Changing fuel pump

85Santana3 · Jul 6, 2019

Thank extreedoc for your reply.
That could very well be another problem. Quality of fuel some times is poor and the tank is one of the few things that I had not touched since I bought the truck.
Question is how do I check or fix this? How do I get to that mesh and clean it?
As for the deathblow to the pump by the mechanic I have no doubt about that.
I called the idiot and he said that he is on a 10 day pilgrimage (

yes really ). When he comes back he needs all the help he can get from those saints to remove a certain hammer from his head

The pump was working till he decided to improve land rover engineering.

Rodeo Joe · Jul 6, 2019

85Santana3 said:
How do I check that Joe?

You can really only do it visually , follow it from the pickup in the tank to the pump inlet.(take off the cover under the seat to see the tank) The fitting to the tank pickup might be corroded depending on what yours is made of it could be brass but mine was just normal steel .
Any dampness on the pipe will be a giveaway if the line is weeping.

85Santana3 · Jul 6, 2019

Thank you Joe. Tomorrow I will check this and the mesh in the tank at the same time. Thanks everybody for your kind help.

Extreedoc · Jul 6, 2019

85Santana3 said:
Thank extreedoc for your reply.
That could very well be another problem. Quality of fuel some times is poor and the tank is one of the few things that I had not touched since I bought the truck.
Question is how do I check or fix this? How do I get to that mesh and clean it?
As for the deathblow to the pump by the mechanic I have no doubt about that.
I called the idiot and he said that he is on a 10 day pilgrimage ( yes really ). When he comes back he needs all the help he can get from those saints to remove a certain hammer from his head The pump was working till he decided to improve land rover engineering.

I'm not familiar with the Santana but I've seen pictures... Assuming the tank is under the seat like a Brit LR? You will need to take the fuel pick-up pipe out of the tank, usually two screws. The filter should be soldered onto the end of the pipe. If it is blocked, the easiest answer is to tear it off and chuck it, then fit an in-line filter with a see-through body further up the fuel line. Fit it somewhere where you can get to it. You will have to change it for a new one periodically. It will be a good idea to drain the tank as well if you can get the drain bung out. You can filter the petrol through a nice clean cloth and put it back in the tank. There will still be some muck in the tank but let the new in-line filter deal with that.

Colthebrummie · Jul 6, 2019

Be careful if you decide to remove the drain bung (if there is one) they can snap off, then You'll really have something to complain about. And if the tank is full or nearly, it might be best to siphon out as much as you can because o cel the bung is out, it's hard to stop the flow.

Col

tottot · Jul 6, 2019

Follow Col's warning, old tanks are trouble.
If your mechanic removed the pump [ think he did ] it is important the operating lever [ the one in the engine ] goes over the cam lobe inside when refitting, if it is fitted under the cam it will not work even with the outside manual lever.

Extreedoc · Jul 6, 2019

Colthebrummie said:
Be careful if you decide to remove the drain bung (if there is one) they can snap off, then You'll really have something to complain about. And if the tank is full or nearly, it might be best to siphon out as much as you can because o cel the bung is out, it's hard to stop the flow.

Col

Quite right, it's why I said if you can get it out. If rusty or fragile looking don't risk it but syphon instead.

85Santana3 · Jul 6, 2019

Thank you fellows for your generous help and advice. I have arranged with another mechanic to take the truck to him tomorrow afternoon and work on this together. Since he is over 75 years of age there is hope he knows what he is doing, but I will keep your suggestions in mind. I will make an update after we have completed the job maybe even with a couple of photos. Thanks again.

rob1miles · Jul 7, 2019

The pick up pipe MAY be above the bung or even inside it as its the lowest point and I think the orginal idea could be that the filter on the pick uip sat in the bung so you could clean it from underneath. My filter long gone but the bung was full up and blokcing the end of the pick up. I echo the health warnings about undoing anything on an old tank, very easy to think yuo are unscrewing the bunk when you are actually unscrewing the bung along with half the bottom of the tank. Did that with a rad, knew it was safer to loosen the bottom hose and stay away from the drain bung but temptation got me, felt it move so put some more pressure on, out it came complete with the threaded boss and a ring of solder.

85Santana3 · Jul 10, 2019

OK I am adding an update as promised in case it might help somebody else in future:
We left the damaged pump where it was and added an electric fuel pump (the miserable supplier shop says it is good for Mazda and will fit Land Rover). I added another filter before the pump and passed new hose to it. We did not touch the tank or its mesh because it did not seem to be problematic and as a general rule you shouldn't go half way looking for trouble.
I have tested the truck in a long and hard drive with the new pump it is smooth and despite the questionable manufacturing the cheap pump works fine. On the negative side it is noisy. Right now it is bolted to the side next to air filter cone as you see in the pictures. It is better to add some dampening agents such as rubber or something between the bolts and the body to reduce the transmission of noise or maybe even house it in a sound proof box. That is for later.
As it is with laws of nature today the first day of not having any mechanical problems in a long time I had a flat tire

so the adventures continue.
thank you all for your kind advice and suggestions.

Citizen Kane · Jul 10, 2019

I would say good call on the electric fuel pump, I've had issues with three separate mechanical fuel pumps over the last 4 years, all different makes and all troublesome. You would have thought a mechanical fuel pump would be a reliable and robust item but you only need to look through the number of post on the subject to realise that may not be the case. The solid state pump you have fitted should prove reliable, even if it isn't they are cheap to buy, virtually any spares shop will have an equivalent and they are easy to replace. Before I change a fuel filter I let the tank run down low then use the electric pump to drain the remains of the tank into a can then remove the old filter. Hopefully this gets rid of the worst of the muck in the tank.

rob1miles · Jul 10, 2019

If you blow hard into the fuel pipe back to the tank you can clear the strainer in the tank, the much should (hope!) fall to the bottom again for a while. An old dodge was to swap feed and return on a diesel for a few miles and clear the tank strainer.

85Santana3 · Jul 12, 2019

Since we installed the electric pump the truck has stopped every time fuel is at 1/3 of the tank (2/3 used or 160 km in my case).
Both time I poured 6 L of fuel in the tank and it restarted again. I have no idea why.
Today I shorten the hoses from the tank to pump and pump to carburator to help with the pressure and opened the gas tank to see what adjustments I could make.
It was not difficult, remove the passenger seat and open the plate. I added some photos at the bottom in case it might be useful to somebody later.

The filter/mesh thing (2) was pretty clean but cleaned it more none the less and took out the floater (1) which had liquid in it and tried to figure out how it had gotten inside. I did not see any holes anywhere. Could it be that there is some liquid inside by design? Since my fuel gauge shows full tank at 3/4 I bent the pipe a little to see if it will correct that.
At point 3 there is a bend. Is this normal? I tried to straighten it to make sure the mesh reaches the bottom of the tank. It was pretty hard to bend, so maybe this is how it is supposed to be.
Why do you think the truck stops at 1/3 tank? Could it be that the pump is too weak?
Thank you in advance.

Colthebrummie · Jul 12, 2019

Have you measured the length of the pick up pipe and compared that to the depth of the tank? It's possible it is the wrong one for the tank, although, a bit unlikely. The float shouldn't have any fluid in it, check its performance in a bucket of water to see if it floats properly. Have a look on eBay at new sender units to see if they have the same bend.

Col

marjon · Jul 12, 2019

Maybe your new electric pump is to high above the fuel level.

Maybe it pumps better than it sucks if that makes sense

J

Extreedoc · Jul 12, 2019

It's different to the series which has a separate fuel pick-up pipe but the same principle applies. Thanks for the pictures, now I know the difference between a Santana and a series fuel tank.

When you say 1/3rd full, is the tank 1/3rd full or is that just what the gauge says? Might be that the tank level is lower and the gauge is fibbing.

Extreedoc · Jul 12, 2019

marjon said:
Maybe your new electric pump is to high above the fuel level.

Maybe it pumps better than it sucks if that makes sense

J

Yes, it looks like a 'Facet' pump and they do blow better than they suck but in reality they will suck a lot further than they should do, officially... Mine is about five feet from the tank; they are supposed to have a 'lift' of only 30cm.

rob1miles · Jul 12, 2019

Agreed re Facet lift, usually they need to be somewhere level with the top of the tank and the 30cm lift then is sufficient. Best of all is below the tank level so they self prime.

85Santana3 · Jul 12, 2019

Colthebrummie said:
Have a look on eBay at new sender units to see if they have the same bend.Col

Col Thanks for the suggestion I should have done that. There are so many options some straight and some bent. Looking at photos, bent must be part of design.

rob1miles said:
Agreed re Facet lift, usually they need to be somewhere level with the top of the tank and the 30cm lift then is sufficient. Best of all is below the tank level so they self prime.

That must be it. Right now pump is practically level with top of the engine.

Extreedoc said:
When you say 1/3rd full, is the tank 1/3rd full or is that just what the gauge says? Might be that the tank level is lower and the gauge is fibbing.

Always when I fill completely fuel gauge shows at 3/4. I go by km driven which is typically 240 km. I think my estimation of 1/3 left is correct because when I filled it up it had room for only 2/3 of the tank.

Marjon I couldn't quote your message in edit. Thanks for pointing it out.

Based on your comments I think I should lower the pump. There was a ready to use bracket there with holes ready drilled into it, so we didn't argue with destiny. Now it has to change.

10000 times thanks everybody for your input.

Changing fuel pump

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