D2 TD5 PAS steering box replacement

SteveG4TRA · Jul 20, 2018

I want to try and stop a loss of fluid from my steering box on my 2003 ACE fitted 2.5 TDI. I am struggling to get the underside plastic shield off to view the offending item. Having seen a great article recently: Disco TD5 PAS Box Replacement - LR4x4 - The Land Rover Forum for some reason I seem to be unable to download it now. I receive the message
403 ERROR
The request could not be satisfied.
In fact I get this message on all pages on the LR4x4 Forum.

As the Rave manual is less than detailed regarding this aspect of getting to the steering box can any member help me?
Steve

sierrafery · Jul 20, 2018

Th link works OK for me... maybe you have to be registered or disable some blocker, i dont know

derwendolly · Jul 20, 2018

Works for me, too.
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/32377-disco-td5-pas-box-replacement/
Just had a look and it is so detailed WITH PICTURES

that even I think I could have a go ..... and that's saying something!!!!

SteveG4TRA · Jul 20, 2018

derwendolly said:
Works for me, too.
https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/32377-disco-td5-pas-box-replacement/
Just had a look and it is so detailed WITH PICTURES that even I think I could have a go ..... and that's saying something!!!!

Thanks for the replies guys. On Facebook it says: LR4x4 is undergoing a upgrade, so might be offline for a little while. this was dated 12th July, but if you are both getting in OK then (and not accessing cache files then I guess the problems my end. Not have any issues with any other web site though. Any chance of PDFing the article and sending it to me at [email protected] please?

sierrafery · Jul 20, 2018

I sent you a mail

derwendolly · Jul 20, 2018

Stevehh said:
. Any chance of PDFing the article and sending it to me at [email protected] please?

I would if I knew how!!

meego · Jul 20, 2018

Jack it up on the chassis as high as you can get it. let the axle hang and that will let you push the engine pan back enough to get the PAS box out. To remove it I think you need to take the cross member off, but not necessary for this job. I'm on my 4th box and changed them all myself.

SteveG4TRA · Jul 20, 2018

meego said:
Jack it up on the chassis as high as you can get it. let the axle hang and that will let you push the engine pan back enough to get the PAS box out. To remove it I think you need to take the cross member off, but not necessary for this job. I'm on my 4th box and changed them all myself.

That's great info, thanks. I'm axle standing is on the front axle, no wonder I couldn't get the undertray off !
Thanks for the PDF I have the article now and will give it a go

meego · Jul 20, 2018

Stevehh said:
That's great info, thanks. I'm axle standing is on the front axle, no wonder I couldn't get the undertray off !
Thanks for the PDF I have the article now and will give it a go

u
That's what LZ is all about mate. There's always someone done the job before you that can pass on some info. Remember and undo the fixings on the pipes on the front cross member. That lets them move enough to get the box out.

ifloochies · Jul 22, 2018

Was wondering what the fuss is about, considering it's been a straightforward, relatively easy job to do in the two times I've had to do it...then I realised that driving on the wrong side of the road, the ones you lot got are buried away under a load of stuff that need to come out first. Driving on the 'right' side of the road does have its advantages!

Beneagles · Jul 22, 2018

meego said:
. I'm on my 4th box and changed them all myself.

There's something about that statement......

SteveG4TRA · Jul 23, 2018

meego said:
u
That's what LZ is all about mate. There's always someone done the job before you that can pass on some info. Remember and undo the fixings on the pipes on the front cross member. That lets them move enough to get the box out.

Thanks Meego. I now have the PAS box in view. As the loss was so slow: 1mm in the reservoir a month (don't do many miles) and there is a general coating of oil all around the box area, to clean it all up, reconnect the battery and run the car. That way I could confirm it's the PAS box and not something else. I don't want to replace the PAS box unnecessarily. I guess the box can only leak from the input output shaft seals, fluid in an out pipes on the top and maybe gaskets in the adjuster area? Anyway the MOT tester seemed to think it was the box. The vehicle has 98K miles on the clock and the box is an Adwest which I think is the original. What do you think?

derwendolly · Jul 23, 2018

Stevehh said:
Thanks Meego. I now have the PAS box in view. As the loss was so slow: 1mm in the reservoir a month (don't do many miles) and there is a general coating of oil all around the box area, to clean it all up, reconnect the battery and run the car. That way I could confirm it's the PAS box and not something else. I don't want to replace the PAS box unnecessarily. I guess the box can only leak from the input output shaft seals, fluid in an out pipes on the top and maybe gaskets in the adjuster area? Anyway the MOT tester seemed to think it was the box. The vehicle has 98K miles on the clock and the box is an Adwest which I think is the original. What do you think?

Strange you should say that about the MOT. I had the same comment and my mechanic disagrees as he believes it is just the residual oil from him changing the Pump. I know nothing, I have to rely on those who do, but after 5 more months there is no evidence of any leakage on the ground. Mine has now done 253,000 miles!

meego · Jul 23, 2018

Stevehh said:
Thanks Meego. I now have the PAS box in view. As the loss was so slow: 1mm in the reservoir a month (don't do many miles) and there is a general coating of oil all around the box area, to clean it all up, reconnect the battery and run the car. That way I could confirm it's the PAS box and not something else. I don't want to replace the PAS box unnecessarily. I guess the box can only leak from the input output shaft seals, fluid in an out pipes on the top and maybe gaskets in the adjuster area? Anyway the MOT tester seemed to think it was the box. The vehicle has 98K miles on the clock and the box is an Adwest which I think is the original. What do you think?

If its leaking, its almost certainly the output seal (bottom seal at the steering arm). Oil can get blown about and cover the general area where its leaking. If its only losing the amount you suggest, I would tend to run for a while longer. You could put some Lucas seal stop in the tank, but that would only be temporary fix.

derwendolly said:
Strange you should say that about the MOT. I had the same comment and my mechanic disagrees as he believes it is just the residual oil from him changing the Pump. I know nothing, I have to rely on those who do, but after 5 more months there is no evidence of any leakage on the ground. Mine has now done 253,000 miles!

The box is on one side of the vehicle and the pump is nearer the other side. The PAS fluid could travel along the pipes I suppose, but doubtful.

derwendolly · Jul 23, 2018

meego said:
The box is on one side of the vehicle and the pump is nearer the other side. The PAS fluid could travel along the pipes I suppose, but doubtful.

After a big leak(!) I suppose the fluid could have gone anywhere!! I do, however trust my mechanic who I have used for a long time and who was recommended to me by my previous (now retired) mechanic rather than the MOT people. And the fact that there is no leak now does give me more confidence in the mechanics point of view. But then, what do I know!!

SteveG4TRA · Jul 23, 2018

derwendolly said:
After a big leak(!) I suppose the fluid could have gone anywhere!! I do, however trust my mechanic who I have used for a long time and who was recommended to me by my previous (now retired) mechanic rather than the MOT people. And the fact that there is no leak now does give me more confidence in the mechanics point of view. But then, what do I know!!

OK guys the plot thickens!
With the area all cleaned up and the battery back in, I ran the D2 up and gave the steering a good old waggle. Underneath not a sign of PAS oil from either input or output shafts or any part of the PAS box, as dry as my front lawn. Just the smallest misting from the front of the alternator though.
However all became apparent whereabouts the oil was coming from as very slowly a dribble of oil (engine) ran down an aluminium bracket arrangement at the back and under the alternator and with the fan running on the car deposited it on to the PAS box.
Now I am getting a bit lost as I cannot see in Rave what happens around here, however I do know that the alternator has a vacuum pump on the front of it with an oil supply from the block. What this is for I havent a clue.
I suspect I am in the right area to find the source of this engine oil leak but need your help to point me right to it please

)

jamesmartin · Jul 23, 2018

if alt bearings get any play vac pump will pour oil through and about the alt,pas pump pipes at pump often weep pas oil

SteveG4TRA · Jul 23, 2018

jamesmartin said:
if alt bearings get any play vac pump will pour oil through and about the alt,pas pump pipes at pump often weep pas oil

Thanks James. OK the PAS pipes at pump are dry, no problem there. I now understand purpose of vacuum pump (feeds brake vacuum chamber) and the oil feed I guess lubricates the internal vanes. The unit under the alternator is the pulley tensioner I think. So, I gave the oil pipe into the vacuum pump a good look over, cleaned it and gave it a little nip with a 12mm socket. It was fairly oily round there and I am wondering if this is the source. Ran engine for 15 mins and all seems dry. However does the pump have an internal oil gasket or is the gasket to the alternator body?

sierrafery · Jul 24, 2018

That banjo on the feed pipe has copper crush washers both sides, maybe start by replacing those, p/n ADU6847L, also there is an o-ring between the vacuum pump and alternator, you can see it's place in the pic of the fubar pump below but unfortunately it's not available as spare and i couldn't find any info about it so if the leak will continue you'll have to remove the pump and measure it.... mine is also wet in that area and i'm sure it's the o-ring but i wasn't man enough to ''attack'' it untill now especially that i'm a bit scared when it comes to spannering

SteveG4TRA · Jul 24, 2018

sierrafery said:
That banjo on the feed pipe has copper crush washers both sides, maybe start by replacing those, p/n ADU6847L, also there is an o-ring between the vacuum pump and alternator, you can see it's place in the pic of the fubar pump below but unfortunately it's not available as spare and i couldn't find any info about it so if the leak will continue you'll have to remove the pump and measure it.... mine is also wet in that area and i'm sure it's the o-ring but i wasn't man enough to ''attack'' it untill now especially that i'm a bit scared when it comes to spannering

View attachment 154042

Thanks Sierrasafery.
I think it would be a good idea to remove the alternator and have a look. Dont fancy paying £150 for a replacement alternator if its an O ring problem. However I have seen pictures of other O rings including seals around the fixing bolls too. Also shaft seals from Denzo and Toyota so maybe a new alternator plus pump is the best way to go.
So how easy (difficult) is it to get the alternator off the vehicle. I have ordered viscous fan spanner have read Rave, but are there any tricks I should know please?
Steve

D2 TD5 PAS steering box replacement

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