Cheapish 4x4

Andrew Norman <[email protected]> wrote:

> I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo,

i.e. the same as a 4.0 litre 2 tonne truck.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gtdov2.16wjkixdm76f2N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Mark Jordan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > My parents have just purchased a property in the French alps, and we
> > are looking to purchase a car which will spend most of its life down
> > there on the snow bound roads of the Alps (inc. Switzerland).
> >
> > We dont want to spend any more than say £3,000 (less if we can),
>
> Them IMO you'll be stuffed. Because you're not going to get what you ask
> for within the budget. I used to work in Switzerland and I had both a
> Golf GTi and a Golf Synchro while I was there. As others have said, the
> 4x4 didn't actually offer much benefit over the FWD car, you may be
> better off simply getting some lessons on driving on ice and snow.
>
> A 4WD car is not a license to drive flat out on snow covered roads. Many
> people who have never driven one seem to assume that a 4x4 has some
> magic in it that permits higher speeds than possible with a 2x4. Not so,
> so if that was the thinking behind your choice, think again.
>


LOL - think I witnessed the 4x4 "magic" effect about 4 weeks ago in a brief
flurry of sleet/snow on Reigate-ish area of the M25 early one Sunday
morning.

It was settling on the carriageway surface, and coming down relatively
steadily - not great driving conditions. So I drop down to 40/45ish in L1,
watching cars sailing past at 70ish. Sure enough after a couple of minutes
traffic comes to a standstill & then creeps forward sporadically. 500m or
so later the cause is apparent - bloke in Impreza WRX sat skewed in L2/3,
steam pouring from (badly deformed) bonnet, dont know quite how he'd managed
it but his front bumper was wrapped around the hard shoulder barrier
supports horseshoe-stylee.

He looked somewhat embarrassed...

<snip>

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

Derek <[email protected]> wrote:

> Also there is the Toyota Corolla 4WD estate probably a little under the
> 130bhp but exceptionally capable offroad and of course very reliable but
> don't expect to buy on in the UK they are very rare.Also known as the
> Tercel in the US and some european countrys well withing the budget

Avoid like the plague, the Tercel is utter ****e.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Less than half the story?

No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle
for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the
money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question.

I didn't ask for my logic of keeping the vehicle in france, my
justification of wanting 4x4 and my ability to drive on snow and ice to
be bought into question. Sadly, when some people can't answer the
question it seems that they feel they have to pick holes in other parts
of the post. I didn't ask whether my keeping the vehicle in France was
a good idea, therefore I don't really see why people wish to comment on
it. It will be kept in France and yes it will be a 4x4.

Now, back on topic.

I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's
on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on
them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of
the mid-90's ?

[email protected] wrote:
> Less than half the story?
>
> No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle
> for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the
> money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question.
>
> I didn't ask for my logic of keeping the vehicle in france, my
> justification of wanting 4x4 and my ability to drive on snow and ice
> to be bought into question. Sadly, when some people can't answer the
> question it seems that they feel they have to pick holes in other
> parts of the post.

Yeah, it's terrible when people forget that Usenet is here for your personal
information gathering needs and feel they have some kind of right to discuss
whatever they like.

It's good to see that you've given them a proper telling off ... maybe that
will stop all of the mindless chatter that goes on in here in between you
wanting your questions answered for free.

--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1, Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, DS#5, COSOC# Suspended, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie ****.

<[email protected]> wrote:

> No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle
> for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the
> money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question.

You're a bit of a stranger to how usenet works, aren't you? Where the
interest for anyone in simply providing you with a free research
service?

> I didn't ask for my logic of keeping the vehicle in france, my
> justification of wanting 4x4 and my ability to drive on snow and ice to
> be bought into question.

That doesn't stop anyone discussing those topics. Indeed it doesn't stop
anyone wondering why someone would want to do something as ****witted as
buying a car in the UK to use predominantly in France, insuring it in
England while possibly not coming clean with the insurer that the
primary use of this vehicle is in France.

Moving on from that to discuss the possibility that some English
****wits seem to think that all they need to do is buy a 4x4 and voila!
they can drive on snow is not off-topic either.

> Sadly, when some people can't answer the question it seems that they feel
> they have to pick holes in other parts of the post. I didn't ask whether
> my keeping the vehicle in France was a good idea, therefore I don't really
> see why people wish to comment on it.

Because they can.

> It will be kept in France

Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap
and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The
excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not
one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad,
I hate the whining ex-pats.

> and yes it will be a 4x4.

One wonders why.

> Now, back on topic.

We were never off-topic.

> I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's
> on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on
> them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of
> the mid-90's ?

I hope you get the car you deserve.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

> Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap
> and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The
> excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not
> one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad,
> I hate the whining ex-pats.

They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?

--
Peter

Get Circumcised to e-mail me

Fiat Panda 4x4, just about to be released again ??

..
>
> They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?
>

AstraVanMan <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap
> > and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The
> > excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not
> > one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad,
> > I hate the whining ex-pats.
>
> They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?

Yes, they only imported the (8 Valve) GTi version into the UK, I think.
There were 1.9 and 1.9 Diesel versions in France.

There's also a 4x4 version of the Mi16 (with a turbo).

Quite a few of these available in France for about EUR 2000. I'll post
some URLs when the email with the URLs in it makes its way to this
machine.

One suggestion I haven't seen from others is a Mitsubishi Evo, it's
possible to get a K reg Evo within the £3k budget.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"AstraVanMan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap
> > and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The
> > excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not
> > one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad,
> > I hate the whining ex-pats.
>
> They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?

They did a 1.9 petrol version, not sure whether it was the proper GTi engine
or a detuned version. There was also a Group B rally car version - the BX
4TC (as in 4wd TurboCharged). Pug did the sister cars - a 405 GLx4/GRx4
(both 1.9s i believe), the Mi16x4 and of course the 405 T16.

On 2005-03-14, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:

> Well at least he wouldn't be getting into trouble in the Alps with that,
> he'd be unlikely to get that far.

Yawn! Snore......

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On 2005-03-14, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

> No. I asked a very simple question. I want a 4x4 saloon type vehicle
> for under £3k. I was looking for reccomendations for the best for the
> money. Thankfully, some people have replied to my direct question.

A common problem, and one that seems to have no solution. People will
assume you are wrong and will try to tell you so and how you should do
it, despite not knowing one tiny part of the situation. Such is life.

> I've been looking at a few Audi Quattros and a couple of Mondeo 4x4's
> on eBay which seem good value. They tend to have a highish mileage on
> them though - any problem with the Ford 4x4 or Quattro drive train of
> the mid-90's ?

I owned a 90 Quattro, 1988 I think, from 60,000 to 115,000 miles with
never a single peep, clonk or grind from the drivetrain, the mechanic
who serviced the car told me that he used to own one exactly like mine
and had never seen a quattro drivetrain go wrong. Thankfully too, as
it would cost an arm and a leg to repair!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On 2005-03-14, Andrew Norman <[email protected]> wrote:

> The Lotus Esprit has a combined fuel consumption of 21.2 mpg,
> according to this site:
>
> http://www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EBuying/SundayTimes_12_2003.html

Mine does about 30 if driven carefully (or rather it did before I
stripped the engine about 2 years ago!), the 15MPG figure was from an
Impreza mailing list, however I have no idea about the spec of the car
so it's probably a somewhat pessimistic figure!

> I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, I can get over
> 30 mpg on long motorway cruises.

I get 24MPG at the worst in my Defender 110, so I don't think a
powerful Impreza is practical for long distance driving unless your
pockets are deep. My audi does 45-50 MPG.

I also get the idea that the original poster was going to be leaving
the car hanging around doing nothing much for some time, so a car that
uses expensive tyres and has a complex ECU also wouldn't be the best
choice.

> And your 2 tonne Landy doesn't have a 0-60 time of just over 5
> seconds...

With no anti-roll bars in the suspension, mud tyres, live axles and
long-travel soft springs, I'm glad of that ;-) Mind you a Bowler
Wildcat can keep up with an Impreza in a straight line, but it does
cost 60K...

> The 7500 service interval on the Impreza definitely is a
> disadvantage.

I thought it was 5,000 on some of them?

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:44:44 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I average about 24 mpg in my year 2000 Impreza Turbo, I can get over
>> 30 mpg on long motorway cruises.
>
>I get 24MPG at the worst in my Defender 110, so I don't think a
>powerful Impreza is practical for long distance driving unless your
>pockets are deep. My audi does 45-50 MPG.

Bizarrely my wife's Fiesta 1.4 is probably the worse of our cars on a
long high speed cruise. The Impreza will be managing 30mpg, the MX5
33mpg and the Fiesta struggling to reach 25mpg.

>> And your 2 tonne Landy doesn't have a 0-60 time of just over 5
>> seconds...
>
>With no anti-roll bars in the suspension, mud tyres, live axles and
>long-travel soft springs, I'm glad of that ;-) Mind you a Bowler
>Wildcat can keep up with an Impreza in a straight line, but it does
>cost 60K...

I'll bet it doesn't do 24mpg while it is doing it though

>> The 7500 service interval on the Impreza definitely is a
>> disadvantage.
>
>I thought it was 5,000 on some of them?

Not that I am aware of. You might be thinking of the Mitsubishi Evo,
some of the more extreme versions of that have shortened service
intervals.
--
Andy Norman [email protected]
http://www.norman.cx/
Replace the fish with my first name to reply

AstraVanMan <[email protected]> wrote:

> They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?

OK, here we go, BX 4x4, Pug 4x4 and Airtrek[1] URLs.

BX 4x4

<http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/topten/forgotten-4x4s/forgotten-4x
4s-6.html>
<http://www.citroenz.com/BX/rt4x4.html>
<http://home.wanadoo.nl/cwdegier/techdraw.html>
<http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar.nsf/fr/6BB17A77101AB63CC1256F15
0079C57C>

Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3)

<http://www.globalcar.com/datasheet/Peugeot/1989Peugeot405MI-164x4.htm>
<http://www.automobile-sportive.com/guide/peugeot/405mi16.php>
<http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar.nsf/fr/CF1468A24D4F424CC1256FA0
0039FDE3>


Airtrek

<http://www.xtreme-uk.net/AirTrekTurboROverview.asp>
<http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newcars/mitsubishi_airtrek.shtml>

[1] Forgot to mention that one as well, but an Airtrek or VR4 would be
my choice for a fast 4x4 cross country car. Or an American 4x4 if I was
serious about crossing continents and then driving up a mountain in
snow. In fact since I am serious about crossing the Alps and the
Apennines in order to get home, I did choose a yank tank.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gtfr17.1vcx0alfdml77N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> AstraVanMan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?
>
> OK, here we go, BX 4x4, Pug 4x4 and Airtrek[1] URLs.
>
> BX 4x4
>
> <http://www.channel4.com/4car/feature/topten/forgotten-4x4s/forgotten-4x
> 4s-6.html>
> <http://www.citroenz.com/BX/rt4x4.html>
> <http://home.wanadoo.nl/cwdegier/techdraw.html>
> <http://www.webmycar.com/zonecar/webacar.nsf/fr/6BB17A77101AB63CC1256F15
> 0079C57C>
>
> Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3)

The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16 had
the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though).

Carl Gibbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3)
>
> The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16 had
> the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though).

That was in this country, go look at the URL.

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

In message <[email protected]>, AstraVanMan
<[email protected]> writes
>> Why not buy a left hooker in France then? If you want something cheap
>> and with "oomph" why not buy a 4x4 Xantia or a 4x4 BX over there? The
>> excuse about registration is bizarrely pathetic. I do hope you're not
>> one of those Brits that lives life like a little Englander while abroad,
>> I hate the whining ex-pats.
>
>They did a 4x4 BX? Cool. Did they do a 4x4 version of the GTI?
>
How about a Lada?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

On 2005-03-14, Andrew Norman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bizarrely my wife's Fiesta 1.4 is probably the worse of our cars on
> a long high speed cruise. The Impreza will be managing 30mpg, the
> MX5 33mpg and the Fiesta struggling to reach 25mpg.

Revving its nuts off to get to a decent cruising speed most probably!

> I'll bet it doesn't do 24mpg while it is doing it though

With a TVR-based V8 in it, I doubt it'll do much more than about 8-10
MPG with the welly down.. Mind you if you can afford an expensive
plaything like a Bowler then I doubt fuel costs are uppermost in your
mind..

> Not that I am aware of. You might be thinking of the Mitsubishi Evo,
> some of the more extreme versions of that have shortened service
> intervals.

No, it was definitely the Impreza, a friend has one, I'll prod him
sometime and see what he says. I don't think it was that extreme, but
can't remember the age or the spec. Still, it's important to check
service intervals if you're going for a budget car, and I doubt that a
Landy (cue steve!), an Impreza, an Evo or a Bowler are really budget
cars when you roll fuel into the equation. Mind you my 110 ran on
vegetable oil for a few months.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gtfsq0.1xm5fpm1i8nmvyN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Carl Gibbs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Peugeot Mi 16 4x4 (Garrett T3)
> >
> > The Mi16 didnt have a turbo. It was a 16v MPi with ~155bhp. The T16
had
> > the turbo (not sure if it was a T3 or not though).
>
> That was in this country, go look at the URL.
>
I'm not that good at French, but they seem to agree with me. The Mi16x4 had
the N/A engine which was brought out to compete with the Renault 21 Trubo
4x4, whereas the T16 had the turbo'd one which was a link the competition
side of Peugeot and is very rare.