAC are still offering list price for my 2022

There's a company offering a bulkhead delete for the 110 Commercial, and one for the 90 to come later in 2023.

You can also get a aftermarket rear seat conversion for the 110 Commercial, with the 90 version again promised later in 2023.

THIS IS ALL A BIT BORING IS THERE ANYTHING MORE INTERESTING TO REPORT?

No.

The vehicle has been totally reliable and is great to drive.

l'll update if anything happens worth posting on here.

300bhp/ton · Aug 9, 2023

lightning said:
There's a company offering a bulkhead delete for the 110 Commercial, and one for the 90 to come later in 2023.

What sort of bulkhead is removed? Do you have a link at all. Thanks.

johnlad · Aug 9, 2023

I collected my 110 a couple of weeks ago, D300 mild hybrid, got to say it’s fantastic to drive, feels much more planted than the D5 it replaced, that could be due to the adaptive dampers I chose as an option. Also went for the explorer pack and locking rear diff.

lightning · Aug 9, 2023

300bhp/ton said:
What sort of bulkhead is removed? Do you have a link at all. Thanks.

The Commercial version has a full bulkhead behind the front seats with a mesh window

The delete kit removes this completely and has a small lip at the back of the load area to stop things sliding into the seats when you brake.

MUD Defender Hardtop Bulkhead Delete Kit 2020+ (L663)

Removing the full-height bulkhead panel from the L663 Defender 90 and 110 ‘Hardtop’ van model is a popular modification, but with the factory bulkhead panel removed from the vehicle, it leaves the area behind the seats looking crude and unfinished.Our MUD Bulkhead Delete Kit cleans up the front...

www.mudstuff.co.uk

You can also get a rear seat conversion, but it's not cheap.

New Land Rover Defender (2020 onwards) L663 - Rear Seat Conversion for Hard Top Commercial

Temporary M1 Tested and Certified Rear Seat Conversion for the new Land Rover 110 and 90 series Defender Commercial - 2020 onwards. Our crash tested conversion kit comprises of a 3 person seat with three point seat belts and centre lap belt.

www.sterling-automotive.co.uk

300bhp/ton · Aug 9, 2023

Thanks for the clarification. Guess it is more of a partition than a true bulkhead.

lightning · Aug 9, 2023

The original as fitted is a true bulkhead. lt's steel framed and very solid. lt has to be, for the vehicle to be classified as a "Commercial Vehicle" by HMRC

Although easy to remove if you wanted to, it's bolted in. Takes two people to lift it out though.

lightning · Sep 13, 2023

SEPTEMBER UPDATE

The Defender is still performing well, it's now on 7,500 miles.
The vehicle is quite wide. This is a problem on some farm tracks and unmade single track roads l have to drive down.

l've had a few scratches from bushes etc at the sides of the road, but the scratches seem to polish out okay.

This was one of the good things about the old Defender it was quite narrow so fitted better down narrow tracks.

ANY FAULTS OR ISSUES?

No.

We've been on a few caravan holidays and probably towed the 'van around 600 miles in total.
l can't fault the towing performance, it's solid as a rock.

The vehicle feels tough, and inspires confidence, although if l was going to Africa l would take an old model Defender rather than this one. l just think the old one is more fit for purpose.

ANYTHING YOU WOULD CHANGE?

Actually no. Although l would have gone for manual transmission had it been available.

Defender L663 review !

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