Defender 200Tdi 90 1993 - 20yr old fuel in tank

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If the fuel pumps out clean at the filter with the lift pump I would think it is fine. 20 years ago fuel had anti bug additive as standard but in recent times the makers stopped doing that to save [ make more ] money and passing te problem on to the user.:mad::eek: My 200 has drain plug in front of rear wheel.
 
tottot said:
If the fuel pumps out clean at the filter with the lift pump I would think it is fine. 20 years ago fuel had anti bug additive as standard but in recent times the makers stopped doing that to save [ make more ] money and passing te problem on to the user.:mad::eek: My 200 has drain plug in front of rear wheel.
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Yes the diesel looks fine, when I put on a new fuel filter I used the lift pump to prime the new filter and the fuel looked fine. When I connected the battery and turned the key, the fuel gage indicated over half a tank, so there’s a bit in there ! I’ll have another look on the fuel tank, tbh the tank looks like it’s got a protective shield around it but I’ll get under and have another look for the drain plug.
Now to locate the starter motor in the engine bay ?? and see what’s happening with the connections, hopefully it’ll be just a squirt of contact cleaner or possibly a new starter motor needed .
 
tottot said:
A treatment biocide can be added to the fuel to kill/clear the bug. [ think they would have needed buckets of it to sort that boat though.]
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The FAST Exocet I linked to above is about £30 for a litre, which treats 2000 litres of derv - so only a little bucket ;);) - possibly best to filter some of the sh*t out first though..

When we got "infected" :confused: - the plastic tanks on stuff just needed steaming out - steel tanks on a digger and a little tractor (FE35) survived being steamed, but one tractor with a steel tank had to have a new one, which at £450 made me wince a bit.. :mad:.
 
Captainflint1967 said:
Now to locate the starter motor in the engine bay ?? and see what’s happening with the connections, hopefully it’ll be just a squirt of contact cleaner or possibly a new starter motor needed .
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Get yourself a copy of RAVE ( search on here ) - it'll tell you everything you need to know :)

More than likely a faulty earth - look for green crusties or the solenoid needs a bit of percussive maintenance! - I.E. a clout wiv LR special tool #1 :D
 
Where can I check for a faulty earth - somewhere on the engine block ?
I looked at the starter motor ( with a mirror) and all wires appear to be in place, though I haven’t tried to ‘short ‘ them with a screwdriver or put 12v to the starter motor externally to get it working. It’s located in a very tight place for sure !

Do you think it could be a problem at the ignition switch end of things ? In the Haynes manual it states that if you can get full beam on the lights and the lights don’t dim as you try to start then it’s a problem with the ignition switch - which is what I’m experiencing - but how accurate is Haynes ? . How would I even start to get at the ignition switch to check ? Aren’t they ‘thief’ protected ? Which parts do I dismantle to get at the ignition switch, are they easy to replace ?
Sorry for all the questions but I’m just a beginner in this world of Landrover mechanics !

All suggestions very welcome as this one is beyond my knowledge by a long way !
 
Captainflint1967 said:
Where can I check for a faulty earth - somewhere on the engine block ?
I looked at the starter motor ( with a mirror) and all wires appear to be in place, though I haven’t tried to ‘short ‘ them with a screwdriver or put 12v to the starter motor externally to get it working. It’s located in a very tight place for sure !

Do you think it could be a problem at the ignition switch end of things ? In the Haynes manual it states that if you can get full beam on the lights and the lights don’t dim as you try to start then it’s a problem with the ignition switch - which is what I’m experiencing - but how accurate is Haynes ? . How would I even start to get at the ignition switch to check ? Aren’t they ‘thief’ protected ? Which parts do I dismantle to get at the ignition switch, are they easy to replace ?
Sorry for all the questions but I’m just a beginner in this world of Landrover mechanics !

All suggestions very welcome as this one is beyond my knowledge by a long way !
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Ok, first thing I would do is test the starter solenoid circuit under load.. to do this you (obviously) need to connect a load to the circuit instead of the solenoid - a headlamp bulb is ideal - 55W will draw about 4A ( ish ), and if it lights that when you "start" the "car", then the circuit is good.. ( one side of the bulb to the spade connector off the starter - other side to a know good earth .. ).

It's worth making a few wander leads up out of appropriate single core cable to be able to do these tests.. One of the most useful is a cable long enough to reach everywhere on the vehicle from the battery - you can then use this to substitute either a power, or a ground as appropriate..

A good alternative, is to purchase a "Power Probe" type instrument - which can do the same thing, but will cost a bit more :D

Haynes manuals are Ok, but RAVE is better, ( its genuine LR ), and free - search on here for the download link.
 
Your starter relay could be knackered, think it's located behind the lower part of dash area (think there's 3 switches, interior light maybe?) I made my own dash and moved all the electrics to under the bonnet so not 100% where it is.
I had to replace the ignition switch on mine as one of the terminals had burnt out somehow.
 
The electrics in 90's in general were pretty poor - largely due to the Prince of Darkness.. ( LUCAS )

Ignition switches / light switches etc .. quite poor :rolleyes:

Though, TBF, it wasn't entirely their fault - the bean counters at LR probably only wanted to pay 10p per component, when an 80p component was necessary to do the job properly !! :D
 
Pull the small feed wire off the starter put a multi meter on it do you get 12v when the key is held in start position?
 
I'd have drained the tank.

I've just got our 110 back on the road, last filled up with diesel in 2015. Stuff in the tank was like brown syrup.

Easy enough to drain, I just pulled the bolt out of the bottom of the tank.

Filled it with fresh fuel, pumped it though the lines, before connecting them to the filter (new). New lift pump also.

I then cracked off the injector unions and tuned over the engine in bursts (so as not to cook the starter) before I got bored and connected it all up.

When it started the idle was very lumpy, and revving it didn't return it to idle well.

Was messing about with it when it just started revving up hugely, like a diesel run-away, smoking out the back etc.

I was going for the ignition when it all just recovered itself and it fell back to a nice stable idle, and there have been no issues since (the car is now back on the road, but this was only a couple of months back)

I'm told that the governor can become stuck on unused IPs and I suspect this was the case with this one, and the scary high revving probably freed it up and all was good again.
 
Disco1BFG said:
Ok, first thing I would do is test the starter solenoid circuit under load.. to do this you (obviously) need to connect a load to the circuit instead of the solenoid - a headlamp bulb is ideal - 55W will draw about 4A ( ish ), and if it lights that when you "start" the "car", then the circuit is good.. ( one side of the bulb to the spade connector off the starter - other side to a know good earth .. ).

It's worth making a few wander leads up out of appropriate single core cable to be able to do these tests.. One of the most useful is a cable long enough to reach everywhere on the vehicle from the battery - you can then use this to substitute either a power, or a ground as appropriate..

A good alternative, is to purchase a "Power Probe" type instrument - which can do the same thing, but will cost a bit more :D

Haynes manuals are Ok, but RAVE is better, ( its genuine LR ), and free - search on here for the download link.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the information, very much appreciated.
I’ve created a few ‘wander leads ‘ as you’ve suggested , with croc clips and bulb and 7m of solid core wire too. ( also ordered a voltage checker / power probe type thing from Amazon but still waiting for that to arrive). The new battery I’ve bought is a big lump (small van size - so plenty of ‘juice’). The question is though , how do I get to the back of the ‘starter’ at the keys end to check the circuit, some have mentioned a relay in there too somewhere, which one would that be ( should I just replace them all anyway for good housekeeping? ) .. which ones to replace with ? … I’m new to all this so please bare with me as I’m still learning ! Thanks for you time, much appreciated !
 
steve24v said:
Your starter relay could be knackered, think it's located behind the lower part of dash area (think there's 3 switches, interior light maybe?) I made my own dash and moved all the electrics to under the bonnet so not 100% where it is.
I had to replace the ignition switch on mine as one of the terminals had burnt out somehow.
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Thank you for your information, much appreciated ! What type of relays should I purchase to replace them all.. can’t find the yellow ones or any data regarding them… How do I replace the ignition switch ? Sorry for all the questions but I’m a beginner at this and trying to get up to speed quickly, thanks for your time and patience !
 
Disco1BFG said:
The electrics in 90's in general were pretty poor - largely due to the Prince of Darkness.. ( LUCAS )

Ignition switches / light switches etc .. quite poor :rolleyes:

Though, TBF, it wasn't entirely their fault - the bean counters at LR probably only wanted to pay 10p per component, when an 80p component was necessary to do the job properly !! :D
Click to expand...
Thank you for your time and response, really appreciated ! I should perhaps replace them all - would you know what types I need and how to get at the starter in the ignition ? Again apologies for all the questions but I’m learning as quickly as possible;) !
 
julianf said:
I'd have drained the tank.

I've just got our 110 back on the road, last filled up with diesel in 2015. Stuff in the tank was like brown syrup.

Easy enough to drain, I just pulled the bolt out of the bottom of the tank.

Filled it with fresh fuel, pumped it though the lines, before connecting them to the filter (new). New lift pump also.

I then cracked off the injector unions and tuned over the engine in bursts (so as not to cook the starter) before I got bored and connected it all up.

When it started the idle was very lumpy, and revving it didn't return it to idle well.

Was messing about with it when it just started revving up hugely, like a diesel run-away, smoking out the back etc.

I was going for the ignition when it all just recovered itself and it fell back to a nice stable idle, and there have been no issues since (the car is now back on the road, but this was only a couple of months back)

I'm told that the governor can become stuck on unused IPs and I suspect this was the case with this one, and the scary high revving probably freed it up and all was good again.
Click to expand...
I haven’t started her up yet ( due to the issues with the stater motor etc. So I think I will drain the lot (resident fuel) out of the tank as you’ve suggested - best to be safe than sorry just for a few litres of ‘fuel’. The lift pump you refer to, is that the manual pump to prime the fuel filter or another pump entirely ? I’ve put on a new fuel filter filled with fresh diesel and primmed. The ‘governor’ on the IP ? not sure what this is - again I’m new to this , so bare with me I’m just a newbie at Landrover maintenance :) Also what is the purpose of ‘cracking off the injector unions’ ? Is that to lubricate the pistons etc prior to actually starting the engine ? Many thanks again for your input, much appreciated !!
 
Don't worry about asking questions, we all have to start somewhere. I would do what haza88 said first by checking the little exciter wire on the starter motor, think its a spade connector so should just pull off. Put the red probe (on your voltage meter when you get it) in to the wire and black probe to a good earth and get someone to turn the key to start and see what the voltage reads. For now though you could just make up a long wire with a female spade connector on one end to go on to starter motor and leave the other end bare wire and touch the positive terminal on battery, this should crank the engine over and bypass all the electric system and prove if the starter motor is working. Make sure the engine earth's are clean too (incase no one else has suggested that).
Don't bother buying everything, you might not need it
 
steve24v said:
Don't worry about asking questions, we all have to start somewhere. I would do what haza88 said first by checking the little exciter wire on the starter motor, think its a spade connector so should just pull off. Put the red probe (on your voltage meter when you get it) in to the wire and black probe to a good earth and get someone to turn the key to start and see what the voltage reads. For now though you could just make up a long wire with a female spade connector on one end to go on to starter motor and leave the other end bare wire and touch the positive terminal on battery, this should crank the engine over and bypass all the electric system and prove if the starter motor is working. Make sure the engine earth's are clean too (incase no one else has suggested that).
Don't bother buying everything, you might not need it
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Right thank you … I’ll get that setup and tested , see what happens.
Regarding to the relays, Paddocks sell some ‘better improved’ replacements , are they worth getting anyway just to rule those out ? Can’t see any of the old yellow versions…. ? TBH I don’t know what type I’m looking for….Same for the starter switch or ignition lock ?
Also Paddocks have two starter motors available on their website : one is a cheaper, larger Britpart version and the other is an OEM ‘Hella’ motor, smaller version : any preferences between the two ? I’ve read that Britpart isn’t always good quality ??? Thank you for your time !
 
Captainflint1967 said:
Jeez…that’s sounds terrifying ! Definitely don’t want that to happen….thanks for the information, really appreciated !
I’m going to drain the tank and see what comes out… but I’m still looking for a drain plug on my 90. Did Landrover ever put in ‘non’ drainable fuel tanks ?
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Yes pretty sure it would be terrifying if you needed the coastguard to come rescue your 90!!!
I thought all tanks had a drain plug
 
Captainflint1967 said:
I haven’t started her up yet ( due to the issues with the stater motor etc. So I think I will drain the lot (resident fuel) out of the tank as you’ve suggested - best to be safe than sorry just for a few litres of ‘fuel’. The lift pump you refer to, is that the manual pump to prime the fuel filter or another pump entirely ? I’ve put on a new fuel filter filled with fresh diesel and primmed. The ‘governor’ on the IP ? not sure what this is - again I’m new to this , so bare with me I’m just a newbie at Landrover maintenance :) Also what is the purpose of ‘cracking off the injector unions’ ? Is that to lubricate the pistons etc prior to actually starting the engine ? Many thanks again for your input, much appreciated !!
Click to expand...

Lift pump is the thing on the side of the engine with the lever on it. If yours is still working great, but it's uncommon that they survive for that long anyway, hence me replacing mine. Or I may even have robbed it for another motor in an emergency, I can't remember.

If you do need to remove it on a vehical that has been stood for as long as yours, get the more expensive Delphi one rather than a cheaper britpart. The Delphi ones have an accessible pre filter in their top, which might be avantageous if the inside of your fuel tank is a bit lumpy.

The governor is part of the injection pump. I won't pretend I know anything about the one in the pump but they generally work by somthing spinning about and controlling fueling. A stabilising device. Again I know nothing about the inside of the pump but I have been told the stick on long stood pumps and that would fit with the symptoms I saw with mine.

I cracked the injectors on mine as I knew the fuel was bad, and I was trying (probably largely unsuccessfully) to clean the fuel through the injection pump without the goo running through the injectors and screwing them up. The trouble with this plan is that the injection pump holds a fair bit of fuel and getting all that flushed without just burning up the starter motor takes a lot of patience.

You may be fine with your fuel. Or you may not. Sounds like it's better than mine anyway!
 
Captainflint1967 said:
How do I replace the ignition switch ?
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I replaced the whole lot with new key, but you can just replace the end part with the connectors (couldn't tell you how though, might just pull off maybe)
images.jpeg

Have to take off plastic cowl by undoing the screws on bottom half (think there's 3 in total, look underneath just behind steering wheel).
You should now be able to see the ignition switch, it's held on by a clamp that wraps round the steering column using shear bolts so you won't be able to undo it using a socket/spanner, can drill them out or do what I did and use a grinder. It's made out of aluminium so a hacksaw blade would do if access is tight. I used normal bolts when I replaced mine incase I needed to take it back off, think they are 8mm thread.
The starter relay is probably behind the fuse panel in front of the gearstick. Remove the black panel and undo the 2 nuts or bolts that hold the fuse carrier on and it should be one of the relays on the back. Not sure what colour yours would be (likely yellow) mine was an electroplated metal housed one (1988 year).
As for starter motor if you need it, get oem, stay away from britpart. I mistakingly purchased a britpart ignition switch, although it worked you had to hold the key in the right place to start it.
 

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