Centrifugal oil filter

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F

fanie

Guest
Greetings all

I have just had a question from a mate with a TD5 Disco II about the
certrifugal oil filter and more specifically the maintenance thereof.

The only thing I know is that it is meant to work in conjunction with a
normal filter to help extend the service intervals.

Does anyone out there have any other insight into these?

Regards
Stephen


 
Don't know the intervals for a Discovery, but you can ask the dealer or find
it in the maintenance manual.
For a Defender are the service intervals:
every 20.000 km replacement of the centrifugal filter
every 60.000 km replacement of the oil filter
Figures are for 'normal'use.
I change the centrifugal filter every 15000 and the oil filter every 30000
km

regards
Fred
Defender 130

"fanie" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Greetings all
>
> I have just had a question from a mate with a TD5 Disco II about the
> certrifugal oil filter and more specifically the maintenance thereof.
>
> The only thing I know is that it is meant to work in conjunction with a
> normal filter to help extend the service intervals.
>
> Does anyone out there have any other insight into these?
>
> Regards
> Stephen
>
>


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In message <[email protected]>
"fanie" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Greetings all
>
> I have just had a question from a mate with a TD5 Disco II about the
> certrifugal oil filter and more specifically the maintenance thereof.
>
> The only thing I know is that it is meant to work in conjunction with a
> normal filter to help extend the service intervals.
>
> Does anyone out there have any other insight into these?
>
> Regards
> Stephen
>
>

Increasing service intervals is part of the plan, but the main
thing is to remove impurities down to three microns from the
fuel to allow far more accurate injectors - all part of the
battle to meet emissions regulations.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Increasing service intervals is part of the plan, but the main
> thing is to remove impurities down to three microns from the
> fuel to allow far more accurate injectors - all part of the
> battle to meet emissions regulations.
>
> Richard

I think you may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. The
centrifugal filter is in the oil circuit not fuel.
Someone else said that it needs replacing at certain intervals. AFAIK
it only needs cleaning.

Huw


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"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I think you may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. The
> centrifugal filter is in the oil circuit not fuel.
> Someone else said that it needs replacing at certain intervals. AFAIK
> it only needs cleaning.
>
> Huw

The centrifugal filter is a replacement-only filter, no cleanable, and needs
changing every 12,000 miles (20,000 km) according to the LR schedules. The
'standard' full-flow filter is then changed every 36,000 miles ().

The centrifugal filter removes particles of between 3 and 15 microns in
diameter (the normal filter catches everything above 15 microns), and only
receives 10% of the oil flow from the pump, the other 90% passes through the
full-flow filter and the oil cooler matrix.

It works by using two jets of oil in the base of the filter cartridge to
spin the centrifuge at up to 15,000 rpm. The inner surface of the rotor
cartridge captures the particles as oil is thrown against the walls by the
centrifugal force, and builds up a sludge.

Martin
--
1988 90 Td5 NAS Replica
www.web-rover.co.uk


 
Martin Lewis wrote:
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I think you may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. The
>> centrifugal filter is in the oil circuit not fuel.
>> Someone else said that it needs replacing at certain intervals.
AFAIK
>> it only needs cleaning.
>>
>> Huw
>
> The centrifugal filter is a replacement-only filter, no cleanable,
> and needs changing every 12,000 miles (20,000 km) according to the
LR
> schedules. The 'standard' full-flow filter is then changed every
> 36,000 miles ().
>
> The centrifugal filter removes particles of between 3 and 15 microns
> in diameter (the normal filter catches everything above 15 microns),
> and only receives 10% of the oil flow from the pump, the other 90%
> passes through the full-flow filter and the oil cooler matrix.
>
> It works by using two jets of oil in the base of the filter
cartridge
> to spin the centrifuge at up to 15,000 rpm. The inner surface of the
> rotor cartridge captures the particles as oil is thrown against the
> walls by the centrifugal force, and builds up a sludge.
>

Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring is
replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5 centrifuge
myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters from the same
manufacturer and the only service needed is the removal of sludge and
dirt residue. There are no routinely replaceable filter media in the
ones I have seen.
If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be greatful if
you could post a description. I take an interest in such things for no
good reason. Sad!

Huw


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Thanks for the input. I shall pass the info onto said mate.
Regards
Stephen


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Increasing service intervals is part of the plan, but the main
> > thing is to remove impurities down to three microns from the
> > fuel to allow far more accurate injectors - all part of the
> > battle to meet emissions regulations.
> >
> > Richard
>
> I think you may have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. The
> centrifugal filter is in the oil circuit not fuel.

Indeed - two mails on the screen at the same time! Oops...

> Someone else said that it needs replacing at certain intervals. AFAIK
> it only needs cleaning.

If I remember right one should be changed every 12,000, one every
60,000 - I can't just find teh appropriate book to say which is which!

Richard

>
> Huw
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring is
> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5 centrifuge
> myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters from the same
> manufacturer and the only service needed is the removal of sludge and
> dirt residue. There are no routinely replaceable filter media in the
> ones I have seen.
> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be greatful if
> you could post a description. I take an interest in such things for no
> good reason. Sad!
>
> Huw

Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's part number
ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.

I haven't got a photo of it on my website, but I've found one on disco2.com:
http://www.disco2.com/tech/td5engine/#oilf

The cartridge is the bit inside the alloy pot in the top photo in the Oil
filter section. It's got 6 radial depressions in it, a hole through the
middle through which the post it rotates about goes through, and a pair of
nozzles underneath at an obtuse angle to the base and the oil escaping from
these cause the filter to spin.

Oooh I've just found a photo of it being disassembled (japanese site):
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bhymd/110/maintenance/eg/td5filter.htm

By the look of the sludge it works quite well!

Martin
--
1988 90 Td5 NAS Replica
www.web-rover.co.uk


 

"> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring is
> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5 centrifuge
> myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters from the same
> manufacturer and the only service needed is the removal of sludge and
> dirt residue. There are no routinely replaceable filter media in the
> ones I have seen.
>
You surely don't expect a dealer mecha... sorry, 'technician' to get his
hands dirty cleaning something do you?

Looking at the pics on the jap site, all that is needed is to clean the
sludge out, there is, as you say, no actual filter media inside the
cartridge.


 
Martin Lewis wrote:
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring is
>> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5
centrifuge
>> myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters from the
same
>> manufacturer and the only service needed is the removal of sludge
and
>> dirt residue. There are no routinely replaceable filter media in
the
>> ones I have seen.
>> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be greatful
if
>> you could post a description. I take an interest in such things for
>> no good reason. Sad!
>>
>> Huw
>
> Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's part
> number ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.
>

Thanks for the links. ISTM though, that the part should be able to be
cleaned. Are you sure that it has to be changed or is the LR dealer
making a quick buck by selling new parts that are not needed?

Huw


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In message <[email protected]>
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> Martin Lewis wrote:
> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring is
> >> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5
> centrifuge
> >> myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters from the
> same
> >> manufacturer and the only service needed is the removal of sludge
> and
> >> dirt residue. There are no routinely replaceable filter media in
> the
> >> ones I have seen.
> >> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be greatful
> if
> >> you could post a description. I take an interest in such things for
> >> no good reason. Sad!
> >>
> >> Huw
> >
> > Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's part
> > number ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.
> >
>
> Thanks for the links. ISTM though, that the part should be able to be
> cleaned. Are you sure that it has to be changed or is the LR dealer
> making a quick buck by selling new parts that are not needed?
>
> Huw
>
>
It *definately* should be replaced at the specified interval.

Richard
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04
>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Martin Lewis wrote:
>>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring
is
>>>> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5
>>>> centrifuge myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters
>>>> from the same manufacturer and the only service needed is the
>>>> removal of sludge and dirt residue. There are no routinely
>>>> replaceable filter media in the ones I have seen.
>>>> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be
greatful
>>>> if you could post a description. I take an interest in such
things
>>>> for no good reason. Sad!
>>>>
>>>> Huw
>>>
>>> Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's part
>>> number ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the links. ISTM though, that the part should be able to
be
>> cleaned. Are you sure that it has to be changed or is the LR dealer
>> making a quick buck by selling new parts that are not needed?
>>
>> Huw
>>
>>
> It *definately* should be replaced at the specified interval.
>

Being cynical and knowing that they can be made to be easily cleaned
and reused long term, I have to conclude that this situation is just a
profit opportunity for dealer and manufacturer.

Huw


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On or around Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:20:01 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Being cynical and knowing that they can be made to be easily cleaned
>and reused long term, I have to conclude that this situation is just a
>profit opportunity for dealer and manufacturer.

'course, it might be that they can't trust the dealers to do a proper job of
cleaning it...

there are other aspects, mind. By replacing it, presuming it's not
ridiculously expensive, you *know* it's clean and it takes, presumably,
quite a short time. The process of cleaning it inevitably takes longer and
may not be done correctly. Now if you're an enthusiast who does your own
servicing, you'll not count the time involved, and certainly not at main
dealer price rates. There are also health connotations, I expect - no doubt
the sludge is hazardous waste, which in a main dealer environment would in
theory have to be properly dealt with, though that's probably not a major
consideration.

I might draw an analogy with the filter screen unit from the bottom of a ZF
4-speed auto. The filter screen can, undoubtedly, be cleaned, but it's a
lot of faffing around, since it doesn't come apart, and involves washing it
with large amounts of more or less harmful solvent, and when done, you have
no actual guarantee that it's as clean as a new one. For the enthusiast,
it's worth playing with if he has the necessary solvent and time. in a
dealer environment, the extra time and material used would very quickly
outweigh the cost of a new screen (£25 retail, last time I got one).

 
In message <[email protected]>
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Martin Lewis wrote:
> >>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>> news:[email protected]...
> >>>> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring
> is
> >>>> replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5
> >>>> centrifuge myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal filters
> >>>> from the same manufacturer and the only service needed is the
> >>>> removal of sludge and dirt residue. There are no routinely
> >>>> replaceable filter media in the ones I have seen.
> >>>> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be
> greatful
> >>>> if you could post a description. I take an interest in such
> things
> >>>> for no good reason. Sad!
> >>>>
> >>>> Huw
> >>>
> >>> Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's part
> >>> number ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thanks for the links. ISTM though, that the part should be able to
> be
> >> cleaned. Are you sure that it has to be changed or is the LR dealer
> >> making a quick buck by selling new parts that are not needed?
> >>
> >> Huw
> >>
> >>
> > It *definately* should be replaced at the specified interval.
> >
>
> Being cynical and knowing that they can be made to be easily cleaned
> and reused long term, I have to conclude that this situation is just a
> profit opportunity for dealer and manufacturer.
>
> Huw
>

Well it's your engine........ ;-)

Richard

>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04
>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:45:39 +0200, "fanie" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Greetings all
>
>I have just had a question from a mate with a TD5 Disco II about the
>certrifugal oil filter and more specifically the maintenance thereof.
>
>The only thing I know is that it is meant to work in conjunction with a
>normal filter to help extend the service intervals.
>
>Does anyone out there have any other insight into these?
>
>Regards
>Stephen
>

I think about 10% of the oil circulating in the engine is bypassed
through the rotor. The rotor has to be raplaced every 10000 km, the
cartridge every 60000 km (on a Td5 Defender). You can work the miles
out for yerself.

Peter R.
 
On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 07:48:44 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Fri, 8 Oct 2004 21:20:01 +0100, "Huw"
><hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>Being cynical and knowing that they can be made to be easily cleaned
>>and reused long term, I have to conclude that this situation is just a
>>profit opportunity for dealer and manufacturer.
>
>'course, it might be that they can't trust the dealers to do a proper job of
>cleaning it...
>
>there are other aspects, mind. By replacing it, presuming it's not
>ridiculously expensive, you *know* it's clean and it takes, presumably,
>quite a short time. The process of cleaning it inevitably takes longer and
>may not be done correctly. Now if you're an enthusiast who does your own
>servicing, you'll not count the time involved, and certainly not at main
>dealer price rates. There are also health connotations, I expect - no doubt
>the sludge is hazardous waste, which in a main dealer environment would in
>theory have to be properly dealt with, though that's probably not a major
>consideration.
>

There's lots of Special Waste generated in car dealerships and they
have to have proper means of disposal. This generally means a
commercial waste company collects it on a milk-round basis and then
ships it to a Special Waste Transfer Station. There's lots of
paperwork with the Environment Agency to deal with as part of this
process.

I don't know for sure but I'd be surprised if any of the fluids from a
car service/repair were anything but Special Waste. On July 16th the
new Landfill Regs came into play and the cost of Special Waste
disposal quadrupled overnight. That is, of itself, an argument to
reuse filters rather than put them in the ground. It is also, BTW, a
very good reason to spend a lot of money on a system for waste
tracking to drive a waste reduction programme.

www.bartec-systems.com/wastemanagement

But I digress of course...

:)


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> beamendsltd wrote:
>>> In message <[email protected]>
>>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin Lewis wrote:
>>>>> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Are you *absolutely* sure that anything other than the 'o' ring
>>>>>> is replaced? I ask because although I have not serviced a TD5
>>>>>> centrifuge myself, I have serviced industrial centrifugal
filters
>>>>>> from the same manufacturer and the only service needed is the
>>>>>> removal of sludge and dirt residue. There are no routinely
>>>>>> replaceable filter media in the ones I have seen.
>>>>>> If you have actually changed a media in a TD5, I would be
>>>>>> greatful if you could post a description. I take an interest in
>>>>>> such things for no good reason. Sad!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huw
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, you have to change the centrifuge cartridge itself, it's
part
>>>>> number ERR6299 and comes with the o-ring as well.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the links. ISTM though, that the part should be able
to
>>>> be cleaned. Are you sure that it has to be changed or is the LR
>>>> dealer making a quick buck by selling new parts that are not
>>>> needed?
>>>>
>>>> Huw
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It *definately* should be replaced at the specified interval.
>>>
>>
>> Being cynical and knowing that they can be made to be easily
cleaned
>> and reused long term, I have to conclude that this situation is
just
>> a profit opportunity for dealer and manufacturer.
>>
>> Huw
>>
>
> Well it's your engine........ ;-)
>
> Richard

Most of the ones I have actually worked with just come apart to be
easily wiped clean with a paper towel. The residue varies from sludgy
to near solid.
It is not just used on engines, it is also used on transmissions to
excellent effect.

Huw


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On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:20:08 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>Most of the ones I have actually worked with just come apart to be
>easily wiped clean with a paper towel. The residue varies from sludgy
>to near solid.
>It is not just used on engines, it is also used on transmissions to
>excellent effect.

If they use bypass oil (from the pressure limiter?) can they be retro
fitted?

AJH
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 10:20:08 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Most of the ones I have actually worked with just come apart to be
>> easily wiped clean with a paper towel. The residue varies from
sludgy
>> to near solid.
>> It is not just used on engines, it is also used on transmissions to
>> excellent effect.
>
> If they use bypass oil (from the pressure limiter?) can they be
retro
> fitted?
>
> AJH

The ones I know of have all been factory fitted. If there is a version
for remote mounting then I can see no reason why such a thing cannot
be retrofitted. You may know that they have a disconcerting noise on
shutdown, rather like a jet engine shutting down only quieter. Lovely
things as far as efficiency and operating cost goes, unless they are
the Land Rover version apparently.

Huw


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