P38A Coil suspension woes

5amw1se · Dec 10, 2020

Hi all,

Got another thread on the go regarding battery/heater matrix o-ring dramas. But I also wanted to get some advice about the coil suspension (yes I know, it was like that when I bought it).

Two issues really, that may actually be one:

When driving, it wanders with road seams/camber, not always but quite alarming when it does.
Looking at the front left wheel, it seems like the coil spring is bent/partially collapsed, and the wheel looks like it leans in.

Apparently the kit it has fitted gives it a 2" lift. Not checked this to confirm. It also has particularly large tyres on the rims which I am considering downsizing a little, given that one of them - the front left - has extreme outer wear which may be due to tracking. Again, not had it checked yet.

I suspected radius arm bush wear, and have bought some half decent polybushes which I was planning to swap out as needed. Could it be the bushes causing this, or is it more likely to be a ****e spring? Don't know what quality was used to do the conversion, I bought this P38 cheap as a project.

Henry_b · Dec 10, 2020

Don't fit Polybushes keep to the stock rubber.

In my experience I've driven a P38 with a Britpart +2 coil kit and it was hideous, mind you any P38 on coils handles like ****...

Coils can break.

I'd reinstate the EAS and get the car back to what it should be,

5amw1se · Dec 10, 2020

Problem is, even though I have the original air springs (seller told me at least one has a leak) and various other spares, it would probably be an awful lot of work to reinstate the EAS with an uncertain outcome as I have to figure out what they have done to it, like EAS ECU bypass etc. Could end up costing more than I paid for the car...

Is it worth getting both front springs out to see if one has deformed? Or is there a more likely explanation?

tomcat59alan · Dec 10, 2020

5amw1se said:
Problem is, even though I have the original air springs (seller told me at least one has a leak) and various other spares, it would probably be an awful lot of work to reinstate the EAS with an uncertain outcome as I have to figure out what they have done to it, like EAS ECU bypass etc. Could end up costing more than I paid for the car...

Is it worth getting both front springs out to see if one has deformed? Or is there a more likely explanation?

Put it back,on air or burn the fecker.

brianp38dse · Dec 10, 2020

5amw1se said:
Problem is, even though I have the original air springs (seller told me at least one has a leak) and various other spares, it would probably be an awful lot of work to reinstate the EAS with an uncertain outcome as I have to figure out what they have done to it, like EAS ECU bypass etc. Could end up costing more than I paid for the car...

Is it worth getting both front springs out to see if one has deformed? Or is there a more likely explanation?

Have a good look and see what of the eas is left, if the pump and block and height sensors are still there it may only need a rebuild on pump and block and remove the bypass, rebuild kit less than 50 notes.

oakey · Dec 10, 2020

I wouldnt fit polybushes

Marshall8hp · Dec 10, 2020

Unfortunately, everyone telling the guy to "put it back on air" isn't actually helping the fellow.

If the wheels don't look parallel in the vertical plane, then you either have ball joint issues or a partially collapsed wheel bearing (which you should hear).

"Particularly large tyres" on standard rims won't help with the tracking, standard rims are designed for standard tyres. Tyre pressure is another issue. Over inflated front tyres will cause tramlining under inflated tyres will cause the car to wallow and also result in outer tread wear. Once you have the new tyres fitted, a wheel alignment is the first thing to do.

It is also worth checking the intermediate steering shaft for play and wear. It doesn't have to be much. Barely perceptible play in a uni joint or the rubber coupling can give quite significant movement at the wheel, and in your case cause the car to change direction and follow the road without you moving the wheel. Mine had a tiny bit of movement in the rubber coupling, I changed the shaft for a new one, completely different car to drive.

In terms of bushes, if they need to be changed, then change them. If they are sound, then leave them alone. If you do change them, genuine ONLY, never Poly Bushes, you will regret it. Check the panhard rod bushes. Get someone to sit in the car and wobble the steering wheel side to side about centre. Put you head underneath and see if there is any movement in the panhard rod bushes. Once again, a tiny amount of movement here translates to a whole lot on the road. If you do replace them, always bushes and bolts, never new bushes on old bolts.

Whilst the wobbling is going on, check for play in the steering box, drag link and tie rod ends. These components are cheap to replace and once again a little wear means a lot of movement (especially if combined with other worn items).

I haven't mentioned shock absorbers, but consider it done. Worn shocks will cause the car to wallow a bit, and give the front end a floaty feeling when going over uneven roads. They won't really impact on your tracking issue though.

Unless you get the geometry sorted, it will make no difference if the car is on air or coils.

oakey · Dec 10, 2020

+ 1 to all the above

5amw1se · Dec 10, 2020

Marshall8hp said:
Unfortunately, everyone telling the guy to "put it back on air" isn't actually helping the fellow.

If the wheels don't look parallel in the vertical plane, then you either have ball joint issues or a partially collapsed wheel bearing (which you should hear).

"Particularly large tyres" on standard rims won't help with the tracking, standard rims are designed for standard tyres. Tyre pressure is another issue. Over inflated front tyres will cause tramlining under inflated tyres will cause the car to wallow and also result in outer tread wear. Once you have the new tyres fitted, a wheel alignment is the first thing to do.

It is also worth checking the intermediate steering shaft for play and wear. It doesn't have to be much. Barely perceptible play in a uni joint or the rubber coupling can give quite significant movement at the wheel, and in your case cause the car to change direction and follow the road without you moving the wheel. Mine had a tiny bit of movement in the rubber coupling, I changed the shaft for a new one, completely different car to drive.

In terms of bushes, if they need to be changed, then change them. If they are sound, then leave them alone. If you do change them, genuine ONLY, never Poly Bushes, you will regret it. Check the panhard rod bushes. Get someone to sit in the car and wobble the steering wheel side to side about centre. Put you head underneath and see if there is any movement in the panhard rod bushes. Once again, a tiny amount of movement here translates to a whole lot on the road. If you do replace them, always bushes and bolts, never new bushes on old bolts.

Whilst the wobbling is going on, check for play in the steering box, drag link and tie rod ends. These components are cheap to replace and once again a little wear means a lot of movement (especially if combined with other worn items).

I haven't mentioned shock absorbers, but consider it done. Worn shocks will cause the car to wallow a bit, and give the front end a floaty feeling when going over uneven roads. They won't really impact on your tracking issue though.

Unless you get the geometry sorted, it will make no difference if the car is on air or coils.

Thanks David, that is a very comprehensive list. I haven't noticed any bearing noise so the ball joint will be a good place to start and it is a job I am confident I can do. I am reluctant to replace the tyres until I get the rest of the geometry sorted, they are probably the most expensive part.

I have seen other threads where people diagnosed perished panhard rod bushes for this sort of issue, so that will be my next stop. I don't think they even sell those in poly due to complaints of poor handling, so they will be genuine if they need replacing.

Bix · Dec 11, 2020

The coils have nothing to do with the wheel having what sounds like camber on it. Either the bearings are on the way out, someone hasn't fitted the hub right so it is on the ****, or the axle is bent. They are solid axles so spring type is irrelevant. Coil, air, leaf, or none at all. Camber is set in stone.

Unless by leans in you mean toe in? In which case sort your tracking first. Then go from there.

RangeRoller dt · Dec 11, 2020

If you have the airsprings and hopefully some of the EAS left won’t be too hard to reinstate. The trouble shooting once it’s in will be a bit of a ball ache but not that difficult.
Just depends what you want to do. No EAS for me no problems either.

P38A Coil suspension woes

5amw1se

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Henry_b

Think outside, no box required.

5amw1se

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tomcat59alan

Well-Known Member

brianp38dse

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oakey

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Marshall8hp

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oakey

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5amw1se

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Bix

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RangeRoller dt

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