burning out points.

Good morning.

i managed to get a second-hand exhaust manifold ($88) for my 6cyl series 3,
fitted it but it leaked out the manifold. got it resurfaced ($100) and
fitted it this morning. now the exhaust system doesn't leak, but my spark is
farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2 months
ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and the points
surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas distributor.
i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and no spark on 2
cyls.

what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i have a
new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on the
dizzy cap look pretty good.

how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??

getting very bloody fed-up with this stupid machine, however, part of the
problem is my ignorance and reluctance to pay someone to fix it for me!!!

Sam.

"Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i have
> a
> new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on the
> dizzy cap look pretty good.
>
> how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
> quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??

Yes! This I believe will be the root of your problem.

Check also that the shaft doesn't have too much slack as this to will give
poor points gap with variations as the shaft moves.

Your email has reminded me soo much about how much I hate points! You would
do will to fit a lumination kit.

As for the odd sparking on various cylinders , dizzy caps could be suspect
or the leads. I know you said you have new leads but try rotating them (the
ones that will reach) fo another cylinder. I got a full set of leads for the
101.. I'd say I've now replaced about 3 in less than 1000 miles due to
failure.

Lee D

Samuel wrote:

> Good morning.
>
> i managed to get a second-hand exhaust manifold ($88) for my 6cyl series
> 3, fitted it but it leaked out the manifold. got it resurfaced ($100) and
> fitted it this morning. now the exhaust system doesn't leak, but my spark
> is farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2
> months ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and
> the points surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas
> distributor. i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and
> no spark on 2 cyls.
>
> what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i have
> a new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on
> the dizzy cap look pretty good.
>
> how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
> quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??
>
> getting very bloody fed-up with this stupid machine, however, part of the
> problem is my ignorance and reluctance to pay someone to fix it for me!!!
>
> Sam.
The possible reasons for points burning, some of which you have checked:-
1. Condenser
2. Wrong coil - if you have a 'sports' coil or one which is designed for a
ballast resistor and you don't have a ballast resistor, the higher than
design current can cause short life. (rarely a faulty coil will do it too)
3. Traces of oil or grease on the contacts. This will do it every time.
4. Bad voltage regulator allowing the alternator to run at excessive
voltage. Unlikely, as you would expect blowing bulbs to be common as well.
5. Incorrect points gap, and as Lee pointed out, wear on the shaft or
bushes. Also wear on the platform that holds the points and rotates with
vacuum advance will give inconsistent gap.

If the spark is inconsistent on specific cylinders this points to either the
distributor cap, or it could point to a worn shaft or cam that is giving
very little opening of the points on those cylinders.
JD

On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:05:23 +1000, "Samuel"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>my spark is
>farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2 months
>ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and the points
>surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas distributor.
>i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and no spark on 2
>cyls.
>
>what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i have a
>new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on the
>dizzy cap look pretty good.

generally that's the condensor/capacitor - check that it's really a good'un,
dud new ones have been known. Try another. ISTR that one point (ho ho)
about the condensor is to reduce arcing on the points as they open. Is the
coil correct? I suppose a coil drawing too much current (ballast coil on a
non-ballast system, say) could cause problems.

>how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
>quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??

wouldn't think so, but too-small gap can cause erratic spraks in a worn
dizzy.

I'm assuming that you've already replaced the dizzy cap and leads with good
items...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.

On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:13:53 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>As for the odd sparking on various cylinders , dizzy caps could be suspect
>or the leads. I know you said you have new leads but try rotating them (the
>ones that will reach) fo another cylinder. I got a full set of leads for the
>101.. I'd say I've now replaced about 3 in less than 1000 miles due to
>failure.

WRT the V8 (and indeed any engines) the hype about Magencor leads is not all
hype. Put a set on one of mine, and they're definitely better. Also, the
quality of the components on the ends is much superior.


re: lumenition - on a 4-cylinder rover you can fit the lucas 45D4 electronic
dizzy as used on the later O series engines (marina, early rover 820, sherpa
1700/2000 petrol) which is a good mod. Dunno if there's a 6-cylinder
equivalent swap... what dizzy did the SD1 6-cylinder engines use?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WRT the V8 (and indeed any engines) the hype about Magencor leads is not
> all
> hype. Put a set on one of mine, and they're definitely better. Also, the
> quality of the components on the ends is much superior.

Pretty high on my wish list for Morph, just wish they weren't so dammed
expensive but I guess that says something about them.

Lee D

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:05:23 +1000, "Samuel"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >my spark is
> >farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2
months
> >ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and the
points
> >surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas
distributor.
> >i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and no spark on
2
> >cyls.
> >
> >what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i
have a

Hi,
Happened to me a few years ago it was the coil at fault. I put fitted a
high tension coil instead of a low tension coil and within about twenty
minutes of the engine running burnt the points out.

Have you replaced the coil or have you had it running ok with coil that your
using now?

Adrian Ford

On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:08:50 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> WRT the V8 (and indeed any engines) the hype about Magencor leads is not
>> all
>> hype. Put a set on one of mine, and they're definitely better. Also, the
>> quality of the components on the ends is much superior.
>
>Pretty high on my wish list for Morph, just wish they weren't so dammed
>expensive but I guess that says something about them.

I thought that too, but having seen the quality they're easily 3 times as
good as the crappy ones you get for 1/3 the money.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 10:05:23 +1000, "Samuel"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >my spark is
> >farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2
months
> >ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and the
points
> >surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas
distributor.
> >i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and no spark on
2
> >cyls.
> >
> >what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i
have a
> >new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on the
> >dizzy cap look pretty good.
>
> generally that's the condensor/capacitor - check that it's really a
good'un,
> dud new ones have been known. Try another. ISTR that one point (ho ho)
> about the condensor is to reduce arcing on the points as they open. Is
the
> coil correct? I suppose a coil drawing too much current (ballast coil on
a
> non-ballast system, say) could cause problems.
>
> >how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
> >quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??
>
> wouldn't think so, but too-small gap can cause erratic spraks in a worn
> dizzy.
>
> I'm assuming that you've already replaced the dizzy cap and leads with
good
> items...

well, i put a new set of points and condensor in yesterday afternoon and set
them properly with the feeler gauge i bought yesterday, and no luck. i
started switching leads around and trying a different coil. no difference.
then i tried switching the plugs, and BINGO. found the problem. put a new
set of plugs in this morning and she's running perfectly.

it seems that within the space of about 2 weeks of very sparse driving, two
of the spark plugs had gone from working perfectly, to not working at all
(and i mean not working AT ALL. not a single spark after about 30 seconds
with the timing gun). is this just an incredible coincidence, or something
more sinister??

Sam.

On or around Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:09:32 +1000, "Samuel"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>it seems that within the space of about 2 weeks of very sparse driving, two
>of the spark plugs had gone from working perfectly, to not working at all
>(and i mean not working AT ALL. not a single spark after about 30 seconds
>with the timing gun). is this just an incredible coincidence, or something
>more sinister??

took me ages once to trace a misfire on a car I had - one of a set of 4 new
plugs was faulty - "can't be the plugs, I've only just changed 'em".

Also had a rotor arm go from working to full-time not-working as a result of
developing a short from the top plate to the post inside - no visible
damage, just no sparks.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> took me ages once to trace a misfire on a car I had - one of a set of 4
> new
> plugs was faulty - "can't be the plugs, I've only just changed 'em".

Ditto that on the old Jag lump when I first started it up..I'd just set up
an electronic ignition too...blasted plugs!

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:13:53 +0100, "Lee_D"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>As for the odd sparking on various cylinders , dizzy caps could be suspect
>>or the leads. I know you said you have new leads but try rotating them
>>(the
>>ones that will reach) fo another cylinder. I got a full set of leads for
>>the
>>101.. I'd say I've now replaced about 3 in less than 1000 miles due to
>>failure.
>
> WRT the V8 (and indeed any engines) the hype about Magencor leads is not
> all
> hype. Put a set on one of mine, and they're definitely better. Also, the
> quality of the components on the ends is much superior.

And that's what makes the difference. Had a disco1 in the other day with an
intermittent acceleration misfire - hooked it up to the crypton and as you
floored the throttle quickly, you got an instantaneous random misfire on 3
out of 5 of the cylinders. The owner's comment was "but I just put new leads
on about a month ago", to which I said "yes, but with respect, you fitted
cheap and nasty crappy quality leads". It's the better quality of the
connectors (especially at the plug end) that seems to separate the good from
the bad. I do not simply believe that Magnecor leads are the be-all and
end-all of the issue, original genuine leads seem to last for quite a number
of years, it'll be interesting to see how the Magnecor's fare as they get
older.

>
> re: lumenition - on a 4-cylinder rover you can fit the lucas 45D4
> electronic
> dizzy as used on the later O series engines (marina, early rover 820,
> sherpa
> 1700/2000 petrol) which is a good mod. Dunno if there's a 6-cylinder
> equivalent swap... what dizzy did the SD1 6-cylinder engines use?

Are there any advance rate issues with doing that 4-cyl conversion, Austin?

Badger.

In news:[email protected],
Badger <[email protected]> typed:
| "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:[email protected]...
|| On or around Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:13:53 +0100, "Lee_D"
|| <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
||
|||
||| As for the odd sparking on various cylinders , dizzy caps could be
||| suspect or the leads. I know you said you have new leads but try
||| rotating them (the
||| ones that will reach) fo another cylinder. I got a full set of
||| leads for the
||| 101.. I'd say I've now replaced about 3 in less than 1000 miles due
||| to failure.
||
|| WRT the V8 (and indeed any engines) the hype about Magencor leads is
|| not all
|| hype. Put a set on one of mine, and they're definitely better.
|| Also, the quality of the components on the ends is much superior.
|
| And that's what makes the difference. Had a disco1 in the other day
| with an intermittent acceleration misfire - hooked it up to the
| crypton and as you floored the throttle quickly, you got an
| instantaneous random misfire on 3 out of 5 of the cylinders. The
| owner's comment was "but I just put new leads on about a month ago",
| to which I said "yes, but with respect, you fitted cheap and nasty
| crappy quality leads". It's the better quality of the connectors
| (especially at the plug end) that seems to separate the good from the
| bad. I do not simply believe that Magnecor leads are the be-all and
| end-all of the issue, original genuine leads seem to last for quite a
| number of years, it'll be interesting to see how the Magnecor's fare
| as they get older.
|
||
|| re: lumenition - on a 4-cylinder rover you can fit the lucas 45D4
|| electronic
|| dizzy as used on the later O series engines (marina, early rover 820,
|| sherpa
|| 1700/2000 petrol) which is a good mod. Dunno if there's a 6-cylinder
|| equivalent swap... what dizzy did the SD1 6-cylinder engines use?
|
| Are there any advance rate issues with doing that 4-cyl conversion,
| Austin?
|
| Badger.

Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they used in the
factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a few metres left.

Karen


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Karen Gallagher wrote:

> Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they used in the
> factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a few metres left.

Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not stupidly
priced either.


--
EMB

In news:[email protected],
EMB <[email protected]> typed:
| Karen Gallagher wrote:
|
|| Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they
|| used in the factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a
|| few metres left.
|
| Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
| cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
| inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not stupidly
| priced either.
|
|
| --
| EMB

Radio? In a series? I'd never hear it unless I had the engine turned off

Karen


--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Karen Gallagher wrote:
> In news:[email protected],
> EMB <[email protected]> typed:
> | Karen Gallagher wrote:
> |
> || Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they
> || used in the factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a
> || few metres left.
> |
> | Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
> | cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
> | inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not stupidly
> | priced either.
> |
> |
> | --
> | EMB
>
> Radio? In a series? I'd never hear it unless I had the engine turned off
>
Those that I travel in convoy with whinge

--
EMB

"Samuel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Good morning.
>
> i managed to get a second-hand exhaust manifold ($88) for my 6cyl series
3,
> fitted it but it leaked out the manifold. got it resurfaced ($100) and
> fitted it this morning. now the exhaust system doesn't leak, but my spark
is
> farked again. i put a new set of points and a condensor in it about 2
months
> ago and have done bugger all driving. had a look this morning and the
points
> surface doesn't look very nice at all. it is the standard lucas
distributor.
> i have consistent spark on 3 cyls, inconsistent on 1 cyl, and no spark on
2
> cyls.
>
> what could be causing the points to burn out so quick?? by the way, i have
a
> new set of leads, and the plugs are quite fresh, and the terminals on the
> dizzy cap look pretty good.
>
> how important is it to set the points gap correctly? will they burn out
> quicker if the gap is too big, or too small??
>
> getting very bloody fed-up with this stupid machine, however, part of the
> problem is my ignorance and reluctance to pay someone to fix it for me!!!
>
> Sam.
>
Change the condensor when they go wonky it often causes burnt points make
sure you have the correct value too or it will run badly.(thank god for
electronics) I concur with the view contactless systems are far superior and
there are plenty of alternative aftermarket sets if you dont trust "the
Prince of sudden unexplained Darkness" (Lucas)
Derek

Vader "come over to the darkside"
Skywalker "never I will stay true to Bosch"

On or around Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:17:03 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Karen Gallagher wrote:
>
>> Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they used in the
>> factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a few metres left.
>
>Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
>cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
>inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not stupidly
>priced either.

I've had bosch ones in this country from halfrauds, they were relatively
cheap and utter crap. Quite possible that there are better quality ones to
be had, though.

Champion Triple Silicone are not bad, but no-where near the quality of
magencor.

Mind, at the LRO show, not one of the major suppliers had brought leads,
magnecor or otherwise. Impressive eample of parallel thinking going wrong.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)

On or around Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:26:42 +1000, "Karen Gallagher"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In news:[email protected],
>EMB <[email protected]> typed:
>| Karen Gallagher wrote:
>|
>|| Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they
>|| used in the factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a
>|| few metres left.
>|
>| Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
>| cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
>| inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not stupidly
>| priced either.
>|
>|
>| --
>| EMB
>
>Radio? In a series? I'd never hear it unless I had the engine turned off

got one in mine. needs some better speakers.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)

In news:[email protected],
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> typed:
| On or around Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:26:42 +1000, "Karen Gallagher"
| <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
|
|| In news:[email protected],
|| EMB <[email protected]> typed:
||| Karen Gallagher wrote:
|||
|||| Call me old fashioned, but I STILL prefer copper leads - as they
|||| used in the factory when my S11a was made. And I still have quite a
|||| few metres left.
|||
||| Ditto. But not only do they play hell with the radio but they don't
||| cope with high-output coils well so I don't generally use them. The
||| inductive core Bosch leads work pretty well - and they're not
||| stupidly priced either.
|||
|||
||| --
||| EMB
||
|| Radio? In a series? I'd never hear it unless I had the engine turned
|| off
|
| got one in mine. needs some better speakers.
| --
| Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
| "For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
| something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination -
| we learned to talk." Pink Floyd (1994)

Me too. My German Shepherds ate one of the speakers a while back
They work OK when ticking over using the PTO, otherwise no point in having
it on if driving 'at speed' - or what passes for speed in a series.

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast