Changed tyres and now have occasional 'death wobble'

tobyd · Jun 21, 2015

Hi,

I have recently changed the tyres on my series 1 pick-up that has a LWB later series (early 3 I think).

Since then I am now getting and occasional wobble as if the front wheel is coming loose that I now know is called the 'death wobble'.

Having read a number of posts it seems it can just about be anything in the steering linkage but just wondered whether it could be just the front tyre pressure?

I made a 50 mile round trip in it today and the wobble happened about 4 times all started by potholes (once while under braking).

Any advice would be great.

Cheers Toby

honolulujoe · Jun 21, 2015

first thing I would check is the wheel nuts, I nearly lost a rear wheel on my s1, they can work loose, I had two nuts left so had to rob a couple off the other wheels to get home

tobyd · Jun 21, 2015

honolulujoe said:
first thing I would check is the wheel nuts, I nearly lost a rear wheel on my s1, they can work loose, I had two nuts left so had to rob a couple off the other wheels to get home

All tight and present. Only loose item was one of the clamps for a TRE that I have tightened today.

Land Raver · Jun 21, 2015

I think I would turn my attention to the swivel pin adjustment / check for wear. Perhaps the Railko bush is worn.

tobyd · Jun 21, 2015

Land Raver said:
I think I would turn my attention to the swivel pin adjustment / check for wear. Perhaps the Railko bush is worn.

That does seem a popular suggestion - just was hoping for a quick fix with it only starting after the tyres were changed (also not up on all the swivel stuff!)

cheers

Land Raver · Jun 21, 2015

The swivels aren't complicated but can be time consuming to rebuild. You might get away with just adjusting / removing a couple of shims. It's always best to check the simple things first though like wheel nuts and steering ball joints.

tobyd · Jun 21, 2015

Land Raver said:
The swivels aren't complicated but can be time consuming to rebuild. You might get away with just adjusting / removing a couple of shims. It's always best to check the simple things first though like wheel nuts and steering ball joints.

Yes ball joints might be worth replacing. Is there a simple way of telling if one is on the way out?

Krazykev · Jun 21, 2015

If it's only happened since having the wheel off to change the tyres I would remove it again &I check there's nothing sticking out like a drum retaining screw. Make sure the drum is seated with a mallet & then I'd clean the back of the wheel & face of the drum. It seems strange this only happened after the wheels have been taken off for tyres

Blackburn · Jun 22, 2015

Are they new tyres or second hand could be a damaged tyre.
Check steering relay arms are tight , has oil in it and is not moving in chassis.
Best get an assistant to rock the steering wheel whilst you look at all the steering components for slackness.
Railco bushes can be checked by jacking wheel off ground and pulling base of wheel outwards should be a little movement but not a lot . If you get movement get the assistant to apply the brakes if movement goes away it is wheel bearings.
If you have replaced a track rod end check the tracking is correct?

honolulujoe · Jun 22, 2015

what is the death wobble anyway?

is it as serious as it sounds?

dominicbeesley · Jun 22, 2015

Check the steering arm to swivel at the bottom, I've had stretched pins in there that repeatedly worked loose but the lock tabs stopped them coming out completely.

Also, as mentioned elsewhere check that the drums are seated correctly - that means taking them off and checking there's no crap between them and the hub...clean them nicely, re-seat with a mallet and then nip up with the set screws before refitting the wheel.

It could just be as simple as a dodgy hub bearing or any one of the many TRE's or steering box/relay.

When checking steering a big solid breaker bar or similar is worth placing under each jacked up wheel and see if you can get movement by swinging on it. Also with the opposite wheel on the floor give the jacked up wheel a hug and try and writhe it side to side...just don't pull the car down on your foot - you look like a right pillock with a trapped foot when you can't reach the jack it's just jumped off!

Finally, did you get the wheels balanced. Landy wheels need a LOT of weights attached to get them balanced.

Finally tracking is always worth checking - I do it myself now as every garage / tyre "specialist" I've taken it to have adjusted it completely wrong. An assistant, flat floor, couple of tippex dots on the tyres and a tape measure are all that is required push Landy back two full turns of the wheels and measure between dots at back then another half turn and measure at the front and check the difference. You're aiming for the distance to be ~2mm _greater_ at the back. Otherwise you'll get tyre wear, too much toe in will cause vague steering and understeer, toe out will make it tend to feel like it is understeering and then suddenly veer off as the weight shifts from one wheel to the other.

When all set up well and adjusted correctly Landy steering should be light and not wander at all when driving.

tobyd · Jun 22, 2015

Thanks for all the help. Now you mention the drum I did have a problem getting the screw in so will try there first.
Damaged my wrist at the weekend so will be a few days before I can try

mrchurchill109 · Jun 23, 2015

If you want a fairly comprehensive write-up on the subject, have a look at:

Tutorial: Curing Deathwobble (steering oscillations) In The Series LR

I docmented this a few years ago when friends had a spate of the issue and I got tired of repeating myself.

Alan

Land Raver · Jun 23, 2015

I can confirm that 'death wobble' ca indeed be very dangerous. I had the same thing happen to me on a Raleigh Chopper cycling down a steep hill at about 40mph. Hit and small pot hole and the small front wheel went into an uncontrollable wobble. I ended up crashing into a ditch and having stitches in my forehead! I was very young at the time and it hurt! Lincoln hospital was very good though.

tobyd · Jun 23, 2015

Land Raver said:
I can confirm that 'death wobble' ca indeed be very dangerous. I had the same thing happen to me on a Raleigh Chopper cycling down a steep hill at about 40mph. Hit and small pot hole and the small front wheel went into an uncontrollable wobble. I ended up crashing into a ditch and having stitches in my forehead! I was very young at the time and it hurt! Lincoln hospital was very good though.

And crashing on the chopper also often resulted in the trendy looking gear shifter catching you right in the nuts!

Land Raver · Jun 23, 2015

tobyd said:
And crashing on the chopper also often resulted in the trendy looking gear shifter catching you right in the nuts!

You're not wrong! Had that a few times when the gears slipped and resistance went from the pedals leaving me crushing my undercarriage on the offending cross bar and gear shift. [emoji16]

tobyd · Jun 26, 2015

Thanks for all your help.
Did turn out to be the drum that wasn't seated properly after the tyres were swapped.

Land Raver · Jun 26, 2015

Glad it's sorted but the drums should be held on by a retaining screw or two, not just the wheel. Are these missing?

tobyd · Jun 27, 2015

Land Raver said:
Glad it's sorted but the drums should be held on by a retaining screw or two, not just the wheel. Are these missing?

There is one but it was loose allowing the fit not to be flush.

nickjaxe · Jun 28, 2015

So have you gone to a bigger heavier wheel???sounds like you have.

Prob as others have said magnified the effects of wear in the swivels.

Nick.

Changed tyres and now have occasional 'death wobble'

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