Disco 2 Clutch and Main seal leak

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john snoo said:
Well this may start a debate......

I just got off phone to a close friend of mine, landy man for many years and a mechanic too. He said something (strongly too!) which seems opposite to what I thought, and what some here seem to think too. He said the DMF is not a better clutch. It may feel more modern and "soft" or spongy on the engagement, but it's weaker and won't last as long, and is way worse for towing heavy loads etc. He prefers standard solid steel clutch without DMF, but a good one like Sachs rather than LUK. Hey, I am just the messenger! But I would read with interest any comments on that from folks in here :)
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on modern high torque diesels a dual mass is important a few springs in the clutch plate arent enough dampening, it will hammer your gear box with a single mass flywheel
 
john snoo said:
Well this may start a debate......

I just got off phone to a close friend of mine, landy man for many years and a mechanic too. He said something (strongly too!) which seems opposite to what I thought, and what some here seem to think too. He said the DMF is not a better clutch. It may feel more modern and "soft" or spongy on the engagement, but it's weaker and won't last as long, and is way worse for towing heavy loads etc. He prefers standard solid steel clutch without DMF, but a good one like Sachs rather than LUK. Hey, I am just the messenger! But I would read with interest any comments on that from folks in here :)
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Ther eis no real debate, changing any clutch and especially a land rover one is not an easy task, so common sense says to replace everything whilst you are in there.
DMF is std td5 fitment, and yes your mate is correct they are carp, but they last the life of the clutch, so no real worries.
You can get solid flywheels, but there is the unknown possibliity of crank failure through lack of damping, I would certainly replace like for like.

Diesel engine crank damping is now bit of an art in itself, I recently changed the front crank damper on the wifes car, and it was a de-coupled torsional/harmonic damper/balancer pulley, try saying that when you have had a few!
 
Bennehboy said:
I've had a solid flywheel on mine for ~ 70k miles, haven't had any gearbox or crank issues yet (maybe just luck though).
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Dare I say this? Could it depend on how you drive and how you change gear? Or maybe what terrain you usually drive over?
Personally I only ever have to change a clutch if someone else has driven the car lots before me. But that is more to do with driving style. I like double declutching, (nutter). But I also know quite a few people, often french bizarrely, who "saw" the accelerator, continuously putting either drive or drag from the crank to the wheels or vice versa. As if matching the position of the accelerator to the speed you want to be doing is just too hard.
Just saying!
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Dare I say this? Could it depend on how you drive and how you change gear? Or maybe what terrain you usually drive over?
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Quite possibly. FWIW the vehicle has an aggressive tune & all the associated hardware. It also gets used offroad (pay and play, and laning).

jamesmartin said:
and ive changed several back to dual mass because of complaints,you cant get away fro the fact a dual mass has far much more damping effect than a few clutch plate springs
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Absolutely a DMF is smoother, at ~ 1300 revs in certain scenarios the solid flywheel could shake the car to bits, but I just drive accordingly. The most annoying thing about the solid flywheel is the idle/neutral gearbox rattle.

Just pointing out that I've not had any mechanical issues with it.
 
Bennehboy said:
Quite possibly. FWIW the vehicle has an aggressive tune & all the associated hardware. It also gets used offroad (pay and play, and laning).



Absolutely a DMF is smoother, at ~ 1300 revs in certain scenarios the solid flywheel could shake the car to bits, but I just drive accordingly. The most annoying thing about the solid flywheel is the idle/neutral gearbox rattle.

Just pointing out that I've not had any mechanical issues with it.
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youve just made the case for a dual mass and theres probably plenty driving around on solid, apart from 250 quid i cant see any benefit to solid
 
jamesmartin said:
youve just made the case for a dual mass and theres probably plenty driving around on solid, apart from 250 quid i cant see any benefit to solid
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There are reasons for, and reasons against, I'm not making a case either way other than to say I've had no mechanical issues with gearbox or crank since fitting.
 
Some interesting reading above, thanks all. I keep hearing "damping" is better with DMF. Yep, my friend said that himself, but he didn't accept that all that damping was "better". He was more saying it's personal taste and he much prefers SMF. I doubt I would though, but it did make me stop and think a bit.

Could someone explain the main differences in actual effect on driving performance? I get the damping effect, but what else would I notice with one v the other? Is the biting point sharper with a SMF? Is the gear change smoother or not affected by flywheel? I have very little knowledge and would like to know all the differences if anyone cares to list them. Based on this thread alone, I think I will be going for DMF, my wife drives it sometimes and it is currently pretty hard and snappy, VERY easy to stall (very stiff clutch for a D2 compared to others I have driven) so considering that I think the 'smoothest' (most modern) driving experience is probably a wise choice, even though I do like the idea of a SMF in many ways. Oh and I like a double clutch on occasion too, good for you Stan! :D
 
john snoo said:
Some interesting reading above, thanks all. I keep hearing "damping" is better with DMF. Yep, my friend said that himself, but he didn't accept that all that damping was "better". He was more saying it's personal taste and he much prefers SMF. I doubt I would though, but it did make me stop and think a bit.

Could someone explain the main differences in actual effect on driving performance? I get the damping effect, but what else would I notice with one v the other? Is the biting point sharper with a SMF? Is the gear change smoother or not affected by flywheel? I have very little knowledge and would like to know all the differences if anyone cares to list them. Based on this thread alone, I think I will be going for DMF, my wife drives it sometimes and it is currently pretty hard and snappy, VERY easy to stall (very stiff clutch for a D2 compared to others I have driven) so considering that I think the 'smoothest' (most modern) driving experience is probably a wise choice, even though I do like the idea of a SMF in many ways. Oh and I like a double clutch on occasion too, good for you Stan! :D
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makes you feel you are actually driving the car and makes changing down to overtake much smoother. Better for the gearbox. Mind you I've driven so many old bangers with no syncro on second.....lol.
For Wifey's sake and your peace of mind go for the DMF. Though it sticks in my craw to say it.
 
john snoo said:
Some interesting reading above, thanks all. I keep hearing "damping" is better with DMF. Yep, my friend said that himself, but he didn't accept that all that damping was "better". He was more saying it's personal taste and he much prefers SMF. I doubt I would though, but it did make me stop and think a bit.

Could someone explain the main differences in actual effect on driving performance? I get the damping effect, but what else would I notice with one v the other? Is the biting point sharper with a SMF? Is the gear change smoother or not affected by flywheel? I have very little knowledge and would like to know all the differences if anyone cares to list them. Based on this thread alone, I think I will be going for DMF, my wife drives it sometimes and it is currently pretty hard and snappy, VERY easy to stall (very stiff clutch for a D2 compared to others I have driven) so considering that I think the 'smoothest' (most modern) driving experience is probably a wise choice, even though I do like the idea of a SMF in many ways. Oh and I like a double clutch on occasion too, good for you Stan! :D
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Lots of stuff for you to read and watch hear on the differences.
https://www.google.com/search?q=SMF.....69i57j0l2.4760j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
Thanks Stan. Yesterday I had a nasty experience. Got in my Disco and couldnt select reverse. Tried and tried, wouldn't go in. Not sure if clutch or gearbox is fukked, but either is bad news :(
 
john snoo said:
Thanks Stan. Yesterday I had a nasty experience. Got in my Disco and couldnt select reverse. Tried and tried, wouldn't go in. Not sure if clutch or gearbox is fukked, but either is bad news :(
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Could simply be that, as they is crosscut, the edges of the gears are just touching. Unless you have already tried the old trick of putting it in neutral, revving it a bit with the clutch up then going back to normal.
 
Or else you could put it first, move it a fraction, then try reverse again. Have you tried engine off, shove the gear lever towards reverse, then starting the car in gear?
If you can then it sounds like slave might have gone, unless of course you can still get it in all other gears. :(
 
Thanks. not sure what it is, will have a play later. But I think people have already advised that if I have to have gearbox out then I should go for DMF, Clutch master and slave, so I may just have to do all that :(
 
Do you tow a lot? If 5th and reverse stop working it can be due to the layshaft shearing off in the extension housing. Fingers crossed it's something much simpler.
 
That sounds nasty! I don't tow a lot no and I don't think the vehicle has done much if any towing before me. But strangely, I have towed a caravan twice in the past week.
 
Had a good chat with a friend of a friend today, he has been restoring and rebuilding landys and discos for many moons, and we ended up having a chat about DMF v SMF. he said there is a very good option he recommends which is actually a SMF made by Loff, its the only one he fits to Discos and have done many of them he doesn't sell any DMFs any more. Says it drives just like a DMF but without the stretchy feeling, especially good for tuned up discos (remapped etc), but he said it would definitely not have any noticable differences in smoothness to drive than a DMF, and won't break after 20k miles like many DMFs do. He strongly recommended it. Wondered if anyone here has heard of them or used them? He also said Loff do a "reduced effort slave cylinder" which he recommends also if my wife wants it a bit lighter under the foot. Any thoughts?

Has anyone heard of BuzzWeld treatment? I was about to go for Bilt Hamber but I heard BuzzWeld is extremely good stuff, not cheap to do though apparently as whole chassis needs to be prepped.
 
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