Changing 4x4

My son has asked me for advice and wonder if anyone here could help with
suggestions.
I have a 110 2.25 hardtop. He has a Jeep Cherokee 4.0L auto, which is
reliable and he likes the image of.
He does a lot of miles towing, and takes a trailer up mountains where
the Jeep is necessary. He works in N. London and uses the vehicle
locally when not on trips, getting about 9 to 15 mpg.
He is suddenly in a situation where he still needs the 4x4, is still
doing the local mileage, but is having to add regular visits to a friend
who is paralysed in hospital.
He doesn't want the hassle of gas conversion and has been asking me
whether he should look for a diesel Defender or a Mitsubishi diesel
pickup thing with the big cab which he knows of and which might be for
sale soon.
I've been saying that I think the Defender would be a bit too crude and
I'm not sure about the mpg, and that I have read that these pickups are
a bit crude too. Not sure whether these pickups have as long wheelbase
as they look, and whether this would make manoeuvring with the trailer
difficult. I've been saying Disco to him, but he seems to think it's
not quite his image (you know what young people are like).

What mpg should he expect with these various vehicles? He doesn't have
any money to spare.

Any observations gratefully received.
--
Bill Holt

well, a diesel defender's mpg would be around 20. a disco would be a little higher, maybe in the 25-30mpg kind of area. the various pick uos are not much better, also averaging about the same as a disco.

~hope this helps~
Rob

I know this is a Landrover group and so I am supposed to be biased
towards them...but I will be impartial!

Having driven our work Mitsi L200 pickup & Nissan Teranno (3.0 Litre
Diesel) and my own Defender 90 (that is 10 years older!!!) I would
consider it to be a very easy decision.

Go buy a Defender, however old - Consider a 200Tdi and a 300Tdi as the
same engine - technically they are not but as far as driving them is
concerned they are. Both are very easy to work on yourself. TD5s are
more refined, a bit more powerful, and will need a trip to a garage
should anything ECU related crop up, they are also a bit more
expensive!

For me the deciding factors are these:
1. A defender has 4 coil springs, most of the others dont and
this make a massive difference to the road manners and also helps on
the off-road stuff.
2. Engine torque - Defenders have bags of it low down so
driving them is very relaxed. The Japense offerings tend to have big
turbos on old designed engines, once they are spinning they are OK but
waiting for it to cut in around town can be painful.

The only downside to a Defender is this - they are not as high geared
as either a Disco or the Japanese offerings so arent as fast on the
road and / or engin noise is greater for an equivelant speed in the
others. This though is easily resolved, buy a TDi rather than a TD5
and with the money you save, take a trip to Ashcrofts and have the
gearing altered in the Transfer box.

M'mm... that means there are no disadvantages to a Defender.

Buy a Defender, he will grow to love it and it will rot away before he
chooses to sell it and still be worth more than a Jap effort!

Re-reading above it seems as though I have lost my impartiality
somewhere along the way...Defenders Rock!

Just my two-penneth!
Jon


On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:43:57 +0100, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>My son has asked me for advice and wonder if anyone here could help with
>suggestions.
>I have a 110 2.25 hardtop. He has a Jeep Cherokee 4.0L auto, which is
>reliable and he likes the image of.
>He does a lot of miles towing, and takes a trailer up mountains where
>the Jeep is necessary. He works in N. London and uses the vehicle
>locally when not on trips, getting about 9 to 15 mpg.
>He is suddenly in a situation where he still needs the 4x4, is still
>doing the local mileage, but is having to add regular visits to a friend
>who is paralysed in hospital.
>He doesn't want the hassle of gas conversion and has been asking me
>whether he should look for a diesel Defender or a Mitsubishi diesel
>pickup thing with the big cab which he knows of and which might be for
>sale soon.
>I've been saying that I think the Defender would be a bit too crude and
>I'm not sure about the mpg, and that I have read that these pickups are
>a bit crude too. Not sure whether these pickups have as long wheelbase
>as they look, and whether this would make manoeuvring with the trailer
>difficult. I've been saying Disco to him, but he seems to think it's
>not quite his image (you know what young people are like).
>
>What mpg should he expect with these various vehicles? He doesn't have
>any money to spare.
>
>Any observations gratefully received.

In message <[email protected]>, Jon
<[email protected]> writes
>Go buy a Defender, however old - Consider a 200Tdi and a 300Tdi as the
>same engine - technically they are not but as far as driving them is
>concerned they are. Both are very easy to work on yourself. TD5s are
>more refined, a bit more powerful, and will need a trip to a garage
>should anything ECU related crop up, they are also a bit more expensive!

What sort of mpg should he expect with a diesel Defender? I get about
23mpg with my old 2.25 petrol, but he does alternate between driving in
London and trips to the Lake District. He also drives in, shall we say,
a rather younger style than I do. How would a Defender and Disco compare
at a steady 70?

His Jeep has leather, aircon, all the works. My old, much-loved 110 has
unpowered steering, and no modern appointments such as headlining,
although the spiders are knitting a rather fine replacement. I'm not
certain he (or perhaps his lady friends) could cope with the culture
shock.

Thanks!
--
Bill Holt

Bill,
you cant do anything about the culture shock!!

As for mpg - you can reliably get as little as about 19mpg if you
drive it hard and silly but if you drive them in your socks at no more
than 65-70ish you should reach about 30mpg.

Jon


On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:41:26 +0100, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>, Jon
><[email protected]> writes
>>Go buy a Defender, however old - Consider a 200Tdi and a 300Tdi as the
>>same engine - technically they are not but as far as driving them is
>>concerned they are. Both are very easy to work on yourself. TD5s are
>>more refined, a bit more powerful, and will need a trip to a garage
>>should anything ECU related crop up, they are also a bit more expensive!
>
>What sort of mpg should he expect with a diesel Defender? I get about
>23mpg with my old 2.25 petrol, but he does alternate between driving in
>London and trips to the Lake District. He also drives in, shall we say,
>a rather younger style than I do. How would a Defender and Disco compare
>at a steady 70?
>
>His Jeep has leather, aircon, all the works. My old, much-loved 110 has
>unpowered steering, and no modern appointments such as headlining,
>although the spiders are knitting a rather fine replacement. I'm not
>certain he (or perhaps his lady friends) could cope with the culture
>shock.
>
>Thanks!

Bill wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Jon
> <[email protected]> writes
>
>> Go buy a Defender, however old - Consider a 200Tdi and a 300Tdi as the
>> same engine - technically they are not but as far as driving them is
>
> What sort of mpg should he expect with a diesel Defender? I get about

Hi, the defender below is an early Tdi does average about 28mpg, I keep
trying to work out what sort of difference between motorway crusing and
windy little roads but haven't really got an answer, I don't fill up
accurately enough for that. Does 70 fine on the motorway, isn't quite as
noisy as its predecessors but not by much, nosier than a disco.

Regards

Alistair
--
200Tdi Defender 90, 1990

In article <[email protected]>, V890
<[email protected]> writes
>
>well, a diesel defender's mpg would be around 20. a disco would be a
>little higher, maybe in the 25-30mpg kind of area. the various pick uos
>are not much better, also averaging about the same as a disco.
>
>~hope this helps~
>Rob
>
>

An average of around 20mpg on a defender would be low enough to indicate
either a lot of towing or low gear work or fast motorway driving. Other
users average as high as 30mpg. I've averaged about 28mpg overall on 110
station Wagon. I used to average 18.5mpg on my old 2.25 Petrol Series
lll LWB SW. I'd be very disappointed with 20mpg on a 200/300TDi
Defender.
--
John Lubran

>> What sort of mpg should he expect with a diesel Defender? I get about >

Not sure about defender, but I have recently done a 2000 mile journey
touring Scotland. Had a mixture of motorway 60-80mph and twisting hilly
sightseeing roads. Kept accurate records and averaged 27mpg in an auto
Discovery TD5.

Martin
04 Disco TD5
86 RRC 3.5 EFI
88 RRC 3.5 EFI

"Moving Vision" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, V890
> <[email protected]> writes
> >
> >well, a diesel defender's mpg would be around 20. a disco would be a
> >little higher, maybe in the 25-30mpg kind of area. the various pick uos
> >are not much better, also averaging about the same as a disco.
> >
> >~hope this helps~
> >Rob
> >
> >
>
> An average of around 20mpg on a defender would be low enough to indicate
> either a lot of towing or low gear work or fast motorway driving. Other
> users average as high as 30mpg. I've averaged about 28mpg overall on 110
> station Wagon. I used to average 18.5mpg on my old 2.25 Petrol Series
> lll LWB SW. I'd be very disappointed with 20mpg on a 200/300TDi
> Defender.
> --
Hi,
Who has got money to spare! My son rides around in an old Astra and is
just grateful to be insured and on the road. When your paying over a Grand
insurance who gives a Toss about MPG and Image. If your worried about MPG
get a small car not a 4X4..
Put a tenners worth in and when it runs out put another tenners worth
in(unless your off on a day trip then twenty quids worth) that's how it
works up here in Yorkshire sod the mileage.
Clip him round the lug and tell him to be grateful for what he's got is the
best answer.

Adrian Ford

In message <[email protected]>, Adrian Ford
<[email protected]> writes
>My son rides around in an old Astra and is just grateful to be insured
>and on the road.
I'm very grateful for all the contributions but I will exclude the old
Astra when I average out the mpg's.
It's worth saying perhaps that my son has served his time. He and I have
been hammer in hand as the tide came in at the end of a tidal causeway
with his Panda 4x4 and a stuck starter motor. I think in the end we
risked the hands going through the rust and pushed.

I'm so old that he has now reached the age where he needs a reliable,
capable vehicle. His work involves the hills, the trailer and the M1
runs, and when he hit single figure mpg's and had to do a lot of local
miles he started to notice the number of tenners he was using.

The info so far has been just what I hoped for. I can now give him a
serious talking to when he rings on Sunday.
--
Bill Holt

In message <[email protected]>
V890 <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> well, a diesel defender's mpg would be around 20. a disco would be a
> little higher, maybe in the 25-30mpg kind of area. the various pick uos
> are not much better, also averaging about the same as a disco.
>
> ~hope this helps~
> Rob
>
>

Which engine are we talking about - the 2.5TD probably does around
24-25 mpg, a 200/300Tdi would be around 28/30 mpg - in 175,00 miles
I not noticed much difference between thrashing it on the motorway
(90 mph) or delivering round the Peaks lanes. Discovery's seem to do
around 1-3 more mpg, but would appear more sensitive to driving
style, and the auto seems to be quite a lot thirstier.

As for the original post - comparing Defender to the Jeep is not
a straight comparison - Jeep to Discovery is more so. The Discovery
has far more room inside - who knows, he may even be able to dispense
with the trailer (assuming it not for cannoe's or something).

Street cred? That's go to be Defender - even Clarkson and co.
rate it as coolest ride (though I'm not sure thats ncesserily a Good
Thing).


Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

In message <e5bfd97c4d%[email protected]>, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> writes
>As for the original post - comparing Defender to the Jeep is not a
>straight comparison - Jeep to Discovery is more so. The Discovery has
>far more room inside - who knows, he may even be able to dispense with
>the trailer (assuming it not for cannoe's or something).

30 mountain bikes. The reason he was looking at the Mitsubishi thing was
that he thought it might take some bikes for smaller trips and dispense
with the trailer. Often the trailer is towed by an accompanying minibus,
but the Jeep has been essential as a general sort of transport/rescue
vehicle. None of this is his real job, just a part-time activity. It's
very worthwhile and rewarding, but to him costly. At 80% tax, 9mpg is a
killer. Don't start me off about chauffeur driven ministers thinking
they will swan along the multi-occupancy car lanes, leaving people doing
real things paying more and more tax to fund a European satellite system
as they sit in the resulting queues.

I know very little about these Jap pickups, not even whether they have
low-range or not. He seems quite keen on this, but my gut feeling is
that he should be thinking Disco instead.

We know about the failings of the Jeep eg not even room for a proper
spare wheel. We also know that I feel as if I've done a real journey
when I drive across Wales and back in my pre-Defender 110.
--
Bill Holt

yes obviously, it depends on the type on engine, the reason i said what i said for a diesel defender is cos i run a petrol V8 in mine, so i know for a fact mine does 15 mpg when on the road, and 12 when offroading using massive cluch openings....

On 2005-06-17, Alistair Bell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi, the defender below is an early Tdi does average about 28mpg, I keep
> trying to work out what sort of difference between motorway crusing and
> windy little roads but haven't really got an answer

I am getting measurements of about 28 MPG from my Fearns intercooler
equipped 300Tdi Defender, sometimes it's come up as close to 40 MPG I
can't quite believe that.

If he's style conscious, what could be better than a ragtop defender
with big black rollover bars driven around roofless in the summer!
It's better than a bodykitted Nova at any rate...

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

As a continental driver ( Def 90 , TD5 , 2004 ) I can give you
the following figures:
- up to 100 km/h : 10 litres ( per 100km )
- beyond : 13 litres

The Def does 130 km/h max , but gets very noisy beyond 100 km/h ;
acceleration is surprisingly good , as is behaviour on road !
Off road : excellent .
So , the only "negatives" I experienced : noisy at higher speed, very
difficult to get the interior to warm , a few drops of water coming in
from somewhere in the front .
Done 27 000 km in 2 y , and loved it !

All the best ! h



V890 wrote:
> yes obviously, it depends on the type on engine, the reason i said what
> i said for a diesel defender is cos i run a petrol V8 in mine, so i
> know for a fact mine does 15 mpg when on the road, and 12 when
> offroading using massive cluch openings....
>
>
> --
> V890
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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