Considering converting S1 to TDI?

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I ain't moaning just voicing an opinion..

Sure you can up rate the brakes..

Put a Derv in it or some V8 and you'll have a rather drafty and fast S1.

At that point you can lower it, and turn it into a flat rod..

Larry_Chen_Speedhunters_48_Land_Rover_london-3-1200x800.jpg
 
Hi Mike ,

First off , congratulations for owning one the most useful and practical of all Series Ones , namely a long wheel base , hopefully a 107” . I have read through the other replies to your question and there is some useful advice to be found in them , so I thought I would add my contribution . First off , I would go along to here http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php and search out all the TDI conversions that have been discussed there . Like here , you will find those people who think doing anything to a Series One that wasn’t done when they were made , sacrilegious and will devalue them and should be punishable by death , blah blah blah . Pay them no heed , as has been said it is your Land Rover to do what you wish with . In particular search out Dale Radford’s 300 TDI conversion into his 107” station wagon . He spent a lot of time and effort into that restoration , but he is a clever and talented chap .

Search out on YouTube Steven Patchett’s Team Faff videos of his various trips with his mates around Europe and the UK in his 200Tdi powered 80” . Very inspiring , and well put together videos . Here’s one to get you started

Three more websites ( if you are not familiar with them )

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/
http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/200di.htm
https://www.steveparkers.com/conversions/

Long wheel based Series Ones were made for one job and that was to work , which many of them did and were worked to death , as a result they are definitely not as common as the short ones , however , in order to keep them running all sorts of modifications were done to them , engine changes being one of the most common . So if it means keeping yours going for a few more years then putting a TDI into is certainly an option , and one I considered for my own 107” . In the end I put the 2 1/4 ACR breathed on petrol engine that I had in my 86” into it , and it is working well . It can certainly keep up with modern traffic , but obviously at the expense of economy .

Putting a TDI into a Series One has been done loads of times , though I believe there is more work involved putting a 300 in than a 200 . These engines are getting harder to get hold of as they have been snapped up by people putting them into their Series Land Rovers , so finding one might be your first challenge .

If you do put one in then decent sound proofing and the correct engine mounts would be vital , as has been said they are very noisy . Changing gearboxes , axles and brakes would be dependent on how you drive it as you certainly have more power at your disposal . There are converted Series Ones still on their original brakes and axles with seemingly no problems , but I am not able to point you towards any at the moment . As yours is a LWB it already has 11” brakes which may be enough . A disc brake conversion might be necessary but you wouldn’t really know until you started driving it .

I would think fitting an overdrive would be a wise move , even better if you could stretch to a Roamerdrive , but at the thick end of £2,000 , they are not cheap .

Power steering on a LWB would make driving it a lot nicer , but not essential . You will , of course , be aware that the more changes you make to it the greater chance that it won’t meet the new(ish) rules from the DVLA .

Putting a V8 into it would make it no less economical than a standard 2 1/4 petrol but a lot more powerful and sounding great . Worth considering if you are not doing too great a mileage .

Ford V6s and Perkins Prima diesels used to be popular conversions but these engines are more scarce than TDI s so probably not worth considering .

Don’t be conned into thinking that Series Ones are rare , they are not . There are probably more on the road now than there were 20 or 30 years ago . In fact Series Twos are rarer as they were only made for 3 years .

As for devaluing your “investment” , forget it , whatever you do to it won’t reduce it’s value . LWBs are the least expensive of all Series Ones (but most useful) and it looks as if the market has peaked and prices are on the way down again . By steadily modifying my 107” over the last 6 years I have been reducing it value annually , but increasing it’s usability and usefulness .

At risk of boring people who have seen my 107”” loads of times before here is a picture of it in it present form as a trayback . Which is much heavier than it was with a normal rear body but now with it’s replacement engine it can keep up with modern traffic .



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I have been critical and I think behind that is what happend to the 2 door Range Rovers, there was time when it was trendy to get one and cut it up for off road or chop a series and put the body on a short wheel base Rangie chassis. Now all those vehicles are dogs or scrapped and the surviving 2 door Rangies are £20k I beleive that's where we are with TDIs, and "uprating" series, the shine will come off and there will be a lot of people chasing after a limited stock of original parts when they want to sell. You now see the smart ones sold with all the orginal parts and a statement that all the mods can be reversed. The smart thing to do now is buy every 2 1/4 petrol engine that comes up and wait.
 
You’re a constructive lot.

Brakes can be uprated - discs fitted?

Steering can be uprated - anything can be done with time and effort, and done well and safely.

I came for a little advice, it is my car and I believe that means I can do what I want to it?

If I’d wanted to be moaned at, I’d have spoken to the wife about it.
This is a friends 80" S1. He has owned the vehicle since he was 18 and the vehicle is the same age as him.

It is running a 3.5 RV8 on twin SU's. Witha few other mods, but it's still very much S1 Land Rover. It looks fab and he uses it loads still. We go green laning annually and with the V8 he has no issues keeping up with the 90's on the trip.





It also sounds unbelievable good too.

There is no issues with handling or braking, it's as good as any other Series Land Rover.


I have another friend with an 80", they put a Tdi in it. It went ok, but was a bone shaker. They have since pulled it and put a V8 in it.

If you want to go diesel, yes a Tdi (200 at least) is a very swap into pretty much any Series. Although I think the extra effort fitting a Td5 might well be worth while if budget isn't a concern. I'm not sure how easy if at all possible it is to mount a Td5 to a Series gearbox though. Swapping in an R380 and LT230 would be the obvious answer, but is a huge amount more work and will likely result in the need for custom prop shafts too.

And as mentioned previously, the L-Series is a lovely engine. Easily tweaked to 120hp+ and lighter, smoother and less noisy than a Tdi. You'd have to R&D it, but I think the way to fit would be to use the bellhousing from a Discovery MPI as the L-Series shares the same bolt pattern as the T-Series. But this would also mean R380 and LT230 swap.

Lots of options with the axles. I think S2 onwards are slightly wider so could be an option and lots of different disc brake upgrade options. Or go for coil axles, but you'll probably need to add Defender style wheel spats.


If you want really modern and a bigger project. A p38 Range Rover has a 108" wheelbase. It really wouldn't be that difficult to mount the 107 body onto the p38 chassis. With some thought I'm sure you could retain the air suspension and have the choice of 5 speed manual or automatic gearboxes and V8 for BMW 2.5 diesel engines. The only issue doing this would be the registration. The DVLA would likely see it as a body swap, so there would be no need for an IVA or a Q plate. But you should be using the Range Rover ID, so not tax or MoT exempt.
 
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Hi Mike ,

First off , congratulations for owning one the most useful and practical of all Series Ones , namely a long wheel base , hopefully a 107” . I have read through the other replies to your question and there is some useful advice to be found in them , so I thought I would add my contribution . First off , I would go along to here http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php and search out all the TDI conversions that have been discussed there . Like here , you will find those people who think doing anything to a Series One that wasn’t done when they were made , sacrilegious and will devalue them and should be punishable by death , blah blah blah . Pay them no heed , as has been said it is your Land Rover to do what you wish with . In particular search out Dale Radford’s 300 TDI conversion into his 107” station wagon . He spent a lot of time and effort into that restoration , but he is a clever and talented chap .

Search out on YouTube Steven Patchett’s Team Faff videos of his various trips with his mates around Europe and the UK in his 200Tdi powered 80” . Very inspiring , and well put together videos . Here’s one to get you started

Three more websites ( if you are not familiar with them )

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/
http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/200di.htm
https://www.steveparkers.com/conversions/

Long wheel based Series Ones were made for one job and that was to work , which many of them did and were worked to death , as a result they are definitely not as common as the short ones , however , in order to keep them running all sorts of modifications were done to them , engine changes being one of the most common . So if it means keeping yours going for a few more years then putting a TDI into is certainly an option , and one I considered for my own 107” . In the end I put the 2 1/4 ACR breathed on petrol engine that I had in my 86” into it , and it is working well . It can certainly keep up with modern traffic , but obviously at the expense of economy .

Putting a TDI into a Series One has been done loads of times , though I believe there is more work involved putting a 300 in than a 200 . These engines are getting harder to get hold of as they have been snapped up by people putting them into their Series Land Rovers , so finding one might be your first challenge .

If you do put one in then decent sound proofing and the correct engine mounts would be vital , as has been said they are very noisy . Changing gearboxes , axles and brakes would be dependent on how you drive it as you certainly have more power at your disposal . There are converted Series Ones still on their original brakes and axles with seemingly no problems , but I am not able to point you towards any at the moment . As yours is a LWB it already has 11” brakes which may be enough . A disc brake conversion might be necessary but you wouldn’t really know until you started driving it .

I would think fitting an overdrive would be a wise move , even better if you could stretch to a Roamerdrive , but at the thick end of £2,000 , they are not cheap .

Power steering on a LWB would make driving it a lot nicer , but not essential . You will , of course , be aware that the more changes you make to it the greater chance that it won’t meet the new(ish) rules from the DVLA .

Putting a V8 into it would make it no less economical than a standard 2 1/4 petrol but a lot more powerful and sounding great . Worth considering if you are not doing too great a mileage .

Ford V6s and Perkins Prima diesels used to be popular conversions but these engines are more scarce than TDI s so probably not worth considering .

Don’t be conned into thinking that Series Ones are rare , they are not . There are probably more on the road now than there were 20 or 30 years ago . In fact Series Twos are rarer as they were only made for 3 years .

As for devaluing your “investment” , forget it , whatever you do to it won’t reduce it’s value . LWBs are the least expensive of all Series Ones (but most useful) and it looks as if the market has peaked and prices are on the way down again . By steadily modifying my 107” over the last 6 years I have been reducing it value annually , but increasing it’s usability and usefulness .

At risk of boring people who have seen my 107”” loads of times before here is a picture of it in it present form as a trayback . Which is much heavier than it was with a normal rear body but now with it’s replacement engine it can keep up with modern traffic .



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Cheers for the info, this is more like the info I’m after.

This is where my S1 is. The chassis is perfect and the suspension is all brand new.
This looks like it would be the ideal time to modify the chassis if required?

The engine was running a couple of use years ago and my line of thought was to sell the engine and gearbox and either buy the parts or, if more suitable, a complete vehicle.

As said, the rationale behind an older diesel is the easier electrics but, if the work was worth a significantly better vehicle, I’d probably do it.
 

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The VM 425 is significantly smoother than any 2-300tdi so if thats the way you want to go thats an engine i'd recommend..

Simple as anything torquey 300+nm of torque stock and around 120hp if you opt for the 2.5 - 2.4 is good too.
 
The VM 425 is significantly smoother than any 2-300tdi so if thats the way you want to go thats an engine i'd recommend..

Simple as anything torquey 300+nm of torque stock and around 120hp if you opt for the 2.5 - 2.4 is good too.

As I’m not massively knowledgeable on these things, I’ve just Googled it and that’s the Jeep engine - correct?

If so, which gearbox would you use with it? Aren’t most of the Jeeps autos? Although, I’m not adverse to an auto if it’s smooth.
 
As I’m not massively knowledgeable on these things, I’ve just Googled it and that’s the Jeep engine - correct?

If so, which gearbox would you use with it? Aren’t most of the Jeeps autos? Although, I’m not adverse to an auto if it’s smooth.
The VM was used in the 1986-1991 Range Rover classics, it was replaced by the 200tdi in 1991

It was paired to the standard LR manual either R380 i believe..

It was much smoother and much torquer than the 200tdis.
 
Should mate to an LT-77 but you’ll need the correct bellhousing.

I agree they are nice engines. But still old school. If you don’t mind quite a bit of fab work, you could lift the entire drivetrain from a diesel 2.5 litre Jeep Cherokee XJ.

Btw the VM was also used in Rover 800’s and some French and Italian cars too. Although it’s main home is as a marine engine in a boat.
 
The Cherokee is the 90’s boxy one that looks like a tank?!
Why does that lend itself to the conversation in particular?
The fabrication won’t be a problem as long as it physically fits in the engine bay/bulkhead.
 
The Cherokee is the 90’s boxy one that looks like a tank?!
Why does that lend itself to the conversation in particular?
The fabrication won’t be a problem as long as it physically fits in the engine bay/bulkhead.
They use a 2.5 VM. Can’t really say if the rest would lend itself to a swap or not. But probably an easier way of getting the engine, rather than from a Range Rover.

They are off road 4wd’s. So you could certainly utilise the gearbox and transfer box. But it will be 100% bespoke.
 
I suppose the Cherokee option is worth considering, especially due to the cost of a cheap donor but, my intention was although I know the new engine and gearbox would need mounting onto the chassis, the plan was after that, everything else would be a straightforward swap, axles if required, propshaft etc whereas the bespoke option with for example the Cherokee would provide all the parts in one hit, and all of it would fit together, the potential issues with fitting it, and the time that could consume would potentially outweigh the gains of having compatible parts?
I’ve never looked at getting a propshaft modified, is expensive and worth avoiding or, simple enough?
 
The VM was used in the 1986-1991 Range Rover classics, it was replaced by the 200tdi in 1991

It was paired to the standard LR manual either R380 i believe..

It was much smoother and much torquer than the 200tdis.
VM 2.4 litre paired with the LT 77 gearbox and the BW viscous coupling type transfer case in the RRC. VM is indeed a nice little engine.
 
I suppose the Cherokee option is worth considering, especially due to the cost of a cheap donor but, my intention was although I know the new engine and gearbox would need mounting onto the chassis, the plan was after that, everything else would be a straightforward swap, axles if required, propshaft etc whereas the bespoke option with for example the Cherokee would provide all the parts in one hit, and all of it would fit together, the potential issues with fitting it, and the time that could consume would potentially outweigh the gains of having compatible parts?
I’ve never looked at getting a propshaft modified, is expensive and worth avoiding or, simple enough?
I have considered doing something similar to what you are doing for pretty much the same reason. I already have a cheap spare Disco D1 300Tdi manual with a rotted body, what I planned to do though was fit a series one body onto a shortened/modded D1 chassis, so I had the disc brakes and power steering package. Where I live the engineering inspection for modification are fairly liberal so the chassis mods would not be a big thing. My spares Disco has great mechanicals just a really badly rusted body. The series body is ok, a little battered but mechanicals are a long way from a restoration, it's been sitting 20 years mostly outside in our tropical climate, I'd not chuck any of it away but after having helped a mate restore a 1950 80" D1 and driving it, there is no way I would want to use it to drive about in, you need to be real hard ar5ed bugger to drive any more than down the paddock in one. I love the look and simplicity of a Series, but the practical side, (and my aching old bones), dictate that if I go ahead with the project, I'll go with all Disco running gear. I won't be parting out anything from the S1, because they ARE worth good money here in original fettle, but like I think you are, I'm not a stickler for originality, practicality yes!
 
As noted in my previous post I have driven a similar conversion to the one you intend and the only real problem was TDI noise with a bare S1 bulkhead and poorly fitted floor and gear tunnel area. Fit good insulation like the discos I would say.
Other than that it was a good drive and went well with so much less weight.
A fellow came to our 4x4 club event in what looked like a very tidy series one. It was only when you looked closer that everything underneath was from one them little square Daihatsu's [ F 20 I think ] We called them " Postman Pat's" around here after the kid's TV show.
It was said that on a quiet day you could hear the body rusting away.
 
In LRO mag Oct 2016 there's a nice S1 with an Alfa twin-cam fitted looks v,nice and by all acounts sounds good as well.
 
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